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What am I doing wrong?

Win rate

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Lagalaza #1 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:25 AM

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Hi all,

 

I will get straight to the point.... Win rate. Mine is falling like a stone for the last three thousand battles. It seems that even though my WN8, WoT Performance Rating, Noobmeter rating, avg Damage, Damage ratio and kill ratio are all on the up, my winrate is plummeting. It's getting lower than a snakes belly in a wheel rut. Why? Am i cursed? Does the MM have it in for me? Is the RNG against me? I don't think so as all the performance related stats are improving greatly. So what am I doing that is so wrong when it comes to helping to win battles?

 

A great example of this would be my performance in the Hellcat since I had all top modules...747 avg damage (565 is the average for the player base), 1161 WN8 (958 is the average for the player base) but.... 40.6% winrate. It's only 32 battles but is symptematic of my issue.

 

All feedback welcome and any tips greatly appreciated.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:37 AM

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Replays would help. It might simply be a case of you playing too defensively so that yes, you're doing above average damage, but it's damage picked up at the end of the game when the battle is already lost.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #3 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:37 AM

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Is it dropping though? According to noobmeter your win rate is 46.61% for the last 3k battles which is very close to your overall at 47.85%. One quick observation is the huge number of tanks you play simultaneously. You'll make it harder for yourself to learn how a any of them work.

 

Pick a few easy and fun to play lines, learn first then play not the other way around. Also bad habits are harder to get rid of when you have a high battle count.



fwhaatpiraat #4 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:41 AM

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747 dpg on the Hellcat isn't that high imo. But still it's possible for your damage to go up, while your winrate sinks. If you sit on the red line for example. The damage you deal from there is usually to the weaker players. At the same time your team is missing a gun and hit points on other places if you camp in the back. Also possible that you start dealing damage when the flank has fallen and the battle is lost.

I'm not claiming you are camping at the wrong spots, but that seems likely to me. Although bad luck can be the case ofcourse. Replays provide more intel.

Lagalaza #5 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:43 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 10 September 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

Replays would help. It might simply be a case of you playing too defensively so that yes, you're doing above average damage, but it's damage picked up at the end of the game when the battle is already lost.

 

I've felt that this might be an issue. Being aggresive is something I try to be but so often with damaging consequences.

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 September 2019 - 08:37 AM, said:

Is it dropping though? According to noobmeter your win rate is 46.61% for the last 3k battles which is very close to your overall at 47.85%. One quick observation is the huge number of tanks you play simultaneously. You'll make it harder for yourself to learn how a any of them work.

 

Pick a few easy and fun to play lines, learn first then play not the other way around. Also bad habits are harder to get rid of when you have a high battle count.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't thought about the "tank spread" before. Maybe a focus on two or three tanks of the same type and style would be a better idea. Question is, which ones??

08:47 Added after 3 minute

View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 10 September 2019 - 08:41 AM, said:

747 dpg on the Hellcat isn't that high imo. But still it's possible for your damage to go up, while your winrate sinks. If you sit on the red line for example. The damage you deal from there is usually to the weaker players. At the same time your team is missing a gun and hit points on other places if you camp in the back. Also possible that you start dealing damage when the flank has fallen and the battle is lost.

I'm not claiming you are camping at the wrong spots, but that seems likely to me. Although bad luck can be the case ofcourse. Replays provide more intel.

 

I don't generally camp and do endeavour to get my gun in the game. Fighting in TDs I try to get a good position to cover the tanks that are pushing forward. Often find that the flank collpases in front of me and I'm left trying to fight off three or four tanks plus getting picked on by arty!!



NUKLEAR_SLUG #6 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:48 AM

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View PostLagalaza, on 10 September 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Question is, which ones??

 

Which ones do you feel most comfortable in and enjoy?

 

It is good advice to pick a small selection and play those. You could set yourself a personal challenge of getting an MOE or two in one of your favourites for instance, that'll give some time with the same tank to really get a handle on it.

 

Once you've done it on one drop it out of rotation and bring something else in.



Lagalaza #7 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:50 AM

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I play on a specific laptop that is just for WoT and gaming whilst typing this on the work laptop. I'll get some replays at random from the past week and put them in the replay thingy later today to put on here.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #8 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:52 AM

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View PostLagalaza, on 10 September 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't thought about the "tank spread" before. Maybe a focus on two or three tanks of the same type and style would be a better idea. Question is, which ones??

