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Tired of "Gold" aka "Special" ammo? Tired of the game like is it now?

GOLD Ammo

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Pedro_Agnus #41 Posted 10 September 2019 - 11:59 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 September 2019 - 09:10 AM, said:

 

Nice, so there is no way to reliably pen a Maus or Type5 frontally.

How about no?

There is! If you know WG explanations regarding "How to" take down those tanks they will show a couple frontal weak points. So.... As far they are concerned... All is balanced and easy to pen as long you aim to the right spots. Or.... (a big OR)... You can get their back, flank them. That's what they always say: Just get their backs. Well but almost all maps are "corridors" so.... First you need to take a couple shots before getting their backs because remember... Is 15 vs 15. Not 1 vs 1.

Basically there's a pile of things wrong now and all they care is doing marathons, wondering which will be the next OP russian tank, nerfing other nations tanks once and a while... Whatever. The thing is: the game as it is now.... If you dont use "special" ammo"... You are f*****. At some point you will struggle.

 

A couple weeks ago i was with a Tier VIII tank on a tier X battle and a purple player was spamming special ammo all time long and he was on a Tier X tank. WTF.... Whats the point? Tier VIII's are by definition more weak and then we get this. So, what to do on this situations? I asked him why he was spaming special ammo on tier VIII's with a tier X russian tank and the reply was: "Because i can!"

 

Well... Thing about it. They do it... Because they can! They need it? 50% the time NO. But is available and they dont want to care about aiming, missing a shot... Bla bla bla. Skill = zero! But they do it anyway.

 

The special ammo, in my opinion, should only deal half the damage. And i believe this is a decent solution. Obviously the ammo capacity should be increased but every would think twice that way. Damage or penetration?

 

All the best guys. 


Edited by Pedro_Agnus, 10 September 2019 - 12:02 PM.


4nt #42 Posted 10 September 2019 - 12:19 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 10 September 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

There is! If you know WG explanations regarding "How to" take down those tanks they will show a couple frontal weak points. So.... As far they are concerned... All is balanced and easy to pen as long you aim to the right spots. Or.... (a big OR)... You can get their back, flank them. That's what they always say: Just get their backs. Well but almost all maps are "corridors" so.... First you need to take a couple shots before getting their backs because remember... Is 15 vs 15. Not 1 vs 1.

Basically there's a pile of things wrong now and all they care is doing marathons, wondering which will be the next OP russian tank, nerfing other nations tanks once and a while... Whatever. The thing is: the game as it is now.... If you dont use "special" ammo"... You are f*****. At some point you will struggle.

 

A couple weeks ago i was with a Tier VIII tank on a tier X battle and a purple player was spamming special ammo all time long and he was on a Tier X tank. WTF.... Whats the point? Tier VIII's are by definition more weak and then we get this. So, what to do on this situations? I asked him why he was spaming special ammo on tier VIII's with a tier X russian tank and the reply was: "Because i can!"

 

Well... Thing about it. They do it... Because they can! They need it? 50% the time NO. But is available and they dont want to care about aiming, missing a shot... Bla bla bla. Skill = zero! But they do it anyway.

 

The special ammo, in my opinion, should only deal half the damage. And i believe this is a decent solution. Obviously the ammo capacity should be increased but every would think twice that way. Damage or penetration?

 

All the best guys. 

Indeed there is. 45% pen chance Maus vs Maus, 40ish type vs type. Mix and Match and surprise, any non-td std ammo has max 55% against roughly 10sq pixel spot vs type cupola- when it is stationary and shooter fully aimed at elevated position to eliminate effect of taller tank.

 

LFP of Maus is 'weakspot' on sense it is small and easily hidden in current maps, yea you can pen it with 340 HEAT but angling it makes it very much even harder target to pen with std ammo- at tX. Lower tiers can go back to garage.

 

Balance is not achieved with looking into prem ammo alone. Not by far shot. I have My doubts about test server changes, although hp curve balancing is good IMO for game. Premium solution... Appears to be just an trick that changes little. WG was nice enough to announce no armor changes so income seems to Be their primary concern.

 

Do note, removal of prem ammo also increases HE spam since splatting for 200 is better than plinking for 490. 



chainreact0r #43 Posted 10 September 2019 - 12:38 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 10 September 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

Well... Thing about it. They do it... Because they can! They need it? 50% the time NO. But is available and they dont want to care about aiming, missing a shot... Bla bla bla. Skill = zero! But they do it anyway.

 

That is very true. Most of the rounds fired would pen regardless if they were gold or not. 

Point is, why would you care if some rich f*ck golden showers your skorpion or batchat? 

What if a tier X gold spams your tier 8? What if the enemy loaded gold for a friendly maus? He just ignores you and loses dpm?

