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jabster #61 Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:26 AM

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View PostSovietBias, on 20 September 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

 

No doubt. And perhaps more importantly, cheats that completely wreck other FPS games, such as aimbots and aim leads have their effect dampened here due to RNG.

 

EDIT: the best available proxy for it are the number of accounts that WG periodically bans.


Can’t say I’m that convinced by the edit as my trust in WG to do any more than the minimum so they can claim that they take this matter very seriously, isn’t that high.



4nt #62 Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:32 AM

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Aimbots claiming to bypass any random factor is a lie, but when the makers of aimbots want money for non existent qualities on their cheat can you really put it past them to make fake vids? Sov gave us a perfect example of easy fake, shooting with say 261 that has low arc, splicing with CGC fire arc and presto cheat 'proven' to bypass normal restrictions.

Fake cheats aren't only WoT specific, essentially same aimbots were allegedly sold for 20e for fortnite that were freely available elsewhere, with fakevids made to give them extra abilities.

But of OP, how nice of them to omit all information about this survey. Perhaps it was made by the writer on his way to work? Peco is correct, you may or may not believe it, and frankly the 'article' (exaggeration, by any publishing criteria) doesn't give info either way.  

unhappy_bunny #63 Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:43 AM

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Not sure if this in on or off topic. Certainly not on the original topic, but conforms with how the thread seemed to progress.

 

Why does saying go "The proof of the pudding is in the eating", and not "The evidence of the pudding is in the eating"?

 

 



malachi6 #64 Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:52 AM

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My original point that evidence of cheating is not proof of cheating informs the post hoc fallacy.  The syllogism goes.  Cheating exists within World of Tanks.  Something I do not understand happened, therefore, cheating.  Logically you should stop at I do not understand until you have proof of cheating, by gathering more evidence. and testing it. 

 

Certainly, evidence can be proof but only once it is tested.

 

Did not intend to derail the thread but at least the discussion has been interesting rather than a rant.  Personally I would rather see more such discussions than the many baseless and self-entitled rants we often see.


Edited by malachi6, 20 September 2019 - 11:54 AM.


shikaka9 #65 Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:58 AM

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Cheating in Online Gaming ... OMG ... My Life is a Lie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



pecopad #66 Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:03 PM

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View Post4nt, on 20 September 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

Aimbots claiming to bypass any random factor is a lie, but when the makers of aimbots want money for non existent qualities on their cheat can you really put it past them to make fake vids? Sov gave us a perfect example of easy fake, shooting with say 261 that has low arc, splicing with CGC fire arc and presto cheat 'proven' to bypass normal restrictions.

Fake cheats aren't only WoT specific, essentially same aimbots were allegedly sold for 20e for fortnite that were freely available elsewhere, with fakevids made to give them extra abilities.

But of OP, how nice of them to omit all information about this survey. Perhaps it was made by the writer on his way to work? Peco is correct, you may or may not believe it, and frankly the 'article' (exaggeration, by any publishing criteria) doesn't give info either way.

 

You sound pretty sure of what you are saying....where did you come to this conclusion, have you seen the WoT code or have any insights the rest of us don't?

 

1/3rd of the players use some kind of cheats or hacks...Well,it used to be around 7% but its not hard to see an increase,since the new generation has very different gaming habits. Me for example I started gaming and had to play with iron rules, making the games harder. My kids the first thing they do in any game is find the codes to unlock stuff and play with unlimited funds. Korea and Russia are well known for the hack and cheats.

 

There are also games that cater specifically to cheaters and hacker and the mining community. PUBG was one of those games, they deliberately supported cheating and hacking mines in Asia and sold 4 million copies on launch there. Anything designed for Korea for example is cheat friendly.CS Go is also another game that is cheater friendly, and that explains part of the success.

 

The last numbers I had access to were indeed very troubling... not only cheaters and hackers were increasing,but for example in games like PUBG, cheaters and hackers accounted for 80% of all kills in the server...

 

In WoT I think it is a pretty safe environment, although in Marathons and Events things get out of control, like we saw on steal hunter with teaming from clans.

 

Take 5-10 minutes and just spectate a frontline game...there is very weird stuff going up there....

 


Edited by pecopad, 20 September 2019 - 12:06 PM.


jabster #67 Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:07 PM

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View Post4nt, on 20 September 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

Aimbots claiming to bypass any random factor is a lie, but when the makers of aimbots want money for non existent qualities on their cheat can you really put it past them to make fake vids? Sov gave us a perfect example of easy fake, shooting with say 261 that has low arc, splicing with CGC fire arc and presto cheat 'proven' to bypass normal restrictions.

