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B-C 25t AP engine!


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_6i6_ #1 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:04 AM

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Does it have the engine outside the chassis or what? I had read it is prone to engine damage(as is most of the tanks in the line) but in the first

5 games, in all of them  engine got damaged, in two games had it twice damaged!

Is it worth using double repair kits and remove either first aid or auto fire extinguisher? 

 

 

 



Kartoshkaya #2 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:06 AM

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Don't get shoot ?

Mimos_A #3 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:12 AM

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It's almost tempting to drive backwards in it. But yes, the engine falls apart pretty much as soon as someone looks at you funny. The whole tank is hilariously thrash in the current meta. Gun handling to bad to shoot on the move or take quick shots, tragic inter-shot reload and you spend half your games on fire and/or with a broken engine. And if you're exceptionally lucky you get a dead driver with it as well :D

_6i6_ #4 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:17 AM

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@Mimos_A
Yes i did consider the backwards driving!
It's ridiculous how easy it gets engine damage compared especially to 13 90

XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:18 AM

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  • The engine is that big pink box at the back. It's a big module with low HP (160) and without any armor to protect it.

 

  • If you repair a damaged module, in this case the engine. It continues to live with even less HP (100) so it's easier to damage it again with smaller caliber guns this time.

 

  • By the way, that huge yellow box at the front is the ammo rack. ;)

 

  • Using two repair kits won't help much really. You don't have a lot of HP to take a lot of shots. The best strategy is to not get hit in the first place. Snipe and be careful with your exposure.
10:19 Added after 1 minute

View Post_6i6_, on 01 October 2019 - 02:17 PM, said:

@Mimos_A
Yes i did consider the backwards driving!
It's ridiculous how easy it gets engine damage compared especially to 13 90

 

The 13 90 engine has 360 HP so more than twice the engine of the tier 9 BC.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 01 October 2019 - 11:20 AM.


TankkiPoju #6 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:22 AM

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Tier 9 batchat and T54E1 are dinosaurs from old era of autoloaders.

 

Back then, WG thought autoloaders should be balanced by having bad pen and/or bad gun handling.

 

Of course with Czech autoloaders, that was pretty much forgotten. And now tanks like Standard B have 268mm pen with an autoreloader, because why not.

 

EDIT: T54E1 and tier 9 batchat have less pen with premium rounds than Standard B with regular rounds. Not power creep at all.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 01 October 2019 - 11:53 AM.


Mimos_A #7 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:26 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 October 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

 

  • The engine is that big pink box at the back. It's a big module with low HP (160) and without any armor to protect it.

 

  • If you repair a damaged module, in this case the engine. It continues to live with even less HP (100) so it's easier to damage it again with smaller caliber guns this time.

 

  • By the way, that huge yellow box at the front is the ammo rack. ;)

 

  • Using two repair kits won't help much really. You don't have a lot of HP to take a lot of shots. The best strategy is to not get hit in the first place. Snipe and be careful with your exposure.
10:19 Added after 1 minute

 

The 13 90 engine has 360 HP so more than twice the engine of the tier 9 BC.

 

Sniping is pretty pointless with that gun, half your shots will just do nothing, fly off into nowhere or just bounce. The only way I managed to do somewhat consistent damage in it is ambush people, clip the hell out of them and run away (or limp away, you know, cause they shot you once, so your engine is dead).



XxKuzkina_MatxX #8 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:35 AM

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View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

Sniping is pretty pointless with that gun, half your shots will just do nothing, fly off into nowhere or just bounce. The only way I managed to do somewhat consistent damage in it is ambush people, clip the hell out of them and run away (or limp away, you know, cause they shot you once, so your engine is dead).

 

Sniping and spotting till mid or late game is the standard procedure with these tanks. Start to lose HP earlier, probably modules too, and you're hurting your potential late in the game. The stock accuracy is 0.35 which is not bad at all if you let the gun fully aim.



_6i6_ #9 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:37 AM

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Even fully aimed it has a lot of shots going in the outer area of the rectangle. Guess as said it is a forgotten tank. Same problems apply to the tier x as well?

Mimos_A #10 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:43 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 October 2019 - 11:35 AM, said:

 

Sniping and spotting till mid or late game is the standard procedure with these tanks. Start to lose HP earlier, probably modules too, and you're hurting your potential late in the game. The stock accuracy is 0.35 which is not bad at all if you let the gun fully aim.

 

It's way too inconsistent accuracy-wise to waste shots sniping. With the long clip reload you'll just be wasting your time. Spotting, hell yes, sniping, hell no. It's way more useful to get in a position to ambush someone who overcommits and gets himself isolated, take on or two shots in return, gtfo and rinse-repeat. The accuracy doesn't seem so bad on paper, but it's one of those thrash guns that looks fine stats-wise, but behaves like a turd in practice.


