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How i calculate dispersion


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Zymeth #1 Posted 03 October 2019 - 01:56 PM

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Hey,

 

i heard vstab is not must have on lt-100 cuz he have nice gun handling but i want to calculate this.

info from tanks.gg

 

  LT-100 Object 140
Dispersion @100m 0,44 0,34
Moving 0,06 0,08
Tank traverse 0,06 0,08
Turret traverse 0,05 0,10
Moving max 4,32 4,40
Tank traverse max 3,48 4,48
Turret traverse max 2,75 4,10

 

Question is i just stack them ? like 4,32 + 3,48 + 2,75 + 0,44 = 10,99 ?? and how long will be aim time cuz i dont think it will take 1,92 ...

 

I put object 140 cuz i am thinking if this tank need vstab too.

 

 



fwhaatpiraat #2 Posted 03 October 2019 - 02:40 PM

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No, it doesn't work like that.

Also, Vstab is basically the #1 choice on any tank.

It works more or less like this: if you let the gun fully aim, you 'reach' your maximum accuracy (basically highest chance to hit). You see that the accuracy value of the 140 is much better (lower) than from the light. The 'moving', 'tank traverse' and 'turret traverse' numbers are usually called 'bloom values' and for this also counts: lower is better. If you drive, turn or rotate the turret these values make the aiming circle big. They work basically as multipliers of the accuracy value, but 'speed' is also a multiplier. So at slow speeds the gun will bloom less.

 

There is another statistic in the game that shrinks the aim circle: the aiming time. The 'aim time' statistic in game is not really the aim time, but rather a number that indicates the aim speed. Lower number means better aim speed/time.

 

Also I suggest to read this: http://forum.worldof...k-maths-inside/ much better explained than I can do.

 

Recently I saw a nice website that basically showed the aim circle size vs speed (per tank) in a nice graph, you could toggle stuff like Vstab, GLD, etc. If someone knows the website, please link it, I forgot.



Stevies_Team #3 Posted 03 October 2019 - 02:45 PM

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You don't have the wtf value anywhere

This is the distance between the aimpoint on the target tank and any clear air around the tank at the instant you press fire

 

You can sometimes tell a tank is hiding unspotted in a bush when you blind shoot at it with a good accuracy gun



Leepants #4 Posted 03 October 2019 - 04:27 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 October 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

 

Also, Vstab is basically the #1 choice on any tank.

 

 

Hi Piraat.

 

What would you not use, then, buddy, and why? Optics or vents or rammer? 

 

Thanks.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 03 October 2019 - 04:55 PM

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There are 3 dispersion components (using the 140 as an example):

 

  • Tank moving dispersion (0.08).
  • Hull turning dispersion (0.08).
  • Turret moving dispersion (0.1).

 

Keep in mind that those are multipliers not values of dispersion. For example, if the 140 is moving at maximum speed (55 km/h) then the tank moving dispersion component = 55 * 0.08 = 4.4. This is a part of the total dispersion.

 

To combine all 3 components, the equation is:

 

 

So for a moving 140 the dispersion components will be:

 

  • Moving dispersion = 55 * 0.08 = 4.4 (assuming the tank is moving at full speed 55 km/h)
  • Tank traverse = 56.31 * 0.08 = 4.5 (assuming the hull is traversing at full speed 56.31°/sec)
  • Turret traverse = 41.71 * 0.1 = 4.17 (assuming the turret is moving at full speed 41.71°/sec)

 

With 0.34 accuracy and using the equation above, the total dispersion = 2.59

 

That's how big your aiming circle will get at the worst possible (and unrealistic) conditions. The number itself doesn't mean much but it's a very good tool when comparing tanks.

 

For example, the total dispersion of the 430U is 3.7 and the 121 is 3.8. The 121 while being considerably more accurate (0.34 vs. 0.38) its gun handling is a let down.

 

Now to the annoying part, how much will i wait for the aiming circle to shrink to its smallest size?

