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PRO league proposal for WG


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TheNightFox #1 Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:30 AM

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There is well discussed recent topic about ''pro's ruining the game". It has a fair amount of toxicity and I would really like to get some visibility on this idea of mine, so I'm creating a new topic here.

 

Instead of being toxic let's post some constructive ideas, no matter if the original intention was trolling or whining or not. I think that being good is not to something to be bashed upon, good for them, those that play at unicum level. Are they "ruining" the game? I would go that far. Still I will point this out, taking an example from outside online gaming. In cycling there are pros and there are amateurs. That's not to say that amateurs are bad, actually the top amateurs are waaaaay better then you can imagine. Still, if they were to compete with pro's, they would never get on the podium, which would be a pity, because they invest so much in their hobby. That's why many cycling competitions have amateurs and pro's sometimes combined in the same lot, but actually pro's compete only with pro's and amateurs with amateurs.

 

Now in WoT we don't really have pro's, in the sense that almost nobody is making a living off it and doing it full time. Still, the community is old enough that some people can be called so. I think what WG could do is create a niche for pro's INSIDE their regular events (like CW or Ranked) where there are two leagues, and maybe people can opt in voluntarily for pro status. I can imagine that some would rather club seals and not opt in, but many would be proud enough to do it, and get a visible PRO status or such. I think this could be COOL with the right implementation, and I think WoT community is ready for this and would benefit off it after so many years.

 

I really hope someone from WG would read this.



Laukaus #2 Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:38 AM

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Of course they read. And laugh. 

TheNightFox #3 Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:43 AM

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View PostLaukaus, on 18 September 2019 - 10:38 AM, said:

Of course they read. And laugh. 

Why would they?



Laukaus #4 Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:52 AM

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Sorry, I dont want to get banned, so no answer. 

 



LordMuffin #5 Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:56 AM

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Personally I wouldn't care about using such an option.

KINGPIN65 #6 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:06 AM

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If you can't handle someone being better than you at a game, maybe you should stick to single player games.No need for solutions of problems that don't exist.



Laukaus #7 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:09 AM

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View PostKINGPIN65, on 18 September 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

If you can't handle someone being better than you at a game, maybe you should stick to single player games.No need for solutions of problems that don't exist.

0 battle, 84 messages. How much WG pays to you? 



tajj7 #8 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostLaukaus, on 18 September 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

0 battle, 84 messages. How much WG pays to you? 

 

He has over 13k battles.

 

He is also right.

 

Single players games are that way -> 

 

Go play one of them if you want the game easier. 



Lagalaza #9 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:16 AM

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It really is a non-issue. Players being amazingly good are few and far between. When I encounter them, I find them a joy to watch, even if they are blowing me to pieces inside two minutes!! It's great when one is on your team, just die early and follow them for a free lesson in how to "git gud". They also usually get you a win no matter how bad you play.

TheNightFox #10 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:27 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 18 September 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

 

He has over 13k battles.

 

He is also right.

 

Single players games are that way -> 

 

Go play one of them if you want the game easier. 

Nah, I'll rather keep playing mp when I feel like it, and make a proposal when I have an idea. One can promote his opinion freely in some countries. I don't mind if you disagree though. ;)

 

On the other hand disagreeing and being nasty are different things. But rest assured, I can take your kind too.

10:29 Added after 1 minute

View PostLagalaza, on 18 September 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

It really is a non-issue. Players being amazingly good are few and far between. When I encounter them, I find them a joy to watch, even if they are blowing me to pieces inside two minutes!! It's great when one is on your team, just die early and follow them for a free lesson in how to "git gud". They also usually get you a win no matter how bad you play.

Actually I was referring to competitive modes, not randoms, sorry if I didn't make that clear.



tajj7 #11 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:32 AM

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View PostTheNightFox, on 18 September 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

Nah, I'll rather keep playing mp when I feel like it, and make a proposal when I have an idea. One can promote his opinion freely in some countries. I don't mind if you disagree though. ;)

 

On the other hand disagreeing and being nasty are different things. But rest assured, I can take your kind too.

10:29 Added after 1 minute

Actually I was referring to competitive modes, not randoms, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

I didn't reply to you and there was nothing 'nasty' in what I said. 

 

Also SHs has SBMM (which is terrible and has ruined the mode) and ranked is essentially skill based MM because the better players progress the higher ranks, so your proposal doesn't really make much sense.  Similar in CWs were landing tournaments are just that, the best teams will generally compete at the end for the territory and the lesser teams will lose in the earlier rounds. 


