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Why are Tier X players so useless?


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Bulldog_Drummond #1 Posted 03 October 2019 - 09:55 PM

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Based on my admittedly very limited (one day) experience of playing at tier X I have been astonished by the incompetence of tier X players in my games.  And I say that as an incompetent player myself.

This really puts into perspective the not infrequently seen put-downs here that so and so doesn't know/is useless/has opinions not worth considering etc because he doesn't play tier X.

Frankly you see more competent play at tier V.



Stevies_Team #2 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:07 PM

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Fear of losing credits or affecting win rate makes "teams" pretty poor at 9 and 10

Lower tiers are better



Wintermute_1 #3 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:07 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 03 October 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

Frankly you see more competent play at tier V.

 

Nah you don't.

 

But admittedly theres no upper cut off for terrible play.



kd5 #4 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:11 PM

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Tier X has a lot more gold ammo in XD

You don't play tier x to make credits. It is endgame after all....

 

Use your lower tier tanks to bankroll lol


Edited by kd5, 03 October 2019 - 10:11 PM.


spamhamstar #5 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:11 PM

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I'd expect that mistakes just show up a lot more at tier X than they do at tier 5.  Make a mistake down at tier 5 & chances are nobody will spot you doing it, let alone be in a position to actually do anything about it.  At tier X pretty much everyone has max view range, whether or not they're going to be better positioned to take advantage of your mistake is clearly open to debate.

 

Anyway, don't sell yourself short.  Unless you jumped straight from tier 7 to 10, you've had far more than one days experience of tier x players.



Schepel #6 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:16 PM

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There is a lot of useless play at tier X. Don't ask me why. Been bashing my head against a brick wall the past few weeks in tier ten. Lost way too many games that seem practically all but won only there is always going to be a few remaining players who are happy to prove you wrong.

_1111_ #7 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:24 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 03 October 2019 - 10:16 PM, said:

There is a lot of useless play at tier X. Don't ask me why.

 

I am not sure there are any sane players playing tier 10 other than wallet warriors. After all, it's a rip-off and even when you win, you lose tons of silver. Excessive greed hurt higher tiers. Roll out and give them nothing!



Bulldog_Drummond #8 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:25 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 03 October 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:

There is a lot of useless play at tier X. Don't ask me why. Been bashing my head against a brick wall the past few weeks in tier ten. Lost way too many games that seem practically all but won only there is always going to be a few remaining players who are happy to prove you wrong.

 

What is baffling is that most tier X players are green so you would think they would know what they are doing.

But the level of incompetence is an eye-opener.



LordMuffin #9 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:36 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 03 October 2019 - 10:25 PM, said:

 

What is baffling is that most tier X players are green so you would think they would know what they are doing.

But the level of incompetence is an eye-opener.

The higher up the tiers you go, the less damage (compared to tanks hp) is needed for green wn8.



spamhamstar #10 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:40 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 03 October 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

What is baffling is that most tier X players are green so you would think they would know what they are doing.

But the level of incompetence is an eye-opener.

 

Don't let the pretty colours fool you. 

 

If we take your stats, seeing as you've put yourself forward as an example here.  In your 16 games shown in the Maus you've managed an avg dmg of 1583.  That's just over 1/2 the HP of the tank you're driving, yet that gives you a WN8 of 1841, which is very dark green.  It's also your 2nd highest WN8 in any tank at all.

 

So you have nice green stats, but you're still only contributing 1/2 the HP you're taking from your teams total, but have a 50% win rate.  Yet you still think it's everyone else that's incompetent.

 

So lets compare that to your most played tank at tier V the KV220-2.  You manage 607 avg damage which is  87% of your health pool of 690.  This gives you a light green WN8 of 1358 to go with your 60% win rate. 

 

Now if we consider that you are playing  both tier V & X you'll probably find this tells you something important & it's not that there are more incompetent players at tier X.


Edited by spamhamstar, 03 October 2019 - 10:40 PM.


Bulldog_Drummond #11 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:41 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 03 October 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

The higher up the tiers you go, the less damage (compared to tanks hp) is needed for green wn8.

 

Aha, mystery solved.

What I have seen today of tier X players beggars belief in terms of utter incompetence

21:46 Added after 4 minute

View Postspamhamstar, on 03 October 2019 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

Don't let the pretty colours fool you. 

 

If we take your stats, seeing as you've put yourself forward as an example here.  In your 16 games shown in the Maus you've managed an avg dmg of 1583.  That's just over 1/2 the HP of the tank you're driving, yet that gives you a WN8 of 1841, which is very dark green.  It's also your 2nd highest WN8 in any tank at all.

 

So you have nice green stats, but you're still only contributing 1/2 the HP you're taking from your teams total, but have a 50% win rate.  Yet you still think it's everyone else that's incompetent.

 

So lets compare that to your most played tank at tier V the KV220-2.  You manage 607 avg damage which is  87% of your health pool of 690.  This gives you a light green WN8 of 1358 to go with your 60% win rate. 

 

Now if we consider that you are playing  both tier V & X you'll probably find this tells you something important & it's not that there are more incompetent players at tier X.

 

Point taken on the WN8 calculations, which I hadn't previously appreciated

As to whether I'm incompetent, I've never made any claims otherwise.  I readily agree, I am incompetent.