Fake cheats aren't only WoT specific, essentially same aimbots were allegedly sold for 20e for fortnite that were freely available elsewhere, with fakevids made to give them extra abilities.

But of OP, how nice of them to omit all information about this survey. Perhaps it was made by the writer on his way to work? Peco is correct, you may or may not believe it, and frankly the 'article' (exaggeration, by any publishing criteria) doesn't give info either way.


Could be worse, at one point all enemy locations were know but marked with spotted, or not, and then it was up to the client to correctly use this information.



pecopad #68 Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:08 PM

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View Postjabster, on 20 September 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:


Could be worse, at one point all enemy locations were know but marked with spotted, or not, and then it was up to the client to correctly use this information.

There are still players using the red dot cheat... that is for sure... But not that many fortunately.



jabster #69 Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 20 September 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

Of those surveyed. 

For all we know cheat usage may be different between different games - in fact,  I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

 

A third of the players in online games of Field of Glory II are using cheats, I’m very, very disappointed :)



4nt #70 Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:32 PM

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View Postjabster, on 20 September 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:


Could be worse, at one point all enemy locations were know but marked with spotted, or not, and then it was up to the client to correctly use this information.

Yep. That was explicially fixed before I created this acc. 

 

@peco, if I could access the code would I tell about it? But no, have to rely on Occams razor and the fact that no one has seen those things ingame- except you? Maybe put or search some wotreplays in, put timestaps to description and send links, no additional info needed so no name and shame involved.

 

Thing is: the ability to make vids out of any given thing has been easy since 2010, and exceedingly so since late developments. Hell, even such nub as me could splice up full 15 kill game from clips in my replay library, yet I cannot change my stats showing it's bs. More skilled and willing editor could make shots go around the corner and through buildings and without sharp scrutiny none would notice anything. So point is, video materiel is useless. And one could expect someone willing to cheat others by promising baseless utilities for money is also very ready to make Enemy shells Look like pingpong balls.


Edited by 4nt, 20 September 2019 - 12:43 PM.


spamhamstar #71 Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:33 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 20 September 2019 - 10:02 AM, said:


True, but right now the dictionary definition of "evidence" is information that increases the probability of a theory being true where additional evidence may be used to further refine that theory and that "proof" is information that categorically confirms the theory as a fact. So, no, they are not the same thing so he's still using the two incorrectly.

 

From "the dictionary"

 

evidence
 
noun: evidence
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
 
 
Similar:
proof
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
proof
noun: proof; plural noun: proofs
 
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
 
Similar: evidence
 
 
Seriously, at least try using google before you further embarrass yourself.
 


Jauhesammutin #72 Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:20 PM

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View Postmalachi6, on 19 September 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

 

That is actually the counter-evidence I was speaking of.  If you do not understand inertia then evidence of no motion is not proof of no motion,

No, those are false evidence.

If I would get a picture of you using cheats then I would have evidence, thus I would have the proof that you are cheating.

Now If someone would tell me that you are cheating then I would have evidence of you cheating but I couldn't prove it, so it would be false evidence.

 

If we have evidence of players cheating then we have proof of cheating.

 

edit: didn't bother to read the rest of the thread before posting. Now I see that the thread is 4 pages of people arguing what "evidence" and "proof" mean^. So just forget what I said.


Edited by Jauhesammutin, 20 September 2019 - 01:22 PM.


jabster #73 Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:34 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 20 September 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

No, those are false evidence.

If I would get a picture of you using cheats then I would have evidence, thus I would have the proof that you are cheating.

Now If someone would tell me that you are cheating then I would have evidence of you cheating but I couldn't prove it, so it would be false evidence.

 

If we have evidence of players cheating then we have proof of cheating.

 

edit: didn't bother to read the rest of the thread before posting. Now I see that the thread is 4 pages of people arguing what "evidence" and "proof" mean^. So just forget what I said.


I can forgive but not forget :)



pecopad #74 Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:51 PM

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View Post4nt, on 20 September 2019 - 12:32 PM, said:

Yep. That was explicially fixed before I created this acc. 

 

@peco, if I could access the code would I tell about it? But no, have to rely on Occams razor and the fact that no one has seen those things ingame- except you? Maybe put or search some wotreplays in, put timestaps to description and send links, no additional info needed so no name and shame involved.

