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Creating a special category in the Matchmaker for people with <500wn8


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Rubashow #1 Posted 03 October 2019 - 07:11 PM

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It appears to me that the balance between teams would be greatly improved if people below 500 wn8 would but together in their own games and thus excluded from regular play. 

I my opinion the problem with bots and with people who are unable or unwillig to improve would be solved. In a league for people <500 wn8 they would be able to figure out the basics in a much more forgiving environment. At the same time it is much less likely that the game balance is thrown off by people who are unaware or unable to adjust to the games meta. 

I have no idea whether this was already discussed. I think the exclusion of people who are unable to contribute to higher skill level game in this way is greatly beneficial to all. I don't want this to be a discussion about whether wn8 is a good marker for player aptitude. It might be avergage EXP normalized from tier to tier. The point I wish this thread to have is whether the general principle of creating a league to stratify people similar to how StarCraft 2 does it is a good idea for WG to follow. 

Finsken #2 Posted 03 October 2019 - 07:13 PM

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Or just make a "Ranked" and "Unranked"-bracket with some sort of requirement to be able to enter a ranked match.

Balc0ra #3 Posted 03 October 2019 - 07:14 PM

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View PostRubashow, on 03 October 2019 - 07:11 PM, said:



I have no idea whether this was already discussed.

 

About 999.999 times in different forms. So you're not the first to think they are above some. But as WG have said. They don't want to separate the player base in randoms. So you're stuck with them.

 

It's why you got Ranked. Then again, we all know how well that worked. Only thing that showed is that lemming fails, camping fails and yolo's is not limited to bad players.  You just see less of them.


Edited by Balc0ra, 03 October 2019 - 07:15 PM.


MeetriX #4 Posted 03 October 2019 - 07:31 PM

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I have a better idea.

MM for players who wear same color shirt. 



Immensive #5 Posted 03 October 2019 - 07:39 PM

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And what should the matchmaker do, when the >500 wn8 people took their place?

 

Also wn8 is just a player rating made by other players to determinate the effectiveness of their tank in regards to damage and kills. Its not approved and used by wg in any way. So it makes no sense for the mm.


Edited by Immensive, 03 October 2019 - 07:40 PM.


Steiner011 #6 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:25 PM

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DONT , i say again DONT touch the plankton of WoT.  Essential food for everyone , including themselves , they are crucial part of the natural wildlife. Without them , unicums and bluenicums would become extinct.

iuytr #7 Posted 03 October 2019 - 11:28 PM

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View PostImmensive, on 03 October 2019 - 07:39 PM, said:

Also wn8 is just a player rating made by other players to determinate the effectiveness of their tank in regards to damage and kills. Its not approved and used by wg in any way. So it makes no sense for the mm.

 

Then use the WOT ratings. They have the added benefit that they include assisted damage.



Negativvv #8 Posted 04 October 2019 - 12:06 AM

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Sometimes a tomato can still do some good.

 

They still need to be killed and you can't discount their gun.

 

Whilst a Tomato is being shot at, they could end up revealing their attackers. This might end up influencing the outcome of the game.



Homer_J #9 Posted 04 October 2019 - 02:21 AM

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View PostRubashow, on 03 October 2019 - 07:11 PM, said:

It appears to me that the balance between teams would be greatly improved if people below 500 wn8 would but together in their own games and thus excluded from regular play. 
 

Why?  So they can progress through the tiers faster without having to try, and everyone else's stats can drop?

 

Methinks you didn't think it through.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #10 Posted 04 October 2019 - 04:03 AM

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View PostRubashow, on 03 October 2019 - 07:11 PM, said:

It appears to me that the balance between teams would be greatly improved if people below 500 wn8 would but together in their own games and thus excluded from regular play. 

 

Well I think the game would be greatly improved by excluding you from regular play.



fwhaatpiraat #11 Posted 04 October 2019 - 06:42 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 04 October 2019 - 04:03 AM, said:

 

Well I think the game would be greatly improved by excluding you from regular play.

You understand that if you 'delete' the 500wn8 players from regular mm, the players that currently have 500-1000wn8 will become the sub 500wn8 players? A bit better <500wn8 players, but still <500wn8 players.



4nt #12 Posted 04 October 2019 - 07:18 AM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 04 October 2019 - 06:42 AM, said:

You understand that if you 'delete' the 500wn8 players from regular mm, the players that currently have 500-1000wn8 will become the sub 500wn8 players? A bit better <500wn8 players, but still <500wn8 players.