I was just surprised to see so many higher rated players equally or more incompetent

 



LIL_Veky #12 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:48 PM

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The problem isnt tier x, the problem is that awful players can get to tier x fast

PowJay #13 Posted 03 October 2019 - 10:50 PM

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I think that some players think that tier X is the end game. After passing comment on poor performance I've been mocked by others for not owning sufficient tier X vehicles relative to the number of battles I've played. These individuals frequently have overall circa 46% win rates and a garage full of tier X vehicles, some with sub-40% WR.

 

What they want is to get the most powerful armour in the game. They feel that tier X is the place to be as they are always top tier. They forget that with great power comes great responsibility. 

 

They are NEVER bottom tier or mid-tier. They don't realise that as top tier the team is relying on them to do the most work and to make up for the deficiencies and failings of any of the lower tier vehicles and/or players. 

 

Although it's accepted that doing ones own HP in damage is a good start, that is not that easy in tier X. It should be but as I've opined elsewhere, the issue really is having the opportunity to do that damage before the end of battle due to reload times and missed opportunities that result, together with RNG and plain bad luck.

 

Poor players easily get as low as 35% WR at tier X. Average players will get lower than their overall, say 45%. I'm officially classed as "good" overall, but I can't play tier X. I would suggest that while I've got a positive WR in my IS-7, and have enjoyed playing it, I wouldn't say that I deserve the positive WR. Of the other three I've owned, one was sold with a negative WR and the other 50%. The Grille 15 is probably next to go except that I'm not sure what to do with the excellent female crew.

 

I've seen very good players with very respectable lower (than X) tier performance and pretty good damage at tier X but negative WR. I feel of the top of my head, that around 1.5 HP average damage may be required to maintain even a small positive WR 

 


Edited by PowJay, 03 October 2019 - 10:54 PM.


Bulldog_Drummond #14 Posted 03 October 2019 - 11:00 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 03 October 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

I'm not sure what to do with the excellent female crew.

 

 

 

A number of awfully bad jokes did occur to me, but my lips are sealed



spamhamstar #15 Posted 03 October 2019 - 11:11 PM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 03 October 2019 - 09:41 PM, said:

 

Point taken on the WN8 calculations, which I hadn't previously appreciated

As to whether I'm incompetent, I've never made any claims otherwise.  I readily agree, I am incompetent.

I was just surprised to see so many higher rated players equally or more incompetent

 

 

I'd already gone back & scored out the comment about your competence in an edit, but didn't remove it  altogether, as I'd already hit post & didn't want to appear sneaky or underhand.  I admit that I was wrong to suggest that you were blaming anyone for anything.  My bad, but I really am very contrite.

 

I think we're probably all incompetent to some degree or another & that most of us play tier V & X.  The good players you see at tier V, very likely also play tier X.  The bad players you see at tier X...

 

WN8 also doesn't prevent incompetence at any given moment.  I found for a time I was doing extremely well & achieving almost constant super unicum recent results.  As a result I thought I was really very good & made some frightfully bad descisions based on that thought.  All that really happened was that I had some high damage games, followed by some where I just yolo'd into silly odds like a noob.

 

Anyway, what we see of this world is largely in our own heads, so if you reckon everyone at tier x is a noob, while tier V is the skilliest place to hang, well, have at it.


Edited by spamhamstar, 03 October 2019 - 11:11 PM.


Bulldog_Drummond #16 Posted 03 October 2019 - 11:30 PM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 03 October 2019 - 10:11 PM, said:

 

 

Anyway, what we see of this world is largely in our own heads, so if you reckon everyone at tier x is a noob, while tier V is the skilliest place to hang, well, have at it.

 

That I think would be over-egging it, and I hope I haven't said that all tier X players are noobs, only that it seems on brief experience playing at tier X that many of them are surprisingly bad despite good WN8 ratings in most cases.

 

I did encounter one clearly very capable player, Maus vs Maus, who put 5 pens into my turret for the 1 pen I put into his.  A valuable learning experience.

 

But I also saw an extraordinary amount of base camping that always led inevitably to lost games.  When I see that at tier III I assume it's just inexperience, but at tier X you wonder what is going on in peoples minds



Negativvv #17 Posted 03 October 2019 - 11:36 PM

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Thought doing your HP in damage was the bare minimum most tanks should be doing at any tier...

 

Although I don't play T10 SuperHT.



Bulldog_Drummond #18 Posted 03 October 2019 - 11:56 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 03 October 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

Thought doing your HP in damage was the bare minimum most tanks should be doing at any tier...

 

Although I don't play T10 SuperHT.

 

You might have missed the posts in which I clearly stated that I was useless.

 

I think it was Dr Johnson who said that he did not need to be a carpenter to see that a table was badly made.



Negativvv #19 Posted 04 October 2019 - 12:08 AM

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View PostBulldog_Drummond, on 03 October 2019 - 11:56 PM, said:

 

You might have missed the posts in which I clearly stated that I was useless.

 

I think it was Dr Johnson who said that he did not need to be a carpenter to see that a table was badly made.

Meh who knows.

 

I've got a fair number of T10 but the most I go to is T9 these days.

 

WoT meta is often first to push loses, guess it's even more so at the top tier...



Etre_ #20 Posted 04 October 2019 - 08:27 AM

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Is a lot harder to mark tier X tanks than tier 8 (for me at least).
Is also harder for me to play consistently above 3k wn8 in tier X.

At tier V is enough to just show and bask in glory. Saying that players at tier V are better than the one at tier X, is funny at least.




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