Edited by Mimos_A, 01 October 2019 - 11:45 AM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #11 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:49 AM

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View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 02:43 PM, said:

It's way too inconsistent accuracy-wise to waste shots sniping. With the long clip reload you'll just be wasting your time. Spotting, hell yes, sniping, hell no. It's way more useful to get in a position to ambush someone who overcommits and gets himself isolated, take on or two shots in return, gtfo and rinse-repeat. The accuracy doesn't seem so bad on paper, but it's one of those thrash guns that looks fine stats-wise, but behaves like a turd in practice.

 

Again, 0.35 stock accuracy is not bad at all and the way accuracy works in this game it can snipe quite well. I guess different people have different play styles. Ambushing and isolating someone to clip him safely rarely happens at the start of the typical battle.



_6i6_ #12 Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:59 AM

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So then would it be more worth it to go for its bigger brother?

Mimos_A #13 Posted 01 October 2019 - 12:09 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 October 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

 

Again, 0.35 stock accuracy is not bad at all and the way accuracy works in this game it can snipe quite well. I guess different people have different play styles. Ambushing and isolating someone to clip him safely rarely happens at the start of the typical battle.

As I said, the accuracy may seem nice on paper, but 0.35 and 232 pen really isn't good enough to reliably do anything useful at range. Especially since on most maps at range you'll be shooting the fronts of enemies. Start with a spotting run, see what the enemy team is doing, you have the first minute on reload anyway, Then start looking for someone being dumb or a light overextending, pounce on the dude, get out. Don't try to look for crappy shots, wait for the right opportunity. If you take some meh shots, you'll risk being on your terrible reload when someone does an epic derp that could be your ticket to damage and a dead enemy. If you sit at range with that thing, you'll just be gimping yourself and your team.

11:13 Added after 4 minute

View Post_6i6_, on 01 October 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

So then would it be more worth it to go for its bigger brother?


Bigger brother is better, but in randoms it's really struggling to deal with more "meta" tanks. Corridors and overarmoured monstrosities mean you have to be super super careful all the time. It's a really fun tank when it works, it's a horrible POS if your gun decides to throw a hissy fit and/or you meet nothing but 907's and 430u's.


Edited by Mimos_A, 01 October 2019 - 12:13 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #14 Posted 01 October 2019 - 12:26 PM

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View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

As I said, the accuracy may seem nice on paper,

 

Paper stats represent the actual performance 100% of the time. Feel free to prove otherwise!

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

but 0.35 and 232 pen really isn't good enough to reliably do anything useful at range.

 

If 232mm isn't enough there is always the 263mm gold.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

Especially since on most maps at range you'll be shooting the fronts of enemies.

 

Sounds to me like you have a positioning problem or at least that's what you're describing. The same sniping can be done from a better location at the enemy's flank.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

Then start looking for someone being dumb or a light overextending, pounce on the dude,

 

Basing your game play on the incompetence of others doesn't sound like the best strategy to me. I will stick with what works most of the time. By chasing an overextending enemy, you run the risk of doing the same thing yourself. I mean putting your tank in a bad position, losing HP and ultimately losing potential late in the game.

 

It has been said a million times about paper autoloaders: "Don't trade or lose HP early in the game". So how you do that while still being active? You look for sniping opportunities, spotting and good positions to deliver effective damage. The key feature here i think is keeping your distance from the enemy or staying hidden. Not running at the first opportunity to clip someone which is also known as the "one clip BC syndrome".

 

One thing to also keep in mind is that as the battle progress people will have less HP which makes it ideal for an autoloader to take out multiple enemies in one clip or to take out a problematic tank that isn't full HP.

 

Again, different people and different play styles. This can take 2 minutes or two days, your choice!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 01 October 2019 - 12:42 PM.


Mimos_A #15 Posted 01 October 2019 - 12:59 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 October 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

Paper stats represent the actual performance 100% of the time. Feel free to prove otherwise!

 

 

If 232mm isn't enough there is always the 263mm gold.

 

 

Sounds like you have a positioning problem to me or at least that's what you're describing. The same sniping can be done from a better location at the enemy's flank.

 

 

Basing your game play on the incompetence of others doesn't sound like the best strategy to me. I will stick with what works most of the time. By chasing an overextending enemy, you run the risk of doing the same thing yourself. I mean putting your tank in a bad position, losing HP and ultimately losing potential late in the game.

