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Teach me about camo and when I'll spot TD's shooting from bushes.


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killer999death #1 Posted 02 October 2019 - 01:53 PM

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I hate TD's shooting me literally a spit distance away and not being able to spot them. 




When the bloody f**k am I going to spot a TD shitting in bushes and literally killing me from full HP when it's 150(?) meters away.

Balc0ra #2 Posted 02 October 2019 - 01:59 PM

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That would be true if he was inside the bush with the gun poking out. But when he backs off 15m behind it. He gets 50% extra camo factor from the bush. Or 80% as that's the cap if it's a double bush. Meaning your effective spotting distance vs that target is reduced massively. 

 

And say you have 400m on that T34. Vs an 80% bush camo target, that spotting distance is down to 120m at least. Regardless of the target, even an IS-6 could hide there if he backed off far enough.


Edited by Balc0ra, 02 October 2019 - 02:01 PM.


Cobra6 #3 Posted 02 October 2019 - 02:10 PM

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You drove stupidly into a crossfire and got punished for it.

 

The problem is not the TD here (granted it's annoying) but the your positioning. You drive into a location that enemies can have a clear shot on you and from which you can't retreat.

Work on that problem first.

 

A better approach is where your T55 is, granted a Jagdtiger can engage you there but at least you can see him and shoot back.

 

Additionally additionally, why are you on flat ground with a T34 instead of on the other flank where you can use your gun depression and turret armor? The flank you are on is a waste anyway, you just need a few tanks to hold the enemy there in place while everyone else pushes the other flank to win the match.

 

I *really* only see major issues with your positioning on the map in relation to your tank strengths and general errors in positioning on an engagement basis.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 02 October 2019 - 02:15 PM.


killer999death #4 Posted 02 October 2019 - 02:30 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 02 October 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

That would be true if he was inside the bush with the gun poking out. But when he backs off 15m behind it. He gets 50% extra camo factor from the bush. Or 80% as that's the cap if it's a double bush. Meaning your effective spotting distance vs that target is reduced massively. 

 

And say you have 400m on that T34. Vs an 80% bush camo target, that spotting distance is down to 120m at least. Regardless of the target, even an IS-6 could hide there if he backed off far enough.

This is why I love world of warships spotting mechanics compared to tanks. Anyone can be an invisible fucknut in this game.

View PostCobra6, on 02 October 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

You drove stupidly into a crossfire and got punished for it.

 

The problem is not the TD here (granted it's annoying) but the your positioning. You drive into a location that enemies can have a clear shot on you and from which you can't retreat.

Work on that problem first.

 

A better approach is where your T55 is, granted a Jagdtiger can engage you there but at least you can see him and shoot back.

 

Additionally additionally, why are you on flat ground with a T34 instead of on the other flank where you can use your gun depression and turret armor? The flank you are on is a waste anyway, you just need a few tanks to hold the enemy there in place while everyone else pushes the other flank to win the match.

 

I *really* only see major issues with your positioning on the map in relation to your tank strengths and general errors in positioning on an engagement basis.

 

Cobra 6


1)Because it seemed like a fast push
2)Because I expected to spot the shooting TD half way down the road but instead I got killed even when I drove closer to the small bush.

Eventually I spotted him when I was a one shot and he was inside the bloody bushes not 15 meters behind but seriously [edited]these mechanics.



Falathi #5 Posted 02 October 2019 - 02:55 PM

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Hey there, 

actually as it was explained above: the TD in question must have been behind the bush. This way the camouflage bonus has not been lost after firing. Otherwise, you would have spotted him easily. 

 

This also suggest that the player in the TD knew pretty well what he`s been doing :) 



Dorander #6 Posted 02 October 2019 - 02:58 PM

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View Postkiller999death, on 02 October 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

 

Eventually I spotted him when I was a one shot and he was inside the bloody bushes not 15 meters behind but seriously [edited]these mechanics.

 

People do move you know. An experienced player will spot you from the bush they're in so your silhouette is visible for about 8 seconds regardless of soft cover. They drive back until the bushes are fully opaque. Fire at your silhouette. Rinse and repeat as needed.