He is losing money, and you are affected by absolutely nothing.

Gold complainers are simply amazing, displaying almost the same lack of brainpower as arty players smh.



lnfernaI #44 Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:15 PM

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Oh it's one of those threads. Let me get my popcorn.

Pedro_Agnus #45 Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:43 PM

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View PostlnfernaI, on 10 September 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

Oh it's one of those threads. Let me get my popcorn.

Bring opinions as well ✌️are very welcome hehe

12:48 Added after 4 minute

View Post4nt, on 10 September 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

Do note, removal of prem ammo also increases HE spam since splatting for 200 is better than plinking for 490. 

Note, i rather have HE in the game than "special ammo". Simple, you're receiving damage no matter what... So at least is by half! 


Edited by Pedro_Agnus, 10 September 2019 - 01:43 PM.


Flicka #46 Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:49 PM

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Since the only balancing factor for premium shells is their cost, it is not enough, plain and simple.

Still think the only "fix" for the ammo is to increase their cost by a set number, I suggest another 0 at the end.

 

The actual problem is the vehicles which are too armored and maps themselves.

 

Lets try this here, I would like to see suggestions for weakspots, so that they are not always the same, cupola and LFP.

Lets try to be creative and actually make the people who can learn be better at this game. The good old times of IS4 drivers hatch, TigerP post slot, E75 ears and all that.

 



Dava_117 #47 Posted 10 September 2019 - 02:06 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 10 September 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

There is! If you know WG explanations regarding "How to" take down those tanks they will show a couple frontal weak points. So.... As far they are concerned... All is balanced and easy to pen as long you aim to the right spots. Or.... (a big OR)... You can get their back, flank them. That's what they always say: Just get their backs. Well but almost all maps are "corridors" so.... First you need to take a couple shots before getting their backs because remember... Is 15 vs 15. Not 1 vs 1.

Basically there's a pile of things wrong now and all they care is doing marathons, wondering which will be the next OP russian tank, nerfing other nations tanks once and a while... Whatever. The thing is: the game as it is now.... If you dont use "special" ammo"... You are f*****. At some point you will struggle.

 

A couple weeks ago i was with a Tier VIII tank on a tier X battle and a purple player was spamming special ammo all time long and he was on a Tier X tank. WTF.... Whats the point? Tier VIII's are by definition more weak and then we get this. So, what to do on this situations? I asked him why he was spaming special ammo on tier VIII's with a tier X russian tank and the reply was: "Because i can!"

 

Well... Thing about it. They do it... Because they can! They need it? 50% the time NO. But is available and they dont want to care about aiming, missing a shot... Bla bla bla. Skill = zero! But they do it anyway.

 

The special ammo, in my opinion, should only deal half the damage. And i believe this is a decent solution. Obviously the ammo capacity should be increased but every would think twice that way. Damage or penetration?

 

All the best guys. 

 

I'm well aware that premium ammo si a problem, but removing it just don't solve it. 

Why should a tier 10 tanks shoot full premium at a tier 8 tank. Because it can. An there is the point. Premium ammo don't have sensible drawback so going around full premium is possible in almost any tank.

 

Reducing alpha on premium ammo or giving it sensible drawback, like huge pen drop off to APCR or very low shell speed for HEAT would also help in that direction.


Edited by Dava_117, 10 September 2019 - 02:06 PM.


4nt #48 Posted 10 September 2019 - 02:58 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 September 2019 - 02:06 PM, said:

 

I'm well aware that premium ammo si a problem, but removing it just don't solve it. 

Why should a tier 10 tanks shoot full premium at a tier 8 tank. Because it can. An there is the point. Premium ammo don't have sensible drawback so going around full premium is possible in almost any tank.

 

Reducing alpha on premium ammo or giving it sensible drawback, like huge pen drop off to APCR or very low shell speed for HEAT would also help in that direction.

Overpenetration and using additional penetrator calibre for APCR for overmatch calculations could work- unless made sloppily.



staurinsh #49 Posted 10 September 2019 - 03:01 PM

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Reducing alpha is not a drawback, basically premium ammo stays at it level, u still have better chance to penetrate enemy, wg should make it more expensive and increase reload, that will be a good drawback, want spam gold, here you go, enjoy 30%-50% longer reload time. For example, tvp, it can heat you in 6sec, make it double, want spam heat? Now your reload is not 1.5sec, but 3sec.

VarzA #50 Posted 10 September 2019 - 03:02 PM

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View Postsplash_time, on 09 September 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

 

Actually yeah, i just won a game without shooting a single "special" ammo as you call it. ;D

and you just noticed this? WG have announced that they'll release a new update in future, "special ammo rebalancing".

wait and this all will change. ( if they even work on that :D )


The firing of gold ammo is one of the biggest drivers for premium account status, no way they will stop that.

