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Dear WG, about CW...


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Firefly__xD #1 Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:03 PM

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After each season, a long silence follows. That, while the majority of the players indicated by polls and signatures that they would like more Clan Wars. 

Furthermore, each new season we encounter new surprises, with 10v10 T10 CW being the biggest one. 

 

My requests:

 

Please keep CW enabled throughout the entire year. Contrary to what you think, it will lead to more activity and participation from more players. 

Why?

First of all... in the past, you could participate in CW whenever you could. Some people could and wanted to participate 365 days, which they did. Others could participate maybe 100 days. But at the end, all these people participated whenever they could and wanted.

Now... they can't. Because they can no longer choose when to participate. Due to your new seasons system and the long freezes, it has turned into a situation where YOU (WG) decide when one can participate.

For instance, in the summer... For months I had nothing to do. I wanted to play CW daily, but... there was no CW. Then I went on holidays, and guess what: CW started.

 

Before I can go on to the next thing, let me calculate how many days of "normal" CW we had this year.

 

Season 12: From 12 August 2019 at 10:00 CEST (UTC+2) to 13 September 2019 at 10:00 CEST (UTC+2)

Season 11: from 04 April through 20 May at 09:00 CEST (UTC+2).

 

Season 10: starts on September 26 at 10:00 CEST (UTC+2) through December 11 at 09:00 CET (UTC +1).

Hey, wait a moment, that's already 2018!!

 

So how many days of normal CW did we have in 2019? 79 days!

Today it's day number 260 in 2019. 

 

In the past, we would have had 260 days of CW already. Well, okay, a bit less. Let's take into account the ~20 days freeze we would have at the beginning of the year and let's add another 10 days for possible maintenance days. So at the end, we would have had 230 days of CW. And no, I'm not going to take into account campaigns. Because if you remember, campaigns and normal CW ran in parralel in the past. 

 

This means a reduction of almost 66%!!! That is HUGE! Even if you count in the campaigns we played this year, the difference would still remain HUGE.

 

Now, answer the following questions for me:

- Why do CW players get distracted and wander off to other games, where they have competitive game modes that can be played thoughout the entire year?

- Why do clans struggle to recruit players who want to play CW? Or let me actually rephrase this: Why do CW-only clans struggle to survive?

- Why are fewer players able to play CW?

- Why are many CW-centered clans losing motivation to keep their clans alive or to improve? Would they be motivated to do so for SH? The mode you can play even without being in a clan? The mode that has skill-based matchmaking anyway?

 

Simple! You can guess the answer I'd put here!

 

Yes, I'm seeing your thought process right now. There are also other reasons why this is the case, i.e. the direction CW went and introduction of weird tanks. However, what I'm describing plays in my opinion the biggest role in this. Even though T8 CW is littered with Defenders and Progettos, the tier 8 global map is always filled with clans anyway. 

You can't just almost remove CW and then ask players why they're not playing anymore. 

 

CW is the most competitive and original format for Clans. The flagship game mode (or at least, it used to be) for Clans. You can choose your maps, plan days ahead, conduct diplomacy and do much more. This is what competitive players from all games all over the world made go "WOW!". It is unlike any other competitive mode. There is adventure involved in it. You neglected it. You turned players away by, among other things, doing this. Now, you have to sell double barreled tanks to give people a small sense of "originality". 

 

You added provinces with 0 gold income to CW in 2019, and many clans settled on them. You can see right there that people want to play CW. No matter what.

 

And on a sidenote... if you're intending to start chatting about how some clans choose to be static on the map: 

You're making it very attractive. All you have to do as a diplomat is to keep yourself in a certain situation for a month. No further planning required. There won't be any further threats coming at you.

Remember, the biggest rivalries we have witnessed in CW all came after a couple of months. And boi, once such rivalry started, it continued for a looong time. 

 

So... 

STOP being silent. Communicate about what you're planning for CW. Don't put us up with weird surprises.

and

STOP freezing CW!

 

Update:

Additional points:

 

- The best part of competition is being able to choose your opponent. CW provides this opportunity. SH does not anymore. 

 

- If you're not convinced of running CW 365/year like proposed, you should run a smaller portion of the map between seasons with lower gold income, because there always will be clans wanting to play CW. There is 0 reason to deprive people of their favourite gamemode. Many clans also want to keep training. 

I expect, however, that even if the full map runs for 365 days, the map will always be full of clans. There are enough clans eager to land. Enough clans waiting for an opportunity.