 

 

The full aim time is again useless in itself but a very good tool when comparing two tanks. For example the T78, the hellcat and the Jackson have 6.09, 5.87 and 4.37 seconds full aim time respectively. The dispersion multipliers in this case doesn't directly show how fast your gun will aim because of the 2nd layer of calculations. Clearly the Jackson wins because it's slow. and having respectable dispersion multipliers.

 

To conclude, accuracy has a bigger effect than dispersion values on the gun handling unless we are talking about extreme cases. Every tank should benefit from using vertical stabs but is this always noticeable? Not really!

 

Should you use V-stabs on the T-100? Probably no, it will take an equipment slot and it won't make much of a difference since the accuracy is really bad at 0.44.

 

Should you drop the V-stabs on the 140? Same answer, no, you will benefit from the improved dispersion (better gun handling) and the improved accuracy, from using vents for example, will not make much of a difference because the base accuracy is already very good at 0.34.

 

If you reached this part, understood all the above and most importantly agree with it, have a chocolate cookie on me. Hell, have 4. :)

 

Late edit for those shy lurkers...

 


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 03 October 2019 - 07:29 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #6 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:17 PM

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View PostLeepants, on 03 October 2019 - 04:27 PM, said:

 

 

Hi Piraat.

 

What would you not use, then, buddy, and why? Optics or vents or rammer? 

 

Thanks.

I use Vstab + rammer + optics on most of my tanks. On a light tank you definitely don't want to drop optics. On the T49 (derp) I dropped the gun rammer.


Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 03 October 2019 - 05:18 PM.


Dorander #7 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:19 PM

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View PostLeepants, on 03 October 2019 - 03:27 PM, said:

 

 

Hi Piraat.

 

What would you not use, then, buddy, and why? Optics or vents or rammer? 

 

Thanks.

 

I'd never pass on optics on any light or med and quite honestly not even on some heavies, though I'm pretty OK with Vents on heavies. If I truly want to max out active view range I'll slot vents but mostly I end up slotting a rammer personally. So as a rule of thumb:

 

Light or medium tank: Optics, vstab, rammer (if it's not an autoloader, if it is, vents)

Heavy: Vstab, rammer, vents (or optics if it has good base viewrange).



Leepants #8 Posted 03 October 2019 - 08:17 PM

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Thanks chaps :)

Steiner011 #9 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:29 PM

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This is how I calculate dispersion :trollface:



Zymeth #10 Posted 04 October 2019 - 04:08 PM

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I did calculation and lt-100 need more vstab then object 140 lulz

 

  no eq etc full+vstab  
lt-100 2,76 2,02 0,74
object 140 2,57 1,89 0,68

 

I guess if most ppl dont use vstab on lt-100 then on object there is no point too cuz it have better gun handling...



XxKuzkina_MatxX #11 Posted 04 October 2019 - 04:43 PM

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View PostZymeth, on 04 October 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

I did calculation and lt-100 need more vstab then object 140 lulz

 

  no eq etc full+vstab  
lt-100 2,76 2,02 0,74
object 140 2,57 1,89 0,68

 

I guess if most ppl dont use vstab on lt-100 then on object there is no point too cuz it have better gun handling...

 

I ran the numbers for the T-100 and the 140...

 

 

The T-100 benefits from the V-stabs by: 11.1% in full aim time and 20.16% in total dispersion.

 

The 140 benefits from the V-stabs by: 14.7% in full aim time and 29.7% in total dispersion.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 04 October 2019 - 04:50 PM.


Zymeth #12 Posted 04 October 2019 - 05:36 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 04 October 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

I ran the numbers for the T-100 and the 140...

 

 

The T-100 benefits from the V-stabs by: 11.1% in full aim time and 20.16% in total dispersion.

 

The 140 benefits from the V-stabs by: 14.7% in full aim time and 29.7% in total dispersion.

 

ok my bad i know where i made mistake... last question which tank recive the least bonus ? it is a lt-100 ?