Most likely we will never see a cap on the # of gold rounds we can take with us.



lnfernaI #51 Posted 10 September 2019 - 03:03 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 10 September 2019 - 02:43 PM, said:

Bring opinions as well ✌️are very welcome hehe

If you tell me how this thread is different to all the others before it,I just might.



Dava_117 #52 Posted 10 September 2019 - 03:18 PM

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View Poststaurinsh, on 10 September 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

Reducing alpha is not a drawback, basically premium ammo stays at it level, u still have better chance to penetrate enemy, wg should make it more expensive and increase reload, that will be a good drawback, want spam gold, here you go, enjoy 30%-50% longer reload time. For example, tvp, it can heat you in 6sec, make it double, want spam heat? Now your reload is not 1.5sec, but 3sec.

 

Reducing alpha or increasing reload makes no difference. Still you lower the effective DPM of the tank. 

Also, considering that alpha is king, lowering alpha also reduce the trading capabilities.


Edited by Dava_117, 10 September 2019 - 03:18 PM.


staurinsh #53 Posted 10 September 2019 - 03:41 PM

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It would make a diference, like i said, tvp would need 12sec to empty its clip not 6sec.

4nt #54 Posted 10 September 2019 - 03:51 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 September 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

 

Reducing alpha or increasing reload makes no difference. Still you lower the effective DPM of the tank. 

Also, considering that alpha is king, lowering alpha also reduce the trading capabilities.

Not to mention since alpha is king, dpm is largely redundant.



Dava_117 #55 Posted 10 September 2019 - 03:53 PM

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View Post4nt, on 10 September 2019 - 03:51 PM, said:

Not to mention since alpha is king, dpm is largely redundant.

 

Indeed. A lower limit for DPM under wich a tank start to lose competitiveness exist, but trading is more common, so alpha will always win.



Pedro_Agnus #56 Posted 10 September 2019 - 04:13 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 September 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

 

Reducing alpha or increasing reload makes no difference. Still you lower the effective DPM of the tank. 

Also, considering that alpha is king, lowering alpha also reduce the trading capabilities.

Dava... But thats a choise every single player would have to do: DPM or Penetration? And that would kinda avoid the special ammo spam that we currently have in game. Right? 



Dava_117 #57 Posted 10 September 2019 - 04:21 PM

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View PostPedro_Agnus, on 10 September 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

Dava... But thats a choise every single player would have to do: DPM or Penetration? And that would kinda avoid the special ammo spam that we currently have in game. Right? 

 

Yep. Or at least give a real drawback. A fine tuning must be find, but ideally is a good solution.



splash_time #58 Posted 10 September 2019 - 07:46 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 September 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

 

I'm well aware that premium ammo si a problem, but removing it just don't solve it. 

Why should a tier 10 tanks shoot full premium at a tier 8 tank. Because it can. An there is the point. Premium ammo don't have sensible drawback so going around full premium is possible in almost any tank.

 

Reducing alpha on premium ammo or giving it sensible drawback, like huge pen drop off to APCR or very low shell speed for HEAT would also help in that direction.

 

I agree, premium ammo is a part of this game, same as artys.

Limiting it should be done in a wise way, so nobody lose any advantage.

But considering that some tanks are really requiring Gold ammo to be panned, like E3's LP, same as Badger and 279 e, Obj 268 v4 and etc, when you face such tanks, you automatically press 2, why? Well, just don't bother shooting it with standard, it won't go through easily.

My point is, it must be in game, but to reduce the alpha and shell speed, it might stop spamming it like noobs.



N00BT00B #59 Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:02 PM

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Had a few goes yesterday at completing the heavy missuons.. 'block your hitpoints worth of damage'

What a crock. Every single enemy i faced was firing gold straight through my front.

Piss off with your shitty unachievable missions, WG

Dava_117 #60 Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:36 PM

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View PostN00BT00B, on 10 September 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

Had a few goes yesterday at completing the heavy missuons.. 'block your hitpoints worth of damage'

What a crock. Every single enemy i faced was firing gold straight through my front.

Piss off with your shitty unachievable missions, WG

 

Have you tried using your armour layout well? Bouncing x2 HP is quite easy doable in many HT. 

Did it a lot of time in tanks like the KV-4, that can be penetrated frontally by almost any same tier tanks it meet. 

 

Premium ammo doesn't mean autopen. We had a case in wich an E100 bounced off the turret of an FV4005 (lel that was hilarious!) because HEAT don't overmatch.

 

The frustrating part is the fact that you need far more focus to bounce while the enemy have easy time with no drawback. If premium ammo get real drawbacks, it won't matter anymore, as you have more chance to pen but actually pay with other tank performance in exchange.


Edited by Dava_117, 10 September 2019 - 10:37 PM.






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