 

- That one clan doesn't want to play CW doesn't mean that the rest shouldn't. If players in a particular clan want to focus on Frontline, they are welcome to leave the global map. It's a sandbox for a reason. Space will open up for one of the other many clans eager to land. 

 

- Combining Clan Wars with Frontlines is not impossible. Many clans do it. If you're already on the map, you often only have battles in just one particular timezone. No big deal. Otherwise you just rotate players. 

Even clans playing landing tournaments can find ways to combine, and many are doing it. 

And let me note that the vast majority of players in CW clans don't own special tanks like 260 and 279e. You can see by this where their priorities lie. They turn up for CW and SH instead of grinding for these tanks.

 

- When CWs are frozen, it's not like as if every clan suddenly goes into a break to grind stuff or something. SHs are more active than ever. Clans keep playing. SH sessions are in many occasions even more time consuming than Clan Wars.

 

 

 


Edited by Firefly__xD, 18 September 2019 - 01:30 PM.


StinkyStonky #2 Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:24 PM

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Clan Wars is the most popular mode in SJA.  At least at the start of any season.

 

It's the only mode where you know in advance what the map will be.

 

It's a shame that there isn't a single mode where you can directly challenge an individual clan.

 

For me the breaks in CWs are welcome.  I just wish there wasn't a relentless stream of CWs/Ranked/Frontlines/HomeFront/Frontlines/Steel Hunter/Wacky Races/etc with barely a days break.

 

It was great to be able to finish Steel Hunter early and ignore the mode for a week after that.



Ceeb #3 Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:33 PM

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Yeah, we need more reward tanks more often,   soon the 907s and Chieftains will be the only thing played

Firefly__xD #4 Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:35 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 17 September 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

Clan Wars is the most popular mode in SJA.  At least at the start of any season.

 

It's the only mode where you know in advance what the map will be.

 

It's a shame that there isn't a single mode where you can directly challenge an individual clan.

 

For me the breaks in CWs are welcome.  I just wish there wasn't a relentless stream of CWs/Ranked/Frontlines/HomeFront/Frontlines/Steel Hunter/Wacky Races/etc with barely a days break.

 

It was great to be able to finish Steel Hunter early and ignore the mode for a week after that.

You brought up a big point that I forgot to mention: the ability to choose your opponent. That single thing accounts for most of the competitiveness. Sadly, such ability was removed from SHs. 

Well, if we take another look at it: it may not have been the best system back then. People wanted to play CW in the evenings, so they set their SH defense time at 4am. 

However, now that we have CW freezes, you can re-introduce that during the freezes so that at least a bit of competitiveness remains (and force clans to choose a sensible time). It's a big missed opportunity right there. 

 

As for the "relentless stream" of events, I'm not too concerned about that.

I'm fine with events running in parralel with CW. One needs to have options. Having options means there is always something to do that you like. I dont need WG telling me what I can play and what I can not play. If I choose to play CW, so be it.

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View PostCeeb, on 17 September 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

Yeah, we need more reward tanks more often,   soon the 907s and Chieftains will be the only thing played

Reward tanks are unrelated to this topic. You can't win reward tanks in normal CWs.


Edited by Firefly__xD, 17 September 2019 - 02:45 PM.


StinkyStonky #5 Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:45 PM

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View PostFirefly__xD, on 17 September 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

As for the "relentless stream" of events, I'm not too concerned about that.

I'm fine with multiple events running in parralel. One needs to have options. Having options means there is always something to do that you like. I dont need WG telling me what I can play and what I can not play. If I choose to play CW, so be it.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

Trust me, it's frustrating enough when you have 30 players on line and only 12 join the clanwars team and you contact the other 18 and they don't want to do CWs because :-

 

They're getting an MoE, Completing a PM, just doing a few randoms, platooning with a buddy.

It's much more annoying when they have the far more legitimate reason that they are competing in Frontlines, Ranked, HomeFront, Steel Hunter, Wacky Races, completing a weekend or mid-week mission or some tank marathon, etc.

 

 



Firefly__xD #6 Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:47 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 17 September 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

Be careful what you wish for.

 

Trust me, it's frustrating enough when you have 30 players on line and only 12 join the clanwars team and you contact the other 18 and they don't want to do CWs because :-

 

They're getting an MoE, Completing a PM, just doing a few randoms, platooning with a buddy.

It's much more annoying when they have the far more legitimate reason that they are competing in Frontlines, Ranked, HomeFront, Steel Hunter, Wacky Races, completing a weekend or mid-week mission or some tank marathon, etc.

 

 

Luckily your clan has 100 spaces and if you fill them all with people who haven't left the game, you will always have 1 team for CW. 