This. Same with WGR and WR and any given metric. Eventually everyone is in the sub-par bracket, even superpurples of today. And circle begins anew. 



Gremlin182 #13 Posted 04 October 2019 - 07:31 AM

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It was a stupid "sorry" idea when it was first proposed and it still is several years on.

Random battles what part of that is difficult to follow.

 

OK suppose they do this, immediately you increase the difficulty level for these >500wn8 players, on average their teams may be better but so are the opposition.

Before you fully understand whats happening your wn8 drops maybe far enough so you no longer qualify for the special elite group.

 

Play the game modes that cater for such players and leave randoms alone.

 



SiliconSidewinder #14 Posted 04 October 2019 - 07:43 AM

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1: people that don't learn when sorounded by better players certainly don't get better when segregated from those. It's a simple matter of how learning through imitation works.

 

2:  thorugh the segregation you would destroy the very standard by which you intend to measure players skill.

just to write it out: compare a wn8 499 bot to a wn8 0 bot you will suddenly realize the 499 bot is a incredibly skilled unikum compared to a afk leecher.

So the 499 would suddenly have incredibly succesfull battles till he would promote to 501... and then he would be the worst bob again.

(also sounds incredibly frustrating)

 

3: through segregation you would create a wall in player behaviour that would be incredibly difficult to cross: one day you are playing agains yolo/ afkbots and the next day you are in a meta you have never seen before, playing against enemies that are all "better" than you.

 

4: the assumption that overall stats should and do say anyting about some other player is quiet funny in the first place. That's a long discussion and most people hate it, but let's assume for a moment a pretty good player doesn't care about his stats, or likes to be underestimated and used a bot program do grind himself stuff. He may have Wn8 400 but he might actually play 1200+ heck he could be a freaking unikum.

 

5: serverpopulation and waiting times: the playerbase is already divided by tiers add skill walls and it will be increasingly difficult to get into battles.

looking at WoTlife: 12% of the playerbase played recently black, 18% red. Those are hughe chunks of the playerbase but still to few have a decent mm on their own.

 

6: what of those players that genuinly want to play against experienced players to become stronger and better but are only allowed to play the kindergardemode?

I mean I was there once and I was excited about the challange.

 

 

the long story short:

it's just not a good idea and I am glad WG never did anything like this.



malachi6 #15 Posted 04 October 2019 - 08:33 AM

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One of those self-entitled "suggestions" that totally ignores the viel of ignorance.

tajj7 #16 Posted 04 October 2019 - 10:07 AM

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Ignoring all the other problems this creates that people have mentioned above, you still cannot fundamentally do SBMM system or league based system based on metrics that were produced from a non-SBMM or non-league based system.  

 

It would work for like one day and then completely fail. 

 

Even if you got past all the issues with SBMM or league system, like its unfair, it wouldn't solve the problem etc. I have still not seen anyone come up with a metric/ranking system that would actually work properly for this game. 


Edited by tajj7, 04 October 2019 - 10:08 AM.


KarmaMint #17 Posted 04 October 2019 - 10:13 AM

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Just eat your tomatoes like a good boy. They are healthy. 

TankkiPoju #18 Posted 04 October 2019 - 11:27 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 04 October 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

Even if you got past all the issues with SBMM or league system, like its unfair, it wouldn't solve the problem etc. 

 

It would solve or at leats help the most glaring issues with regards to player skill and MM.

 

Most landslides happen because one team has 45% players as top tier. Even more so if one team has 45% players platooning with each other.



tajj7 #19 Posted 04 October 2019 - 11:44 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 04 October 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

 

It would solve or at leats help the most glaring issues with regards to player skill and MM.

 

Most landslides happen because one team has 45% players as top tier. Even more so if one team has 45% players platooning with each other.

 

I don't think it would, I think it would make it worse, and I also think the most glaring unbalances in the game revolve around maps and tank balance. 

 

Doesn't really matter how good you are, if you are in like a Leo 1 and you are matched against a 430U you have to work massively harder than that guy does to achieve the same, and that guy is able to drag his tier 8s along behind him in support but you can't lead the line. Add in that your tier 9 TD is an Strv camping at the back and the other team have a T95 pressing RRR and just steamrolling your other flank, skill becomes largely irrelevant IMO. 



Bordhaw #20 Posted 04 October 2019 - 12:25 PM

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View PostRubashow, on 03 October 2019 - 06:11 PM, said:

It appears to me that the balance between teams would be greatly improved if people below 500 wn8 would but together in their own games and thus excluded from regular play. 

 

That's 84% of the playerbase gone then. 

 






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