 

The ones that win the most aka good mediums and heavies. Think about it for a minute, sniper TDs don't really have enough impact on deciding the battle outcome. You're supporting the front line but not part of it. If they naturally suck they'll lose the engagement and you'll end up in a tank with no armor and little HP that dies fast. No impact or not enough impact.

 

One major factor is to choose tanks that you enjoy playing and please do the credit grinding in FL. Playing tier 8 premiums in randoms is not ideal.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 10 September 2019 - 10:01 AM.


Lagalaza #9 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:53 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 10 September 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:

 

Which ones do you feel most comfortable in and enjoy?

 

It is good advice to pick a small selection and play those. You could set yourself a personal challenge of getting an MOE or two in one of your favourites for instance, that'll give some time with the same tank to really get a handle on it.

 

Once you've done it on one drop it out of rotation and bring something else in.

 

Sounds like a plan. I'll think about which three to play in rotation for the next week and see how it goes. A wee experiment for me. Thanks.



fwhaatpiraat #10 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:56 AM

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View PostLagalaza, on 10 September 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't generally camp and do endeavour to get my gun in the game. Fighting in TDs I try to get a good position to cover the tanks that are pushing forward. Often find that the flank collpases in front of me and I'm left trying to fight off three or four tanks plus getting picked on by arty!!

If that's (often) the case, you had to relocate earlier. Easily said, I know, but this game is 90% about positioning.

 

Obviously if you start brawling/trading with a kv-85, or you get circled by a Cromwell in the middle of a battle, something went wrong regarding positioning.



Lagalaza #11 Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:57 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 September 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

 

The ones that win the most aka good mediums and heavies. Think about it for a minute, sniper TDs don't really have enough impact on decide the battle outcome. You're supporting the front line but not part of it. If they naturally suck they'll lose the engagement and you'll end up in a tank with no armor and little HP that dies fast. No impact or not enough impact.

 

One major factor is to choose tanks that you enjoy playing and please do the credit grinding in FL. Playing tier 8 premiums in randoms is not ideal.

 

I understand your point about TDs as opposed to mediums and heavies. I enjoy mediums, heavies and TDs in equal measure so will have a ponder and pick three tanks from the same class to play for a week and see how that goes, both from a winrate and an enjoyment perspective. Thanks for your help.



Lagalaza #12 Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:13 AM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 10 September 2019 - 08:56 AM, said:

If that's (often) the case, you had to relocate earlier. Easily said, I know, but this game is 90% about positioning.

 

Obviously if you start brawling/trading with a kv-85, or you get circled by a Cromwell in the middle of a battle, something went wrong regarding positioning.

 

I think you may have touched on something there. My positioning possibly being a large part of my lack of influence on battles. Many times I will get into a position to support a flank and things will be a bit static. I move to another position to help someone else and generally die, either while moving or as soon as I get there. If I stay put and the flank i'm on has to do some defending, I can help turn the tide, but that doesn't happen more than 30% of the time. Maybe being more mobile and quicker to react would help.



Flicka #13 Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:19 AM

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I would say general knowledge of the game and maps, combined with awareness.

And all of those can be improved, from me I can say I learned alot from guides and watching streamers.

You probably cant get to their lvl, but you can see how they react to certain situations you come upon regularly in wot, and try to do the same or even better try to understand why they do it.

 

And playing the tanks you do good in and enjoy playing is a must.



Bordhaw #14 Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:32 AM

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View PostLagalaza, on 10 September 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

Hi all,

 

I will get straight to the point.... Win rate. Mine is falling like a stone for the last three thousand battles. It seems that even though my WN8, WoT Performance Rating, Noobmeter rating, avg Damage, Damage ratio and kill ratio are all on the up, my winrate is plummeting. It's getting lower than a snakes belly in a wheel rut. Why? Am i cursed? 

 

All feedback welcome and any tips greatly appreciated.

 

Stop playing heavy tanks.

 



JocMeister #15 Posted 10 September 2019 - 10:37 AM

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View PostLagalaza, on 10 September 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

Hi all,

 

I will get straight to the point.... Win rate. Mine is falling like a stone for the last three thousand battles. It seems that even though my WN8, WoT Performance Rating, Noobmeter rating, avg Damage, Damage ratio and kill ratio are all on the up, my winrate is plummeting. It's getting lower than a snakes belly in a wheel rut. Why? Am i cursed? Does the MM have it in for me? Is the RNG against me? I don't think so as all the performance related stats are improving greatly. So what am I doing that is so wrong when it comes to helping to win battles?