 

It has been said a million times about paper autoloaders: "Don't trade or lose HP early in the game". So how you do that while still being active? You look for sniping opportunities, spotting and good positions to deliver effective damage. The key feature here i think is keeping your distance from the enemy or staying hidden. Not running at the first opportunity to clip someone which is also known as the "one clip BC syndrome".

 

One thing to also keep in mind is that as the battle progress people will have less HP which makes it ideal for an autoloader to take out multiple enemies in one clip or to take out a problematic tank that isn't full HP.

 

Again, different people and different play styles. This can take 2 minutes or two days, your choice!

 

With all due respect, look at our damage and winrates in the thing... And where do I advocate "one clip bc-syndrome"? If anything I advocate picking your target right and waiting for the right opportunity. Different people, different playstyles, sure, but telling someone the bc AP is reliable at range is just false. Keeping your distance means you're going to need too much time to pounce on valuable opportunities. You can be plenty effective early on just spotting, both active and passive. Where do I tell anyone to "chase an overextending enemy"? I pretty much assume that when you're at tier 9, you're not dumb enough to chase yourself into trouble. Besides that, overextended means you can, at the very least, do a ton of damage BEFORE you need to start chasing.

 

You seem to think I'm in favour of running around the map like a madlad trying to clip out. That's not my point at all. I'm saying AMBUSH. Which means patience, looking at the map, keep spotting, relocate, position yourself well, planning your way out, looking for people who are way too distracted by your teammates etc. If you snipe, you're gonna waste way too many shots and risk being on a reload when you could be ending someone's game. It's simply no sniper, if you want to play it as a sniper, go ahead. But don't tell others to play like that with a tank that doesn't have the accuracy, alpha, gun handling or dpm to perform consistently as a sniper.

 

It might work sometimes and in some cases it's what you have to do, but if you're looking to CONSISTENTLY be useful and do well in the tank, it's just not its strength and it should not be your go-to strategy.


Edited by Mimos_A, 01 October 2019 - 01:06 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #16 Posted 01 October 2019 - 01:20 PM

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View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

With all due respect, look at our damage and winrates in the thing...

 

I don't care if you are a red bot or the most capable of unicums if you're talking tinfoil theories and think your opinion holds better value when faced with hard facts!

 

Show us a couple of your replays so we can can see for ourselves how it works otherwise it's still the same nonsense that nobody cares about.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

And where do I advocate "one clip bc-syndrome"? If anything I advocate picking your target right and waiting for the right opportunity.

 

You advocate some imaginary stuff that don't hold water. At the start of the battle, enemy tanks are full HP and huddled together in groups. The "isolating" and "ambushing" stuff you're talking about is just your imagination running wild. What i described in my posts above is how the average battles goes in reality.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

Different people, different playstyles, sure, but telling someone the bc AP is reliable at range is just false.

 

Another gem in a post that you should've kept to yourself. Where did i say that the 232mm AP is suitable for any target? Press '2' for more armored targets?

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

Keeping your distance means you're going to need too much time to pounce on valuable opportunities.

 

Again good positioning seems like a hard to understand concept for you. Sniping from a good position should be distinguishable from redlining and even if it comes to that. You will be more effective late game instead of doing something that might work or not.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

You can be plenty effective early on just spotting, both active and passive.

 

READ!

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

You seem to think I'm in favour of running around the map like a madlad trying to clip out. That's not my point at all. I'm saying AMBUSH. Which means patience, looking at the map, keep spotting, relocate, position yourself well, etc.

 

Ambushing someone usually doesn't happen till mid or late game which is exactly what i was saying in my posts. Feel free to read them again.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

if you want to play it as a sniper, go ahead. But don't tell others to play like that with a tank that doesn't have the accuracy, alpha, gun handling or dpm to perform consistently as a sniper.

 

Who are you to tell others what to do and what to say? If it's hard for you to imagine other play styles than yours for whatever reason, feel free to prove me wrong. Waiting for those glorious replays where you smash into the enemy lines, ambush that rogue light tank and end up with 10k damage and 17 kills!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 01 October 2019 - 02:29 PM.


_6i6_ #17 Posted 01 October 2019 - 01:37 PM

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Guys no need to get warped in it! The outcome i think is the tank needs a slight rebalance! From what you said and the little practice i had, it requires a very cautious playstyle, much more than its tier 9 sibling( dont know about the amx 30 yet though- i have no crew for it). Thanks both for your inputs :)

gunslingerXXX #18 Posted 01 October 2019 - 01:55 PM

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View Post_6i6_, on 01 October 2019 - 11:04 AM, said:

Does it have the engine outside the chassis or what? I had read it is prone to engine damage(as is most of the tanks in the line) but in the first

5 games, in all of them  engine got damaged, in two games had it twice damaged!

