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Coaxial guns

Kill wheeled scouts

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pietnr1 #1 Posted 21 August 2019 - 04:37 PM

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I'd like to have coaxial gun working, to kill those pesky scouts wheeled or not, they are too fast to hit with main gun but a burst of an automatic .50 or smaller coaxial gun with ap rounds would get them

 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 21 August 2019 - 04:38 PM

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I'd like it for ranging like an RNG assist! :)

barison1 #3 Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:10 PM

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to take example of a tank with .50 ingame already as base values; t7 combat car has a .50 mg with 27mm pen with 8dmg

 

you will barely pen anything with that, so you will just be spraying useless bullets at lights giving them steel walls

 

 

 

 

 

 



Nishi_Kinuyo #4 Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:57 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 21 August 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

to take example of a tank with .50 ingame already as base values; t7 combat car has a .50 mg with 27mm pen with 8dmg

 

you will barely pen anything with that, so you will just be spraying useless bullets at lights giving them steel walls

This.

So I'd rather WG would spend their time not implementing a useless feature like this.

And maybe players should spend some time learning to lead their shots.

 

Armoured Cars, and Light Tanks are, by design, meant to be immune to small arms fire up to and including 12.7mm BMG.


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 21 August 2019 - 08:58 PM.


pietnr1 #5 Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:09 PM

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So how do you take on a rapid moving ebr90 circling like crazy? how do you lead shots when traverse time is too slow even while turning hull in same direction?

4nt #6 Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:37 PM

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View Postpietnr1, on 21 August 2019 - 09:09 PM, said:

So how do you take on a rapid moving ebr90 circling like crazy? how do you lead shots when traverse time is too slow even while turning hull in same direction?

If you are in position for EBR to circle you you have already failed. And it could be any other vehicle, if your turret and hull traverse isn't top notch avoid situations where you can't get your behind against a rock or building. unless you are driving 257, then just ignore the bloody flies and kill them when they circle to your sights. 



Dava_117 #7 Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:56 PM

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On most tanks the 12.7mm guns would be quite useless. Only some tanks that sports bigger coaxial guns (like Maus/E100 50mm or KV-4 45mm guns) would have some chance, even if they still would probably fail to pen many shot due to the angled plates LTs and WV have...

Edited by Dava_117, 21 August 2019 - 09:57 PM.


jack_timber #8 Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:15 PM

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View Postpietnr1, on 21 August 2019 - 03:37 PM, said:

I'd like to have coaxial gun working, to kill those pesky scouts wheeled or not, they are too fast to hit with main gun but a burst of an automatic .50 or smaller coaxial gun with ap rounds would get them

 

A right good idea might not pen anything but by gum it would make you feel better....



Geoffrey_Ironfist #9 Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:30 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 21 August 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

to take example of a tank with .50 ingame already as base values; t7 combat car has a .50 mg with 27mm pen with 8dmg

 

you will barely pen anything with that, so you will just be spraying useless bullets at lights giving them steel walls

 

 

 

Surely you can deflate their rubber wheels, no? And you can keep shooting until all their spares are riddled with holes, too.



feoffle3 #10 Posted 22 August 2019 - 02:53 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 21 August 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

to take example of a tank with .50 ingame already as base values; t7 combat car has a .50 mg with 27mm pen with 8dmg

 

you will barely pen anything with that, so you will just be spraying useless bullets at lights giving them steel walls

 

Not all .50 are the same. https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm

 

This will go through 19mm of armour at 1,500m. The 20mm on the Luchs has 95mm of penetration with standard rounds at short ranges. Something could easily be realisticaly balanced for this function. Whether it was a good idea or not, I have no idea.



pietnr1 #11 Posted 22 August 2019 - 03:40 PM

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View Postfeoffle3, on 22 August 2019 - 01:53 PM, said:

 

Not all .50 are the same. https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm

 

This will go through 19mm of armour at 1,500m. The 20mm on the Luchs has 95mm of penetration with standard rounds at short ranges. Something could easily be realisticaly balanced for this function. Whether it was a good idea or not, I have no idea.


These rounds were implemented  in the 1980 so that would make no sense.

Looking at the stats

Panhard EBR Hull nose and turret 40, sides 20, bottom 15, rooftop 10 mm (1954 version)

ebr hotch 40 front 20 sides  20mm back turret 40mm front 20mm sides

AMD 178B 26mm frontal armour 13mm sidearmour,  7mm bottom, 9mm top and glacis, 13 mm (back, sides and front superstructure) and 20 mm (nose) bolted and riveted armour plate for the hull

Lynx 6x6 13mm front back and side turrest 16 mm front 13 sides

 

All of these can be penetrated at short range (max 250 meter) on the sides with standard 0.50 AP



vasilinhorulezz #12 Posted 22 August 2019 - 05:43 PM

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Yea, cripple light tanks even more, so now Steve can farm them more easily.

No.



