Jump to content


want to know why light tanks are not willing to spot?


  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

MegaDeltaFighter #1 Posted 26 September 2019 - 12:37 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 42297 battles
  • 132
  • [GRFIN] GRFIN
  • Member since:
    08-10-2016

with M41 bulldog for the top of tree missions I tried to  get spot damage score as much as possible.

so I risked to get close to enemy behind a bush and do passive spot. I did it and got 5710 spot damage score

but an enemy guessed where a light thank might be hiding and finally got close enough to spot me and I was dead in seconds after being spotted.

well it should not be a bad result for a light tank whose initial duty is to keep enemy spotted. I got patrol duty medal 3 bonds over 17k credit and ... but the mod I use shows I have got 0 as wn8 score for the battle. 

the next battle I hide behind bush in good distance and snipped enemy and some times used mobility to get close and circle enemy had 1269 damage and 592 not intended spot damage score, got 2765 as wn8 score

so if you care your wn8 results, you should try to damage enemy as much as possible even playing a light tank and for that, it is needed to keep enough distance from enemy to  remain not spotted while shooting. 

that's why light tanks need to act as a fast and light and mobile TD instead of trying to spot enemy. you can not change it while the wn8 is important and is a base to evaluate players skills, and while wn8 neglects spot damage value.


Edited by MegaDeltaFighter, 26 September 2019 - 12:55 PM.


Negativvv #2 Posted 26 September 2019 - 12:51 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 13155 battles
  • 1,856
  • [KEKE] KEKE
  • Member since:
    08-08-2015
WN8 is pre spotting gains I believe so adding it now would seriously mess up the calculations.

Spotting is a misnomer as people ask LTs to "spot" when they actually want them to yolo beyond the battle lines so the campers can get some assisting damage. On lots of corridor maps it's totally clear where the enemy is and you just need to wait them out.

Steffin #3 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:00 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 27419 battles
  • 430
  • [WOOF] WOOF
  • Member since:
    09-06-2011
I think most people just dont know how to properly scout and know that they will die without any xp when they try.  But wn8 might be a factor too.  Also a small group of people think their specific light tank is not meant for scouting so they dont scout, even when they have the most suited vehicle to do so.  (T49, bulldogs, auto loaders)

barison1 #4 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:02 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 43589 battles
  • 2,056
  • Member since:
    01-14-2012
any good LT player can do both high dmg (for LT standards obviously) and good spotting, you rarely need to passive spot all game. passive scout early game when people cross fixed places untill they reach their save HT corners or later in the game spot certain TD ridges when team pushes up etc, between those times you can just farm dmg and act as a lidl MT usually

TomatoShooter #5 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:12 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 1116 battles
  • 164
  • Member since:
    08-09-2014
I play to win, if that requires me to only passive spot and have 0 dmg myself, so be it. 

MegaDeltaFighter #6 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:17 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 42297 battles
  • 132
  • [GRFIN] GRFIN
  • Member since:
    08-10-2016

View Postbarison1, on 26 September 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

any good LT player can do both high dmg (for LT standards obviously) and good spotting, you rarely need to passive spot all game. passive scout early game when people cross fixed places untill they reach their save HT corners or later in the game spot certain TD ridges when team pushes up etc, between those times you can just farm dmg and act as a lidl MT usually

I just finished a game with the bulldog, most of game I snipped and when spotted used mobility to escape and hide, got 1929 damage score and 1825 spot damage score and even spotter medal for non intended spot damage score I have got. I had 4863 wn8 score and I am sure non of that value was for the spot score I got.

the point is that what playing style you choose on a light tank, you can not get good wn8 result with spotting in mind while playing a light tank, you just play in a way to be able to damage enemy, you may or may not get some unintended spot damage score as well.



SaintMaddenus #7 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:20 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 38052 battles
  • 2,602
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    03-04-2011

so are you saying that WN8 is detrimental to the game because too many people follow their "score" rather than play well?



fwhaatpiraat #8 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:29 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 58586 battles
  • 1,771
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    05-04-2013
I don't get your point, OP.