 

And if WG doesn't push CW players away, you have an easier time recruiting CW players.

 

Plus!!!!

Remember what I said about options. If a certain clan doesn't want to play CW for a moment, that doesn't mean that all other clans also shouldn't. Each clan its own priority. There are enough clans ready to take their place on the global map. 


Edited by Firefly__xD, 17 September 2019 - 02:56 PM.


TheDrownedApe #7 Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:57 PM

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View PostFirefly__xD, on 17 September 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

Luckily your clan has 100 spaces and if you fill them all with people who haven't left the game, you will always have 1 team for CW.

 

And if WG doesn't scare CW players away, you have an easier time recruiting CW players.

We've just experimented in CW and tried to field one team. We had a core of 10-15 players who really wanted it and they consistently played but on occasions (mainly weekends) we struggled to fill the team. In the end it took 37 clan members to field a team all the time and play the 13 days. I'm not sure there is the appetite to play this mode more than 3/4 seasons throughout the year.


 

Do you know how many teams were fielded over the season compared with others?


Edited by TheDrownedApe, 17 September 2019 - 02:58 PM.


Firefly__xD #8 Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:05 PM

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View PostTheDrownedApe, on 17 September 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:

We've just experimented in CW and tried to field one team. We had a core of 10-15 players who really wanted it and they consistently played but on occasions (mainly weekends) we struggled to fill the team. In the end it took 37 clan members to field a team all the time and play the 13 days. I'm not sure there is the appetite to play this mode more than 3/4 seasons throughout the year.


 

Do you know how many teams were fielded over the season compared with others?

There is appetite to play it. Maybe just not in your clan. However, if you keep CW on, you will see the map will always be full. If 10 clans quit playing, 10 other clans will land in their place. 

As for IDEAL: almost 50% of the members aren't active (I also count the empty slots). You simply need more recruits. However, you're IDEAL, and you recruit only top players. In the past, there was a bigger pool of top CW players to recruit from. But we all know that the number of top CW players has decreased. 


Edited by Firefly__xD, 17 September 2019 - 03:06 PM.


StinkyStonky #9 Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:06 PM

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You complain about clans leaving clan wars and then dismiss the problem of players being lured away from clan wars by other, more exciting modes, just because YOU aren't interested in them.

 

When Frontlines is on we don't do ANY clan wars.  There's no point in even trying.  It's frustrating for the small number of players in the clan who aren't interested in Frontlines as their only option is legionnairing is SHs. 

 

SJA has about 80 players who haven't left the game and who have expressed an explicit desire to play the clan modes .... and yet we still struggle to fill 15 man teams.

 

A large part of the reason is because players become weary of ALWAYS having a "special" to grind.  So when they want a break, it's the most prolific mode (CWs) that has to supply that respite.

 

You worked out that CWs has already had 79 season days (so not including the 2-3 weeks of campaign we've also had).  By the end of the year Frontlines will have run for 70 days and that will deliver many people TWO reward tanks (plus gold and 1000s of bonds).



Firefly__xD #10 Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:08 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 17 September 2019 - 03:06 PM, said:

You complain about clans leaving clan wars and then dismiss the problem of players being lured away from clan wars by other, more exciting modes, just because YOU aren't interested in them.

 

When Frontlines is on we don't do ANY clan wars.  There's no point in even trying.  It's frustrating for the small number of players in the clan who aren't interested in Frontlines as their only option is legionnairing is SHs. 

 

SJA has about 80 players who haven't left the game and who have expressed an explicit desire to play the clan modes .... and yet we still struggle to fill 15 man teams.

 

A large part of the reason is because players become weary of ALWAYS having a "special" to grind.  So when they want a break, it's the most prolific mode (CWs) that has to supply that respite.

 

You worked out that CWs has already had 79 season days (so not including the 2-3 weeks of campaign we've also had).  By the end of the year Frontlines will have run for 70 days and that will deliver many people TWO reward tanks (plus gold and 1000s of bonds).

I've been in enough clans that played CW during Frontlines. And if you ever took a look on the global map, the fact that there were Frontlines on never led to the decrease of the amount of clans on the map. 

 

And my whole point is: as CW isnt always on, you can't choose to play CW when you want. You cant choose to play when there is no other event. You're missing alot of my points.


Edited by Firefly__xD, 17 September 2019 - 03:11 PM.


StinkyStonky #11 Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:12 PM

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View PostFirefly__xD, on 17 September 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

the fact that there were Frontlines on never led to the decrease of the amount of clans on the map. 

I'm willing to bet there were less players, less clans and less battles taking place.

