Jump to content


Strange penetration


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

Chenghis18 #1 Posted 25 August 2019 - 01:14 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 7004 battles
  • 1
  • [DSRCH] DSRCH
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

Hi guys,

 

So I've recently decided to go for the T95 and am currently grinding the Jackson, which is a pretty decent tier 6 TD. 

 

I've noticed however, something quite funny about it. The Jackson has 243 penetration on its APCR ammo on the second (tier 7) gun. 

 

For example, the Emil 1, has only 217 pen on its second (tier 9) gun with the main ammo, which is also APCR and 242 with its gold ammo. 

 

How come a Tier 7 gun on a Tier 6 tank can have more penetration than that of a Tier 8 tank with a Tier 9 gun? 

 

Cheers



XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 25 August 2019 - 01:30 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 53231 battles
  • 5,320
  • Member since:
    04-02-2016

That's a pretty static analysis. :)

 

There are other factors in the equation like: durability (HP), mobility, accuracy, gun handling and armor. TDs usually have good penetration for their tier to compensate for other weaknesses.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 25 August 2019 - 01:32 PM.


The_Naa #3 Posted 25 August 2019 - 01:32 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8317 battles
  • 1,388
  • [QSF-C] QSF-C
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017

the ST Emil has 231 standard penetration value on AP

Jackson has 243  on APCR.

on paper it looks better but for Jackson the APCR does less damage (240), probably cost's more and loses penetration value over distance faster.

while the ST Emil does more damage (490 which is godlike at that tier), costs less, and keeps most of its penetration value over vast distances.



Homer_J #4 Posted 25 August 2019 - 01:54 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 32362 battles
  • 35,392
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostChenghis18, on 25 August 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

 

How come a Tier 7 gun on a Tier 6 tank can have more penetration than that of a Tier 8 tank with a Tier 9 gun? 

 

Cheers

 

You are comparing a tank introduced when premium ammo was for gold only and historical accuracy mattered (not to mention +5 matchmaking) and which has been pretty much ignored since with a tank introduced under a very different philosophy and management.



Dorander #5 Posted 25 August 2019 - 02:15 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 21025 battles
  • 6,032
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

<Obligatory "That's what she said" joke here>

 

For reasons others have provided I wouldn't think too much of a relationship between tiers and stats. Some tanks are more powerful for their tier than others which are outright weak for their tier. Tiers are barely capable of providing an indication of power between tanks of the same line in the same nation, let alone with other lines or other nations.

 

Fact is that at the end of the road, this game's balance, if it even exists, is frequently nonsensical, because you can't straight up compare one stat with another stat. From what they occasionally tell us, Wargaming seems to look at how a tank performs overall in terms of winning, rather than how a tank performs in isolated situations like single shots. There's some sense in that, though there's also plenty to be said for not min-maxing certain designs if you want good balance.



baratoz1701 #6 Posted 25 August 2019 - 02:55 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 25083 battles
  • 234
  • [FA1LZ] FA1LZ
  • Member since:
    05-31-2012
I've heard that topic title before, usually when i'm with a lady :/

TheComfyChair #7 Posted 25 August 2019 - 07:40 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8905 battles
  • 1,218
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    03-20-2017

View PostDorander, on 25 August 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

<Obligatory "That's what she said" joke here>

 

For reasons others have provided I wouldn't think too much of a relationship between tiers and stats. Some tanks are more powerful for their tier than others which are outright weak for their tier. Tiers are barely capable of providing an indication of power between tanks of the same line in the same nation, let alone with other lines or other nations.

 

Fact is that at the end of the road, this game's balance, if it even exists, is frequently nonsensical, because you can't straight up compare one stat with another stat. From what they occasionally tell us, Wargaming seems to look at how a tank performs overall in terms of winning, rather than how a tank performs in isolated situations like single shots. There's some sense in that, though there's also plenty to be said for not min-maxing certain designs if you want good balance.


You beat me to the "said the vicar to the farmers wife" double entendre :teethhappy::honoring:



Desyatnik_Pansy #8 Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:19 PM

    Bartender

  • Player
  • 18115 battles
  • 26,648
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostThe_Naa, on 25 August 2019 - 01:32 PM, said:

the ST Emil has 231 standard penetration value on AP

Jackson has 243  on APCR.

on paper it looks better but for Jackson the APCR does less damage (240), probably cost's more and loses penetration value over distance faster.

while the ST Emil does more damage (490 which is godlike at that tier), costs less, and keeps most of its penetration value over vast distances.

 

Wrong tank. He's referring to the Swedish Emil I, not the Sturer Emil.



Bordhaw #9 Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:20 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 14894 battles
  • 4,882
  • Member since:
    01-29-2017

View PostChenghis18, on 25 August 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

Strange penetration

 



The_Naa #10 Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:24 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8317 battles
  • 1,388
  • [QSF-C] QSF-C
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017

View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 25 August 2019 - 08:19 PM, said:

 

Wrong tank. He's referring to the Swedish Emil I, not the Sturer Emil.

 

oh, my mistake.

i just remembered that the ST Emil had a tier 9 gun as well and made the connection there.

im not yet familiar with the new Swedish tanks.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users