Edited by tajj7, 18 September 2019 - 11:34 AM.


Lagalaza #12 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:32 AM

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View PostTheNightFox, on 18 September 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

Nah, I'll rather keep playing mp when I feel like it, and make a proposal when I have an idea. One can promote his opinion freely in some countries. I don't mind if you disagree though. ;)

 

On the other hand disagreeing and being nasty are different things. But rest assured, I can take your kind too.

10:29 Added after 1 minute

Actually I was referring to competitive modes, not randoms, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

Ok. I understand. Don't play them so don't really know what effect the better players have. I am about to join a clan that seems to compete regularly so I'll come back to you on this one....:)



TheNightFox #13 Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:52 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 18 September 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

 

I didn't reply to you and there was nothing 'nasty' in what I said. 

 

Also SHs has SBMM (which is terrible and has ruined the mode) and ranked is essentially skill based MM because the better players progress the higher ranks, so your proposal doesn't really make much sense.  Similar in CWs were landing tournaments are just that, the best teams will generally compete at the end for the territory and the lesser teams will lose in the earlier rounds. 

Ok, now we are talking (by the way, telling people not to play IS nasty, one can get used to nastiness and not recognize it anymore though). Ranked does have the ranking system, but for some reason it's really spread out, some division 1 players competing in D3, and looking at the numbers, it's not a MM necessity. Also, and here's where I was aiming with my proposal, although in both modes (Ranked and CW) eventually there is some separation between skill levels, which is good, I think that a 'PRO' league would be beneficial both for lesser and for more skilled players. As I said, it's nice for some to deal with the tougher competition, and status is always an incentive in MP games, and it's also satisfactory to make the top in the amateur league.

 

So I don't see this idea necessarily as "the fix" to fix all wrongs, or to make everyone happy, but a mean to spice up things for better players, and to incentivise more people at the same time.

 

Look, I am a bit late to the party, I didn't play that much WoT, so I just arrived in the green-teal recents category. But I know a thing of two about being really good in a MP game, and I am happy to play in the PRO league in a game where I make top 5%. Clubbing seals is boring for some people.


Edited by TheNightFox, 18 September 2019 - 11:56 AM.


Cobra6 #14 Posted 18 September 2019 - 12:00 PM

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This is a competitive online multiplayer game, the clue is in the description.

 

SBMM has pretty much single handedly ruined skirmishes so introducing it, or anything like it, in randoms will only make things worse.

 

If you get pissed off by someone being better then you, improve, it's that easy. We all did it ourselves as well.

 

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TheNightFox #15 Posted 18 September 2019 - 12:05 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 18 September 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

This is a competitive online multiplayer game, the clue is in the description.

 

SBMM has pretty much single handedly ruined skirmishes so introducing it, or anything like it, in randoms will only make things worse.

 

If you get pissed off by someone being better then you, improve, it's that easy. We all did it ourselves as well.

 

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It's a pity that you don't take the time to actually read the thread before replying.



tajj7 #16 Posted 18 September 2019 - 12:14 PM

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View PostTheNightFox, on 18 September 2019 - 10:52 AM, said:

Ok, now we are talking (by the way, telling people not to play IS nasty, one can get used to nastiness and not recognize it anymore though). Ranked does have the ranking system, but for some reason it's really spread out, some division 1 players competing in D3, and looking at the numbers, it's not a MM necessity. Also, and here's where I was aiming with my proposal, although in both modes (Ranked and CW) eventually there is some separation between skill levels, which is good, I think that a 'PRO' league would be beneficial both for lesser and for more skilled players. As I said, it's nice for some to deal with the tougher competition, and status is always an incentive in MP games, and it's also satisfactory to make the top in the amateur league.

 

So I don't see this idea necessarily as "the fix" to fix all wrongs, or to make everyone happy, but a mean to spice up things for better players, and to incentivise more people at the same time.

 

Look, I am a bit late to the party, I didn't play that much WoT, so I just arrived in the green-teal recents category. But I know a thing of two about being really good in a MP game, and I am happy to play in the PRO league in a game where I make top 5%. Clubbing seals is boring for some people.

 

I didn't tell someone to play another game, I said there was another option if you wanted an easier game.

 

Ranks in ranked are only spread out like that when there is a population issue to fill closer games, I played through to the end and at peak times you'd mainly see people your rank or just below.