 

The fact that the existing land owners just have an easier time holding their land, doesn't mean that concurrently running clan wars with other specials is successful or a good idea.

 

It would be nice if each Global Map event was followed by a week were there was nothing to do except randoms.



Firefly__xD #12 Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:14 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 17 September 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

I'm willing to bet there were less players, less clans and less battles taking place.

 

The fact that the existing land owners just have an easier time holding their land, doesn't mean that concurrently running clan wars with other specials is successful or a good idea.

 

It would be nice if each Global Map event was followed by a week were there was nothing to do except randoms.

There are enough other clans eagerly waiting to take your land. If you're on the map and decrease your activity, you hold fewer provinces. That means new clans will land. So one could even reason that there are MORE clans on the global map during other events. 



fwhaatpiraat #13 Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:39 PM

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More campaigns would be great indeed, with new reward tanks also. And less tanks available per event. 5000 seems like a nice number to me.

Joggaman #14 Posted 17 September 2019 - 05:04 PM

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PayMore #15 Posted 17 September 2019 - 05:07 PM

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To many CW's would prolly increase the influx of fv4201/t95 too much, and people would leave this game!  But if they nerf the tank it could be an idea!

Firefly__xD #16 Posted 17 September 2019 - 05:51 PM

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View PostPayMore, on 17 September 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

To many CW's would prolly increase the influx of fv4201/t95 too much, and people would leave this game!  But if they nerf the tank it could be an idea!

You can't win reward tanks in normal seasons. It doesn't affect the tanks you mentioned. 

 

I'm saying this for the 2nd time now.

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View PostJoggaman, on 17 September 2019 - 05:04 PM, said:

Oh no, it's that clan with 2 active members, stripping thousands of their gamemode. 


Edited by Firefly__xD, 17 September 2019 - 05:51 PM.


Jumping_Turtle #17 Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:06 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 17 September 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

Be careful what you wish for.

 

Trust me, it's frustrating enough when you have 30 players on line and only 12 join the clanwars team and you contact the other 18 and they don't want to do CWs because :-

 

They're getting an MoE, Completing a PM, just doing a few randoms, platooning with a buddy.

It's much more annoying when they have the far more legitimate reason that they are competing in Frontlines, Ranked, HomeFront, Steel Hunter, Wacky Races, completing a weekend or mid-week mission or some tank marathon, etc.

 

 

 

This. With my other acount we started a new clan to focus more on teamplay like stronghold and clanwars.

 

But the constant stream of events killed of the whole clan. Nobody wants to practise when there are events to do and this year tops it all with one event after another. And in the rare weeks we have in between people are so fed up with the constant grind those evtans are they need a break from the game. We hardly get up a team anymore due to the events and their grindy nature.



Firefly__xD #18 Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:10 PM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 17 September 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:

 

This. With my other acount we started a new clan to focus more on teamplay like stronghold and clanwars.

 

But the constant stream of events killed of the whole clan. Nobody wants to practise when there are events to do and this year tops it all with one event after another. And in the rare weeks we have in between people are so fed up with the constant grind those evtans are they need a break from the game. We hardly get up a team anymore due to the events and their grindy nature.

I dont know why you all feel forced to get every single achievement. Just play the gamemode you like. 

 

Also, I see many clans able to combine the two. Especially many clans that are on the map only need to play on one timezone. No big deal. 



Jumping_Turtle #19 Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:41 PM

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View PostFirefly__xD, on 17 September 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

Just play the gamemode you like. 

 

 

But they do and clanwars suffers because of that.



Firefly__xD #20 Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:53 PM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 17 September 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

 

But they do and clanwars suffers because of that.

Usually, even in clans where lots of ppl want to complete missions, they manage to fill their CW teams. In clans where people dont always put CW at top priority, they do rotation of players. 

A 100-man clan should be able to field 15 players at a time. 

To get a 100-man clan with alot of CW players (maybe in your case you dont rlly have CW players, but normal players who also play a bit of CW), you need to make the game/mode attractice to CW players. When map is fozen more often than it is online, the amount of CW players decreases. Furthermore, reasons to join a clan diminish, because only for CW literally everyone is required to be in a clan. So you're also missing out on players who would also sometimes participate.

It's just not a good situation for clans wishing to participate in Clan Wars right now. You have moments when the clan can, but at that time CW is coincidentally frozen. That's what I mean with WG deciding when you can play instead of you being able to make the decision by yourself. In the past there were several clans that only took part during certain months. Now, if those clans have bad luck with timing, they dont get to participate at all. 






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