 

Thing is: the ability to make vids out of any given thing has been easy since 2010, and exceedingly so since late developments. Hell, even such nub as me could splice up full 15 kill game from clips in my replay library, yet I cannot change my stats showing it's bs. More skilled and willing editor could make shots go around the corner and through buildings and without sharp scrutiny none would notice anything. So point is, video materiel is useless. And one could expect someone willing to cheat others by promising baseless utilities for money is also very ready to make Enemy shells Look like pingpong balls.

 

Then like I thought you are assuming things like everyone else...

 

Wot replays has very little cheats, because you know with raw replay files its very easy to catch cheaters... actually here is a little exercise for you, please try to find any raw game file replays for the most well known players in WoT...never could find it....strange since they use the platform to replay some games from others...


There are plenty of vids of aimbots out there, if have never seen one its because you don't want, so stop playing the naive role...

 

Maybe I'm just more in tune and look for stuff you and many just ignore, I see some replays and sometimes I find weird unexplained stuff

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVBCapbrARA&lc=z22hxzzhbtiotj5y104t1aokgv5suz2unhhmrbzxokb1rk0h00410

 

Here for example one of the latest. There are other occasions when it happens, but its clear at 17:42... target acquired message when the sight is pointing to the sky...

 

Just weird...



HugSeal #75 Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:54 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 20 September 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

I think there are still some videos showing that... you just have to look it up..

 

No there aren't because there have never been shown to be such a thing. If there were such videos you would link the video and not jsut tell others to look it up.

 

 

View Postpecopad, on 20 September 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

1/3rd of the players use some kind of cheats or hacks...Well,it used to be around 7% but its not hard to see an increase,since the new generation has very different gaming habits. Me for example I started gaming and had to play with iron rules, making the games harder.

 

The last numbers I had access to were indeed very troubling... not only cheaters and hackers were increasing,but for example in games like PUBG, cheaters and hackers accounted for 80% of all kills in the server...

..

 

 

While you are at it you could show some data supporting these claims. Because the one third numbe seems to be completely pulled out of your donkey and the other one you claim you have had access to numbers supporting it not giving any useful information aout what those numbers are.

 

 

 


Edited by HugSeal, 20 September 2019 - 01:59 PM.


pecopad #76 Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:58 PM

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View PostHugSeal, on 20 September 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

 

No there aren't because there have never been shown to be such a thing. If there were such videos you would link the video and not jsut tell others to look it up.

 

Such a lovely naive avatar... suits you ...

 

So you are saying that there no videos of aimbots in WoT? LOL

 

We can't link videos or post files of cheats, you know that right? Also I'm not here trying to convince anyone... being gullible in online gaming is quite a remarkable  quality, I'm sure you enjoy much more games than the others... just like watching WWF and thinking its a real sport. Wish I could be like that, seriously... not being cynic here.


Edited by pecopad, 20 September 2019 - 01:59 PM.


HugSeal #77 Posted 20 September 2019 - 02:03 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 20 September 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

View PostHugSeal, on 20 September 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

 

No there aren't because there have never been shown to be such a thing. If there were such videos you would link the video and not jsut tell others to look it up.

 

Such a lovely naive avatar... suits you ...

 

So you are saying that there no videos of aimbots in WoT? LOL

 

We can't link videos or post files of cheats, you know that right? Also I'm not here trying to convince anyone... being gullible in online gaming is quite a remarkable  quality, I'm sure you enjoy much more games than the others... just like watching WWF and thinking its a real sport. Wish I could be like that, seriously... not being cynic here.

 

No, that is not what I am saying. It really helps the discussion if you stop making things up and at least try to remember what you have written.

 

Of course there are aimbots. But you claimed there are aimbots that don't have RNG. That is theimportant part you know. And you don't even have to link them, jsut direct us to the right spots or shoot me a PM with the video.

 

But let's be honest, we both know that's not gonna happen because you are either deluded or actively trying to decieve people. It's hard to tell which.

 

And no, you trying to hide it by making up strawmen and throwing out insults does not make you look more correct.

 

Your WWF comment is pretty funny though. You have someone who doesn't take everything they see as gospel and who doesn't believe every word someone trying to sell them something says. And yet you somehow feel that person is the gullible one and not yourself?


Edited by HugSeal, 20 September 2019 - 02:05 PM.


pecopad #78 Posted 20 September 2019 - 02:07 PM

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View PostHugSeal, on 20 September 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

No, that is not what I am saying. IT really helps the discussion if you stop making things up and at least try to remember what you have written.