 

A great example of this would be my performance in the Hellcat since I had all top modules...747 avg damage (565 is the average for the player base), 1161 WN8 (958 is the average for the player base) but.... 40.6% winrate. It's only 32 battles but is symptematic of my issue.

 

All feedback welcome and any tips greatly appreciated.

 

If you want genuine help you need to post a few replays. Not cherry picked ones but just 3-5 random ones for us to look at.

 

 



PowJay #16 Posted 10 September 2019 - 11:03 AM

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There are days when I take out my very best vehicles. By that I mean the ones that I enjoy. The ones that I do well in and the ones that can, and do, carry even as bottom tier... and I may as well be in a MS-1 in a tier X battle.

 

We all have periods like this... days, certainly. A week? Maybe. Longer? I know that I've had such an extensive period of battles ranging from dull to terrible that I've taken several weeks off.

 

As we've discussed before, OP, my T67 continually struggles to maintain its positive WR despite comparing favourably on performance stats with all my other tier V TDs.

 

Weird stuff definitely happens and it seems to happen to really good players as well as us cannon fodder. If it wasn't for the regular postings of unicums with their 4,000 Wn8, 20% WR sessions, I might have started to believe in the conspiracy theories by now. 

 

Obviously we're talking about a significant number of battles here but I guess that only you can try to make sense of what's happening based on the ideas put forward. By which I mean someone says you're camping. You say you're not. Maybe it's somewhere in between in that you do go forward early, for example, but not to the best spot, or without support, or with no scouting on that flank.

 

I'm not saying that you do, but every thought and comment should help you to analyse what you're doing and see if there is just a tiny aspect that you can change. 

 

I don't tend to offer specific advice because I too play a wide range of vehicles by class and tier and, for me, that means being flexible and learning (still) by mistakes just as much by good decisions. I certainly don't feel qualified to say "THIS! THIS is what you're doing wrong."

 

Just one thing to consider. A lot of my T67 games were played during the 3/5/7 era, where, as bottom tier, I could continue dealing the same level of damage but against a tier V to VII team with a greater overall amount of HP than a III to V team as could have been seen a while ago. 600 damage against tier III could be two dead enemies, but only a dent in the HP of a tier VII team. 

 

That shouldn't be so much of an issue since the MM was changed recently 



Jauhesammutin #17 Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:45 PM

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View PostLagalaza, on 10 September 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

Hi all,

 

I will get straight to the point.... Win rate. Mine is falling like a stone for the last three thousand battles. It seems that even though my WN8, WoT Performance Rating, Noobmeter rating, avg Damage, Damage ratio and kill ratio are all on the up, my winrate is plummeting. It's getting lower than a snakes belly in a wheel rut. Why? Am i cursed? Does the MM have it in for me? Is the RNG against me? I don't think so as all the performance related stats are improving greatly. So what am I doing that is so wrong when it comes to helping to win battles?

 

A great example of this would be my performance in the Hellcat since I had all top modules...747 avg damage (565 is the average for the player base), 1161 WN8 (958 is the average for the player base) but.... 40.6% winrate. It's only 32 battles but is symptematic of my issue.

 

All feedback welcome and any tips greatly appreciated.

It's easier to pad other stats when you are loosing.

Let's take the Hellcat for example. You sit at the back of the map doing absolutely nothing and your team wins. You get a win but 0 damage so your winrate goes up but WN8 goes down. What if your team doesn't win? After the enemies are done killing your teammates they come rushing towards you and you get your 3 shots worth of damage. Your winrate goes down but WN8 goes up.

 

So, are you actually improving or just getting more chances to do damage?



Lagalaza #18 Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:52 PM

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Some replays at random from the last couple of days...

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5023070#malinovka-lagalaza-p_44_pantera

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5023077#airfield-lagalaza-t-150

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5023104#steppes-lagalaza-rheinmetall_skorpion_g

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5023108#prokhorovka-lagalaza-t20

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5023107#fjords-lagalaza-t67

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5023111#highway-lagalaza-t29

 

Any feedback (except outright laughter) appreciated.
 

 

12:58 Added after 6 minute

View PostPowJay, on 10 September 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

There are days when I take out my very best vehicles. By that I mean the ones that I enjoy. The ones that I do well in and the ones that can, and do, carry even as bottom tier... and I may as well be in a MS-1 in a tier X battle.

 

We all have periods like this... days, certainly. A week? Maybe. Longer? I know that I've had such an extensive period of battles ranging from dull to terrible that I've taken several weeks off.