Edited by Dorander, 02 October 2019 - 02:58 PM.


Stevies_Team #7 Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:01 PM

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Spotting mechanics in WoT can be quite... spotty

 

It's the same for everyone



Kartoshkaya #8 Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:09 PM

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Learn to play

Thejagdpanther #9 Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:11 PM

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I hate when a heavy do such a dumb move.
It's not even a problem of TD or similar crap... the amx ac48 have nearly the same camo of the amx30.
Behind that bush, with the correct moves, there could have been an entire army.

You are also lucky that the WG has implemented that indicator for "special people", which allows you to shoot even targets that are using (as in this case) a game mechanic correctly and to their advantage
#dumb_down_the_game

Edited by Thejagdpanther, 02 October 2019 - 03:49 PM.


jack_timber #10 Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:38 PM

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But you knew where you were taking fire from so line up the shot taken with the 12 o'clock mark on your aiming thingamabob and fire... Or move:)

I just love it being double bushed in a TD and being 'cloaked', tracks off intended victim first then let the fun, for me, commence.



Dorander #11 Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:41 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 02 October 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

You are also lucky that the WG has implemented that indicator for "special people", which allows you to shoot even targets that are using (as in this case) a game mechanic correctly and to their advantage
#dumb_dow_the_game

 

Wargaming introduced that indicator, regardless of whether you consider it to be a good idea or not (and quite frankly given how our UI functions as an abstract representation of the combined faculty of our tank crew I'd say it is) so that people who used a mod for this indicator did not have an unfair advantage over the rest of the population.

 

You'd think that it's not entirely unreasonable that you're able to determine the direction of the projectile that caused a hole in your plating.



shikaka9 #12 Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:45 PM

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View PostKartoshkaya, on 02 October 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

Learn to play

but he's learning right here, right now :confused:


Edited by shikaka9, 02 October 2019 - 03:45 PM.


Thejagdpanther #13 Posted 02 October 2019 - 03:48 PM

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View PostDorander, on 02 October 2019 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

Wargaming introduced that indicator, regardless of whether you consider it to be a good idea or not (and quite frankly given how our UI functions as an abstract representation of the combined faculty of our tank crew I'd say it is) so that people who used a mod for this indicator did not have an unfair advantage over the rest of the population.

 

You'd think that it's not entirely unreasonable that you're able to determine the direction of the projectile that caused a hole in your plating.

 

Wargaming should have put that mod in the ban list and ban players that use it like their recent "fair play policy" lol.
It is not in any way unreasonable to determine from which point the bullet arrives.

It is extremely idiotic to be able to understand its exact origin and even to know which tank is shooting at you without ever having spotted it.



Homer_J #14 Posted 02 October 2019 - 04:04 PM

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View Postkiller999death, on 02 October 2019 - 01:53 PM, said:

When the bloody f**k am I going to spot a TD shitting in bushes and literally killing me from full HP when it's 150(?) meters away.

 

View PostBalc0ra, on 02 October 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

And say you have 400m on that T34. Vs an 80% bush camo target, that spotting distance is down to 120m at least.

And I would say it's more like 200m away.

 

View PostCobra6, on 02 October 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

 

Additionally additionally, why are you on flat ground with a T34

^^This.  You have the sloped ground beside you which you can drive along using it's curvature to give you some hull down effect.



Balc0ra #15 Posted 02 October 2019 - 04:06 PM

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View Postkiller999death, on 02 October 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

This is why I love world of warships spotting mechanics compared to tanks. Anyone can be an invisible fucknut in this game.
Eventually I spotted him when I was a one shot and he was inside the bloody bushes not 15 meters behind but seriously [edited]these mechanics.

 

Not much bushes in the water either. And camo there is not meant to conseal the ship, but rather confuse about range and direction, hense the camo bonuses to increase dispersion on those firing at you. That and tracers are not hidden on unspotted ships. So you can blind fire on smoke. There you have island some can fire over as an issue instead.

 

And if you spotted him inside the bushes, he must have moved closer to it. No way you would not spot him there firing inside the bush unless he was 15m behind it. 