 

Which is a fundamental flaw wit any ranked or league system because your top level players will be few in number and thus the MM will struggle to make games.

 

And like I said SHs have SBMM anyway, if you are good clan you end up only playing the same clans over and over which is boring as hell, and in tournaments the cream basically rises to the top so your challenge increases as you progress. 



TankkiPoju #17 Posted 18 September 2019 - 12:25 PM

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Frankly, I don't see how "pro players" ruin games for others.

 

Bad players in WoT are usually so bad, they might as well not even play the game so how do good players ruin anything for them. What does it matter if you are going to shoot something once anyway and die.

 

Well, unless they are really bad and platoon. Then they just actively sabotage their own team.



TheNightFox #18 Posted 18 September 2019 - 12:36 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 18 September 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

 

I didn't tell someone to play another game, I said there was another option if you wanted an easier game.

 

Ranks in ranked are only spread out like that when there is a population issue to fill closer games, I played through to the end and at peak times you'd mainly see people your rank or just below.

 

Which is a fundamental flaw wit any ranked or league system because your top level players will be few in number and thus the MM will struggle to make games.

 

And like I said SHs have SBMM anyway, if you are good clan you end up only playing the same clans over and over which is boring as hell, and in tournaments the cream basically rises to the top so your challenge increases as you progress. 


You make some good points there. Yea, I do play SP when I am too tired for competition.

 

I hope next ranked season will bring enough changes to incentivise more players to join/keep playing the mode.

11:37 Added after 1 minute

View PostTankkiPoju, on 18 September 2019 - 12:25 PM, said:

Frankly, I don't see how "pro players" ruin games for others.

 

Bad players in WoT are usually so bad, they might as well not even play the game so how do good players ruin anything for them. What does it matter if you are going to shoot something once anyway and die.

 

Well, unless they are really bad and platoon. Then they just actively sabotage their own team.

 

I didn't say they are ruining the game either. I just see this PRO league thing as a potential good thing for the game. Old games like this one need to adapt to the playerbase aging process.

 

Look, I'm glad that the visuals are not the same as in 2014, also I appreciate a bunch of gameplay changes WG has done. I'm just looking forward for the next good ideas.

WG does recognize the need of good players to affirm their status. There are CW badges and such, plenty. PRO league would take it all to the next level.


Edited by TheNightFox, 18 September 2019 - 12:40 PM.


Cobra6 #19 Posted 18 September 2019 - 04:12 PM

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View PostTheNightFox, on 18 September 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:


It's a pity that you don't take the time to actually read the thread before replying.


You are trying to implement a system to "filter" good players out of the player pool.

How is this no thinly veiled SBMM?

 

Don't get me wrong, I applaud that you are much more subtle about it then most people but saying people can choose to be "pro's" or choose to "club seals" (insinuating good players are not allowed to have fun in lower tiers and/or inferior players if they so choose) sets the whole debate up a certain way.

 

And there are certainly pro's in this game, basically the top 2-3%'s of players are the pro's.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 18 September 2019 - 04:27 PM.


Dorander #20 Posted 18 September 2019 - 04:27 PM

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There is no inherent problem with the idea of having a mode where skill-based matchmaking of some sort occurs. Given what other players mention though this has been tried and apparently does not appeal to enough players.

 

What's more important though is that this doesn't solve the perceived problem people start out with in the first place, that there's something "unfair" about good players playing with the rest. If this mode exists and good players don't use it at all, or use it only infrequently, it doesn't do anything for the perception that "good players ruin the game", because this still happens. There's not even an indication the frequency would be affected or matter at all, because statistically good players are already in the minority. Last time I looked at a population curve by skill, nearly two-thirds of the game's active population was below the statistical average winrate (which was roughly 49%).

 

The reason people complain about good players is not because there's an abundance of good players ruining their games. It's simply because they're losing. Losing has far less to do with a good player doing good things and far more to do with bad players making too many early mistakes and tipping the game balance early, and as anyone with some experience knows this game has a snowball-effect. The impact of early team deaths on the end result is very apparent in low tiers (6 and lower), where we find many inexperienced players pulling all kinds of risky stunts and you frequently see an entire flank get wiped in the first two minutes.

 

Fact is, no optional idea is ever going to get good players out of randoms and no non-optional system is anything but unreasonable (see every discussion about SBMM ever) and potentially destructive. So while there's nothing wrong with the idea of an optional mode, one has to wonder: what problem is it supposed to solve?






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