Is it worth using double repair kits and remove either first aid or auto fire extinguisher? 

 

 

 

I would recommend to keep the automatic fire extinghuiser. I used the manual one in the first part of my grind and burned soo often I think I even made a forum post about it. Changing to the automatic one gave a significant improvement!


Edited by gunslingerXXX, 01 October 2019 - 01:56 PM.


Mimos_A #19 Posted 01 October 2019 - 02:46 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 01 October 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

 

I don't care if you are a red bot or the most capable of unicums if you're talking tinfoil theories and think your opinion holds better value when faced with hard facts!

 

Show us a couple of your replays so we can can see for ourselves how it works otherwise it's still the same nonsense that nobody cares about.

 

 

You advocate some imaginary stuff that don't hold water. At the start of the battle, enemy tanks are full HP and huddled together in groups. The "isolating" and "ambushing" stuff you're talking about is just your imagination running wild. What i described in my posts above is how the average battles goes in reality.

 

 

Another gem in a post that you should've kept to yourself. Where did i say that the 232mm AP is suitable for any target? Press '2' for more armored targets?

 

 

Again good positioning seems like a hard to understand concept for you. Sniping from a good position should be distinguishable from redlining and even if it comes to that. You will be more effective late game instead of doing something that might work or not.

 

 

READ!

 

 

Ambushing someone usually doesn't happen till mid or late game which is exactly what i was saying in my posts. Feel free to read them again.

 

 

Who are you to tell others what to do and what to say? If it's hard for you to imagine other play styles than yours for whatever reason, feel free to prove me wrong. Waiting for those glorious replays where you smash into the enemy lines, ambush that rogue light tank and end up with 10k damage and 17 kills!

 

Okay, facts. 0.35 accuracy is not very good. Neither is 1000 km/h shell velocity. 44 seconds reload means you can't switch ammo types according to the target coming in, so unless you want to preload prem, (which isn't very good with 263mm to begin with), you're gonna find yourself stuck with what you've got a lot. All those characteristics mean it's not well suited to fight at range.

Ambushing early/mid game is very possible. You do realise sticking unspotted close to tanks that are about to get pushed and going in to clip out on the push is also ambushing? An ambush does not mean you have to find some 1v1 somewhere.

 

Again, play it as you like. Same goes for OP. Everyone should play as they see fit and what works for them. But advising people that "sniping is standard procedure" in a tank that is one of the worst meds at its tier for sniping is just nonsense.

 

And as for your 4th quote, you do realise by bc AP I mean the tank, not the ammo...



XxKuzkina_MatxX #20 Posted 01 October 2019 - 03:02 PM

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View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

Okay, facts. 0.35 accuracy is not very good. Neither is 1000 km/h shell velocity. 44 seconds reload means you can't switch ammo types according to the target coming in, so unless you want to preload prem, (which isn't very good with 263mm to begin with), you're gonna find yourself stuck with what you've got a lot. All those characteristics mean it's not well suited to fight at range.

 

More or less your issues not the tank's...

 

  • 0.35 STOCK is fine for me and you can push that to a very respectable 0.32 with equipment, BIA and food.

 

  • 1000 m/s not km/h! again good enough if you know how to lead and are not redlining 450 meters away.

 

  • The whole standard/gold ammo issue is not really an argument. If you play tier 9 or 10 you'll lose credits more often than not. There is no point here to play around the low pen or the low velocity. You earn credits to use the better things and do better yourself.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

Ambushing early/mid game is very possible. You do realise sticking unspotted close to tanks that are about to get pushed and going in to clip out on the push is also ambushing? An ambush does not mean you have to find some 1v1 somewhere.

 

That wolfpack thing also works but again it's depending on what your team are doing and whether they recognize an opportunity or not. For the third time, i will stick with what i know will work.

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

Again, play it as you like. Same goes for OP. Everyone should play as they see fit and what works for them. But advising people that "sniping is standard procedure" in a tank that is one of the worst meds at its tier for sniping is just nonsense.

 

So is advising people to take unnecessary risks or overestimating your skill level but we are beyond that at this point. Produce real evidence to back up your arguments or accept that there are other people who can and will do things differently.

 

What i said is "Sniping and spotting till mid or late game is the standard procedure with these tanks". I didn't say that sniping is the way to go or that the tank excels at it. It's part of the play style of paper autoloaders whether you like it or not. Try to read for crying out loud!

 

View PostMimos_A, on 01 October 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

And as for your 4th quote, you do realise by bc AP I mean the tank, not the ammo...

 

Doesn't change the fact that it DOES have a gold round with 263mm of penetration and arguing that the 232mm standard pen is all you've got is meaningless.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 01 October 2019 - 03:08 PM.





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