 

As we've discussed before, OP, my T67 continually struggles to maintain its positive WR despite comparing favourably on performance stats with all my other tier V TDs.

 

Weird stuff definitely happens and it seems to happen to really good players as well as us cannon fodder. If it wasn't for the regular postings of unicums with their 4,000 Wn8, 20% WR sessions, I might have started to believe in the conspiracy theories by now. 

 

Obviously we're talking about a significant number of battles here but I guess that only you can try to make sense of what's happening based on the ideas put forward. By which I mean someone says you're camping. You say you're not. Maybe it's somewhere in between in that you do go forward early, for example, but not to the best spot, or without support, or with no scouting on that flank.

 

I'm not saying that you do, but every thought and comment should help you to analyse what you're doing and see if there is just a tiny aspect that you can change. 

 

I don't tend to offer specific advice because I too play a wide range of vehicles by class and tier and, for me, that means being flexible and learning (still) by mistakes just as much by good decisions. I certainly don't feel qualified to say "THIS! THIS is what you're doing wrong."

 

Just one thing to consider. A lot of my T67 games were played during the 3/5/7 era, where, as bottom tier, I could continue dealing the same level of damage but against a tier V to VII team with a greater overall amount of HP than a III to V team as could have been seen a while ago. 600 damage against tier III could be two dead enemies, but only a dent in the HP of a tier VII team. 

 

That shouldn't be so much of an issue since the MM was changed recently 

 

I appreciate that there are peaks and troughs, but the underlying trend is downwards. I feel like I try to do damage and get involved but somehow don't quite manage it. Am I too "shy" in the way I play? Maybe I am a dreaded "camper" without being fully aware of it? As you say, probably somewhere in between.

 

I've had a lot of bottom tier in the last few days but don't feel the MM has been particularly bad for me historically. Just the usual random.

 

Some random replays are posted to see if anyone can spot a pattern. I'm happy and enjoy the game, just want to do more for my team and to help get more wins.

13:00 Added after 7 minute

View PostJocMeister, on 10 September 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

If you want genuine help you need to post a few replays. Not cherry picked ones but just 3-5 random ones for us to look at.

 

 


Posted... help appreciated.

13:00 Added after 8 minute

View PostJauhesammutin, on 10 September 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's easier to pad other stats when you are loosing.

Let's take the Hellcat for example. You sit at the back of the map doing absolutely nothing and your team wins. You get a win but 0 damage so your winrate goes up but WN8 goes down. What if your team doesn't win? After the enemies are done killing your teammates they come rushing towards you and you get your 3 shots worth of damage. Your winrate goes down but WN8 goes up.

 

So, are you actually improving or just getting more chances to do damage?

 

I am genuinely not trying to stat pad. I think I just don't know enough about how to play!!!


Edited by Lagalaza, 10 September 2019 - 01:59 PM.


Jauhesammutin #19 Posted 10 September 2019 - 02:17 PM

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View PostLagalaza, on 10 September 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

I am genuinely not trying to stat pad. I think I just don't know enough about how to play!!!

I know. I just wanted to throw the idea around.

 

Are your stats getting better because you play too safe to get higher stats and thus lose more games because you aren't influencing the games early enough?

Or is your winrate getting worse because your you yolo in too early while getting better stats?

Or is it neither of those?

 

These were just thoughts before you posted any replays. Those are going to give us a clearer picture.



StinkyStonky #20 Posted 10 September 2019 - 04:14 PM

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Looking at your stats https://wot-life.com/eu/player/Lagalaza-556611547/

Your 7 and 30 day WR is very similar to your account average, so your WR isn't actually "dropping like a stone".

Your WN8 is on the up, which is great.

 

Your 7 and 30 day average tier is a lot higher than your account average, so this would explain why your WR hasn't gone up despite you improving as a player (WN8).  You are playing harder games (higher tier).

 

One complaint I hear a lot (from clan mates) is that they lose games where they do really well.

This is actually easily explained. 

When your team has lots of unicorns, you are likely to win but do little damage (the unicorns hoover it all up before ordinary player get a chance).

When you are one of the better players in your team it is likely that you will be a major dealer of damage (your team mates being too useless to steal it from you), but if you are just an average-ish player and yet one of the best on your team then the superior skill of the opponents results in them winning.

 

Add in a bit of self pity and confirmation/observer bias and it's easy to convince yourself that the game is rigged to make you lose whenever you have a good game (which it sort of is, but not for the sinister reason many think).

 


Edited by StinkyStonky, 10 September 2019 - 04:16 PM.






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