XxKuzkina_MatxX #13 Posted 04 October 2019 - 05:39 PM

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View PostZymeth, on 04 October 2019 - 08:36 PM, said:

ok my bad i know where i made mistake... last question which tank recive the least bonus ? it is a lt-100 ?

 

The smallest bonus is received by the T-100. And please if you have any other questions, just ask.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 04 October 2019 - 05:40 PM.


Balderik #14 Posted 18 November 2019 - 11:09 PM

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The formula from Kuzkina Mat is also how I am used to calculate total dispersion. (I used to be a very active player 5-6 years ago) Thank you mr. Mat for refreshing my memory :-)

The aimtime formula is not the way I would write it though, there is an easier way. Although they give the same result:

Full aim time = Aim time * ln (Accuracy/Total Dispersion)

The 0.4 in your formula is an approximation, the exact value is 1/e. Leading to the simpler formula using natural logaritm.

And if the only purpose is to find the aimtime, there is no need to involve the accuracy value at all. And the formula becomes:

Full aim time = Aim time * ln ( SQRT( 1 + (Moving)^2 + (Tank traverse)^2 + (Turret traverse)^2))


Edited by Balderik, 18 November 2019 - 11:13 PM.


Homer_J #15 Posted 18 November 2019 - 11:25 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 03 October 2019 - 04:55 PM, said:

There are 3 dispersion components (using the 140 as an example):

 

  • Tank moving dispersion (0.08).
  • Hull turning dispersion (0.08).
  • Turret moving dispersion (0.1).

 

Keep in mind that those are multipliers not values of dispersion. For example, if the 140 is moving at maximum speed (55 km/h) then the tank moving dispersion component = 55 * 0.08 = 4.4. This is a part of the total dispersion.

[snip]

 

 

Wow, in all my years I never saw an explanation of how those dispersion figures work which actually made sense until now. :great:



NUKLEAR_SLUG #16 Posted 19 November 2019 - 06:38 AM

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So did we decide either way if it's worthwhile putting stabs on a T100? :)

Spurtung #17 Posted 19 November 2019 - 07:18 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 04 October 2019 - 04:39 PM, said:

if you have any other questions, just ask.

 

Is there any place where to find all tanks in a nice table?



chainreact0r #18 Posted 19 November 2019 - 12:01 PM

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That dispersion value is just dust in the eyes.

I devised a simple and accurate formula for calculating how accurate a tank really is:

 

 
if(tank.getNation() == "RASHA")
{ 
  accuracy="good";
  accuracyOnTheMove="very good";
  effectiveDistance="Every distance including out of render top kek";
 }else
{
 throw new JustPlayRashaBlyatException(); 
}

 

Hope it helps.


Edited by chainreact0r, 19 November 2019 - 12:01 PM.


TankkiPoju #19 Posted 19 November 2019 - 01:50 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 October 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

Also, Vstab is basically the #1 choice on any tank.

 

Not really on T100 LT. Not only does the tank have already super good soft stats, it also has very good base aiming time. I tried with vert stabs, it literally made zero difference. I use rammer, vents and optics in T100 LT and premium food to maximise view range and camo values. Also the vents or optics directive for full try hard mode.

 

In comparison, T92 light tank has almost as good soft stats and aiming time, but even then vert stabs make a small but noticeable difference.

 



facmanpob #20 Posted 19 November 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 04 October 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

I ran the numbers for the T-100 and the 140...

 

 

The T-100 benefits from the V-stabs by: 11.1% in full aim time and 20.16% in total dispersion.

 

The 140 benefits from the V-stabs by: 14.7% in full aim time and 29.7% in total dispersion.

 

So, just to clarify for my old and addled brain: The T-100 doesn't benefit as much from the VStab when compared with the Obj 140, due primarily to the fact that its dispersion/bloom factors are significantly better (i.e. lower) than the 140's?

 

If so, I may need to rethink some of my equipment choices!






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