 

Of course there are aimbots. But you claimed there are aimbots that don't have RNG. That is theimportant part you know. And you don't even have to link them, jsut direct us to the right spots or shoot me a PM with the video.

 

But let's be honest, we both know that's not gonna happen because you are either deluded or actively trying to decieve people. It's hard to tell which.

 

And no, you trying to hide it by making up strawmen and throwing out insults does not make you look more correct.

 

Aimbots I have seen don't have gun bloom, and shoot at where they are aiming.. there were some vids, turret snapping, shooting a tank and the gun facing other place...

 

I'm not here trying to convince of you of nothing... You believe in Santa Claus, good for you. Don't want to ruin your fun.

 

Didn't understand the straw-men reference honestly... I'm note even arguing here.



Baldrickk #79 Posted 20 September 2019 - 02:07 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 20 September 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

 

You sound pretty sure of what you are saying....where did you come to this conclusion, have you seen the WoT code or have any insights the rest of us don't?

 

1/3rd of the players use some kind of cheats or hacks...Well,it used to be around 7% but its not hard to see an increase,since the new generation has very different gaming habits. Me for example I started gaming and had to play with iron rules, making the games harder. My kids the first thing they do in any game is find the codes to unlock stuff and play with unlimited funds. Korea and Russia are well known for the hack and cheats.

 

There are also games that cater specifically to cheaters and hacker and the mining community. PUBG was one of those games, they deliberately supported cheating and hacking mines in Asia and sold 4 million copies on launch there. Anything designed for Korea for example is cheat friendly.CS Go is also another game that is cheater friendly, and that explains part of the success.

 

The last numbers I had access to were indeed very troubling... not only cheaters and hackers were increasing,but for example in games like PUBG, cheaters and hackers accounted for 80% of all kills in the server...

 

In WoT I think it is a pretty safe environment, although in Marathons and Events things get out of control, like we saw on steal hunter with teaming from clans.

 

Take 5-10 minutes and just spectate a frontline game...there is very weird stuff going up there....

 

 

 

View Postpecopad, on 20 September 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

 

Then like I thought you are assuming things like everyone else...

 

Wot replays has very little cheats, because you know with raw replay files its very easy to catch cheaters... actually here is a little exercise for you, please try to find any raw game file replays for the most well known players in WoT...never could find it....strange since they use the platform to replay some games from others...


There are plenty of vids of aimbots out there, if have never seen one its because you don't want, so stop playing the naive role...

 

Maybe I'm just more in tune and look for stuff you and many just ignore, I see some replays and sometimes I find weird unexplained stuff

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVBCapbrARA&lc=z22hxzzhbtiotj5y104t1aokgv5suz2unhhmrbzxokb1rk0h00410

 

Here for example one of the latest. There are other occasions when it happens, but its clear at 17:42... target acquired message when the sight is pointing to the sky...

 

Just weird...

 

 

Insights the rest of us don't have? No.

You maybe...

 

RNG is calculated server side.   It's always been this way.  This isn't anything new and shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. 

 

This is WOT, we don't really care about other games here. 

 

Well known players/streamers don't post their replays?

Well here's literally the first one I tried:

http://wotreplays.eu...lexes/id/298787

Nope. No replays there. None at all. 

 

 And that YouTube link?

Gun was pointed into the sky, the reticule was aimed right at the enemy tank however. 

Nothing dodgy there at all.

 

 



pecopad #80 Posted 20 September 2019 - 02:10 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 20 September 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

 

 

 

 

Insights the rest of us don't have? No.

You maybe...

 

RNG is calculated server side.   It's always been this way.  This isn't anything new and shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. 

 

This is WOT, we don't really care about other games here. 

 

Well known players/streamers don't post their replays?

Well here's literally the first one I tried:

http://wotreplays.eu...lexes/id/298787

Nope. No replays there. None at all. 

 

 And that YouTube link?

Gun was pointed into the sky, the reticule was aimed right at the enemy tank however. 

Nothing dodgy there at all.

 

 

You trully honnor your avatar... 

 

How the hell was he aiming at the tank.. he is  going uphill in a crest in a turretless tank... why would even use autoaim in the first place..

 

More inclined for it being a bug, honestly, it happens in other situations without any reason..

 

Tanks for the link..


Edited by pecopad, 20 September 2019 - 02:13 PM.





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