PayMore #13 Posted 22 August 2019 - 06:11 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 21 August 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

to take example of a tank with .50 ingame already as base values; t7 combat car has a .50 mg with 27mm pen with 8dmg

 

you will barely pen anything with that, so you will just be spraying useless bullets at lights giving them steel walls

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dont limit yourself, use some gold



barison1 #14 Posted 22 August 2019 - 06:30 PM

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View Postfeoffle3, on 22 August 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

 

Not all .50 are the same. https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm

 

This will go through 19mm of armour at 1,500m. The 20mm on the Luchs has 95mm of penetration with standard rounds at short ranges. Something could easily be realisticaly balanced for this function. Whether it was a good idea or not, I have no idea.

im aware there is sabot .50 shells but its pretty modern, so i didnt count that in. besides so far my source it has about 43mm pen at 500m which is still poor against alot of LT

otherwise we might aswell start adding modern mbt like leo2 at some point

17:39 Added after 9 minute

View PostGeoffrey_Ironfist, on 22 August 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

 

Surely you can deflate their rubber wheels, no? And you can keep shooting until all their spares are riddled with holes, too.

good point but if you already struggle to hit them with main gun you wouldnt hit either with mg i suppose, so far i remember the .50 has like 900ms shell speed which is average ish wot shell speeds


Edited by barison1, 22 August 2019 - 06:35 PM.


pietnr1 #15 Posted 22 August 2019 - 07:45 PM

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Nothing against LIght tanks in general, But in my opinion it's not verry realistic if a light wheeled tank sprints with over 100km/h to opposite side of map and starts kamikaze killing spree there. I have seen this happen on many ocasions.

So to defend agains just these wheeled tanks as EBR or Lynx I would like to have a defense. i.e. heavy machinegun fire from .50 with ap rounds from coax or .50 on turret roof nothing fancy. In real world most tanks where also protected by infantry with portable anti tank weapons.

Besides, light tanks were designed to spot enemy for Arty, air support, and to guide the medium and heavies to enemy. No attack role just moderate selfdefense and verry capable spot capability (optics and long distance radio)

Only if the opposite side had no tankforce to speak of they could act as "tanks" in atack role, i.e. in Africa (by France) and maybe South America (portugal ?) 

 

 

If a coax gun is to much to ask for how about Smokegrenadelaunchers These were pretty standard on every tank in the days, or like the Soviet tanks they could create smoke screens by pumping diesel fuel directly into their exhaust system - producing a lingering white cloud of coverage?


Edited by pietnr1, 22 August 2019 - 07:54 PM.


barison1 #16 Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:35 PM

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View Postpietnr1, on 22 August 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

 

If a coax gun is to much to ask for how about Smokegrenadelaunchers These were pretty standard on every tank in the days, or like the Soviet tanks they could create smoke screens by pumping diesel fuel directly into their exhaust system - producing a lingering white cloud of coverage?

smoke might be a decent idea if added properly, but real unsure if it would be a nice addition or not, would need way more testing than just casually added like bunch other potato ideas wg did like bobject or the utter mediocre brit lights. current smoke screens in FL blocking near all vision is something nice but at same time being utter retarded aswell as it lasts long and in all directions for any class

 

maybe more something for the godawful brit LT to compensate, a smoke screen that makes them unspotted for like 5s max. to the side the smoke was fired at, usable 1-2 times a match. anyways it should only be a thing for passive scout lights and some paper meds, not for something with actual armor imo:hiding:



RamRaid90 #17 Posted 22 August 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View Postpietnr1, on 22 August 2019 - 06:45 PM, said:

Nothing against LIght tanks in general, But in my opinion it's not verry realistic if a light wheeled tank sprints with over 100km/h to opposite side of map and starts kamikaze killing spree there. I have seen this happen on many ocasions.

 

It's very realistic, since the Panhard EBR could  travel at speeds of up to 100km/ph.

 

Whether it's good for game balance is a different story.



MeetriX #18 Posted 23 August 2019 - 10:41 AM

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View Postbarison1, on 22 August 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

im aware there is sabot .50 shells but its pretty modern, so i didnt count that in. besides so far my source it has about 43mm pen at 500m which is still poor against alot of LT

otherwise we might aswell start adding modern mbt like leo2 at some point

17:39 Added after 9 minute

good point but if you already struggle to hit them with main gun you wouldnt hit either with mg i suppose, so far i remember the .50 has like 900ms shell speed which is average ish wot shell speeds

I have difficulties to understand your logic.

Few seconds of trigger time and dozends of bullets has same hit probability as one shell?



barison1 #19 Posted 23 August 2019 - 10:54 AM

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View PostMeetriX, on 23 August 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

I have difficulties to understand your logic.

Few seconds of trigger time and dozends of bullets has same hit probability as one shell?


if said player struggles to lead his shots* do you think he can suddently lead shots with mediocre shell speed mg? sure he might/will hit a couple with rng leading shot towards total outer side of aim circle but thats about it

 

*as OP mentioned "too fast to hit"

 

even when going spray and pray into a wide arc to make more sure he hits some it will be a tiny fraction hitting it, and still needs to pen then to do dmg and/or hit the wheels enough to actually damage them as the module dmg of mg is low


Edited by barison1, 23 August 2019 - 11:06 AM.





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