Mimos_A #9 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:35 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 29141 battles
  • 2,407
  • [SPESH] SPESH
  • Member since:
    05-30-2015

View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 26 September 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

I just finished a game with the bulldog, most of game I snipped and when spotted used mobility to escape and hide, got 1929 damage score and 1825 spot damage score and even spotter medal for non intended spot damage score I have got. I had 4863 wn8 score and I am sure non of that value was for the spot score I got.

the point is that what playing style you choose on a light tank, you can not get good wn8 result with spotting in mind while playing a light tank, you just play in a way to be able to damage enemy, you may or may not get some unintended spot damage score as well.


Who cares about wn8...

 

Also, the example in your first game, if you notice an enemy coming for you, gtfo while you can. Especially late games lights can be very valuable to the team, so staying alive is pretty important.



LordMuffin #10 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:41 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 52608 battles
  • 13,329
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011

View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 26 September 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

with M41 bulldog for the top of tree missions I tried to  get spot damage score as much as possible.

so I risked to get close to enemy behind a bush and do passive spot. I did it and got 5710 spot damage score

but an enemy guessed where a light thank might be hiding and finally got close enough to spot me and I was dead in seconds after being spotted.

well it should not be a bad result for a light tank whose initial duty is to keep enemy spotted. I got patrol duty medal 3 bonds over 17k credit and ... but the mod I use shows I have got 0 as wn8 score for the battle. 

the next battle I hide behind bush in good distance and snipped enemy and some times used mobility to get close and circle enemy had 1269 damage and 592 not intended spot damage score, got 2765 as wn8 score

so if you care your wn8 results, you should try to damage enemy as much as possible even playing a light tank and for that, it is needed to keep enough distance from enemy to  remain not spotted while shooting. 

that's why light tanks need to act as a fast and light and mobile TD instead of trying to spot enemy. you can not change it while the wn8 is important and is a base to evaluate players skills, and while wn8 neglects spot damage value.

Why would you ever care about a rather useless metric such as wn8?

Maybe stop stetpadding.

 

Reasons so few spot with lights is that extremely few light tanks actually know that they can spot enemies, or how to to it.


Edited by LordMuffin, 26 September 2019 - 01:43 PM.


PowJay #11 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:44 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 39864 battles
  • 5,397
  • Member since:
    09-07-2012
Spot on. The only thing I think about when I play LTs is my Wn8. :facepalm:

tajj7 #12 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:47 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 28175 battles
  • 16,225
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

Light tanks don't spot because often they get massively punished for doing so and their survability is very limited.

 

When you design maps that massively favour passive campers (especially after the initial win a brawling corridor stage) is it any wonder that someone in a paper tank with low hit points doesn't want to go forward, when they know an FV4005, a tank the size of a house, with the worst base camo in the game an a 75% crew is still able to outspot them because of how OP bushes are (and is then able to one shot them). Or when you have Strvs with 65% base camo IN THE OPEN and 500m + view range because of no penalties for binos, that every light tank in the game is not able to pen frontally. Or when you have base camping ledges that have elevation, hard cover, concealment and are approached from every direction by open ground and usually is a nest for 3-5 TD bobs.

 

Has very little to do with WN8 IMO and everything to do with map design and the changes made to maps in 1.0, both making bushes absurd and giving every map OP base camping ledges. So if you play a light more than half the maps are corridor maps where everyone brawls at 100m and all that matters is armour and alpha so you just have to wait and hope your team does something so you can do something. 

 

Then the rest of the maps where spotting should have some value, all the advantages sit with the passive campers.

 

The best spotters in the game are heavies that can get to hull down spots where they are close to invulnerable, an IS7 with its troll hull armour, near invincible turret and 60kph is a much better spotter for most scenarios than most light tanks are. 


Edited by tajj7, 26 September 2019 - 01:49 PM.