 

View PostHomer_J, on 02 October 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

 ^^This.  You have the sloped ground beside you which you can drive along using it's curvature to give you some hull down effect.

 

And yeah I was not gonna point that out, but I would never push that corner that hard that early going first in a T34 with no intel vs higher tiers.

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 02 October 2019 - 04:11 PM.


Cobra6 #16 Posted 02 October 2019 - 04:13 PM

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View Postkiller999death, on 02 October 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

 

1)Because it seemed like a fast push
2)Because I expected to spot the shooting TD half way down the road but instead I got killed even when I drove closer to the small bush.

Eventually I spotted him when I was a one shot and he was inside the bloody bushes not 15 meters behind but seriously [edited]these mechanics.

 

Problem is that you need to get closer, but for that you have to cross open ground and a huge gap where there are usually tanks shooting (on your left).

It's simply not a good flank to go to in anything that isn't a light tank or super heavy.

 

Cobra 6



Dorander #17 Posted 02 October 2019 - 09:19 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 02 October 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

 

Wargaming should have put that mod in the ban list and ban players that use it like their recent "fair play policy" lol.
It is not in any way unreasonable to determine from which point the bullet arrives.

It is extremely idiotic to be able to understand its exact origin and even to know which tank is shooting at you without ever having spotted it.

 

The incorporation of mods like these started after the first version of the fair play policy was introduced. The FPP's goal was to correct for the advantageous differences of some mods versus pure vanilla players, giving everybody the same optional advantages without having to rely on third party additions. Of course the original idea of incorporating all mods that were deemed to give an advantage considered legal went on the backburner at some point and nobody knows if they'll ever incorporate more and truly eliminate the discussion of how even the playing field is.


Wargaming has never had the position that only the original vanilla client functionality that has existed since launch was the only fair way to play, in fact, they've made several adapations over the years and this is one of them. What belongs on the allowed modlist and which ones on the banlist is, besides a lengthy and quite tedious discussion that's been had a few times before, quite a subjective judgement. I get what you say when you state the details of who is firing at you seems like some sort of extrasensory perception, but it's not like this game is overburdened with realism to begin with. So there's really no "should" involved.



WindSplitter1 #18 Posted 03 October 2019 - 08:35 PM

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View Postkiller999death, on 02 October 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

I hate TD's shooting me literally a spit distance away and not being able to spot them. 




When the bloody f**k am I going to spot a TD shitting in bushes and literally killing me from full HP when it's 150(?) meters away.

 

Although I concede that I would not drive into the open like this, unless I really had to, this, in general is exactly the reason why I don't play WoT anymore.

 

That damage was inflicted by a 390HP/400HP - 105mm/120mm gun (though autoloader). If it was an ISU/Borsig+, game over. No player should ever be rewarded like that by BARELY playing the game or likewise punished.

 

It's more cancerous than a clicker. At least those have twice the reload and more often than not deal less than half their average damage.



LordMuffin #19 Posted 03 October 2019 - 08:56 PM

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View Postkiller999death, on 02 October 2019 - 01:53 PM, said:

I hate TD's shooting me literally a spit distance away and not being able to spot them. 




When the bloody f**k am I going to spot a TD shitting in bushes and literally killing me from full HP when it's 150(?) meters away.

If it is a TD player that knows how to play TD,  you need to get very close to spot him even when he fires.

 

If the TD player is you average WOT player, you will spot them from quite afar.



ThorgrimBrenadim #20 Posted 03 October 2019 - 09:11 PM

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It was not a TD it is either a Klingon bird of prey or the bush firing at you. If it's the bush sweet FA you can do blame the greens and global warming for being unable to burn that bush to the ground, if the former I suggest you get a Vorlon planet killer ( hint they stupidly call em "shitbarns" here) and get them to blast whatever is in near or half a mile past the bush. Problem solved. :)

 

If that is too much go watch youtube streamers like Quickybaby, skill4tu, lemmingrush and others and learn spotting mechanics, camo mechanics and most importantly where Td;s hide drinking their cheap bottles of wine and cider waiting to ambush you for all your worth. :)


Edited by ThorgrimBrenadim, 03 October 2019 - 09:12 PM.





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