1ucky #13 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:48 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 85391 battles
  • 1,244
  • [THRIL] THRIL
  • Member since:
    11-05-2013

TL;DR

#WhineThread

#WN8



MegaDeltaFighter #14 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:49 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 42297 battles
  • 132
  • [GRFIN] GRFIN
  • Member since:
    08-10-2016

View PostMimos_A, on 26 September 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:


Who cares about wn8...

 

Also, the example in your first game, if you notice an enemy coming for you, gtfo while you can. Especially late games lights can be very valuable to the team, so staying alive is pretty important.

I did try to escape I could not, there is good positions for passive spot in some maps close enough to enemy lines, the bad thing is that you get locked there and almost no way to escape unless all enemy in that area are snipped and wiped out. and most of people care about wn8,it is the most widely used evaluation method for players skill.   



vasilinhorulezz #15 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:51 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27921 battles
  • 1,994
  • Member since:
    09-26-2014
A lot of people don't know how to do it effectively, and lack knowledge off the key locations to spot and map positions to hide their tank, the effect of this is, people go ham and yolo-scout with little success, or camp a TD position for the rest of the game. Also, scouting is a role, and it doesn't always go as planned, some times you need to retreat, or not risk your tank to go to a location, so you need to back off and try at a different time, or a lot of times, like I do on Prokorovka and some other maps, try to do scout runs on different locations (hill, then mid and then hill again, or try to spot the 1-2 line etc.). It all depends, not every game will go exactly the some as the previous ones, so you need to try different approaches. Still, if you're driving anything that's not arta or camping TDs, you can spot for your self. Scouting is not a specific tank class job, it's a role, and some times there are better tanks to do it than lights.

MegaDeltaFighter #16 Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:59 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 42297 battles
  • 132
  • [GRFIN] GRFIN
  • Member since:
    08-10-2016

View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 26 September 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

I don't get your point, OP.

there has been many questions, some raised in different topics in forums asking why light tanks are not willing to spot enemy while their main duty in the battle field is spotting enemy, some was angry with new game version feature that disables team-damage, complaining why they are unable to shoot and destroy team mate light tanks that do not obey their command to go and die, making them able to have some shots toward enemy and miss. I am trying to provide an answer to that questions. 



Balc0ra #17 Posted 26 September 2019 - 02:00 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 72817 battles
  • 20,698
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

Well, as an LT player. I can tell you that I turn to my gun more so then my view range. Why? Because after keeping 5 targets spotted killing our flank everyone 100% ignores and with 300 assist. I farm damage instead to help out. And then suddenly everyone pings the map asking for a spot. I go back to spot... still they 100% ignore it.

 

That's why.

 

 



Mimos_A #18 Posted 26 September 2019 - 02:18 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 29141 battles
  • 2,407
  • [SPESH] SPESH
  • Member since:
    05-30-2015

View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 26 September 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

there has been many questions, some raised in different topics in forums asking why light tanks are not willing to spot enemy while their main duty in the battle field is spotting enemy, some was angry with new game version feature that disables team-damage, complaining why they are unable to shoot and destroy team mate light tanks that do not obey their command to go and die, making them able to have some shots toward enemy and miss. I am trying to provide an answer to that questions. 

I'd seek the reason more in the "teammates can't shoot worth a damn" category than the wn8 category. If I'm keeping 5 tanks lit and they don't take significant damage, I'm off doing useful stuff. It's probably closely related to the amount of people crying about wheelies: people for some reason think it's fine to aim like crap in a game where you have to shoot and hit stuff.



tajj7 #19 Posted 26 September 2019 - 02:24 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 28175 battles
  • 16,225
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014
Idiots who shoot lights for not spotting is exactly why removing team damage was such a good change. 

shikaka9 #20 Posted 26 September 2019 - 02:33 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 70582 battles
  • 950
  • [-SJA-] -SJA-
  • Member since:
    02-27-2013

To ban list

 

.....

24. Team Damage

25. XVM (soon)

26. WN8

....

 

:trollface:






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users