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can someone tell me whats up with arty wn8


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13thPanzerdiv #1 Posted 06 October 2019 - 02:39 PM

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why is it nearly impossible to go over 2k wn8 on an arty?

example:

 

 

 

im averaging 2100 dmg on another acc

2100 dmg is top 20 EU, and its 1700 wn8 at the same time xd

someone needs to fix wn8 formula or someshit

 

that dumb arty nerf made no sense to begin with


Edited by 13thPanzerdiv, 06 October 2019 - 02:40 PM.


PayMore #2 Posted 06 October 2019 - 02:46 PM

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The clanplayer mafia is tricking with WN8 like you should belive that the earth is flat!

fwhaatpiraat #3 Posted 06 October 2019 - 02:52 PM

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You get low WN8 for playing arty. So?

Jauhesammutin #4 Posted 06 October 2019 - 03:08 PM

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View Post13thPanzerdiv, on 06 October 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

why is it nearly impossible to go over 2k wn8 on an arty?

example:

 

 

 

im averaging 2100 dmg on another acc

2100 dmg is top 20 EU, and its 1700 wn8 at the same time xd

someone needs to fix wn8 formula or someshit

 

that dumb arty nerf made no sense to begin with

I think the WN8 values are still calculated with the old arty damage (pre "stun" buff patch) values. 



Nishi_Kinuyo #5 Posted 06 October 2019 - 03:10 PM

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Probably because arta is expected to do a lot of damage?

Example, the Panzerkampfwagen IV Ausfüring H is expected to do ~510 damage per battle.

While the M41 HMC is expected to do 838 damage per battle.

That's more than 50% increase for a same-tier vehicle.



13thPanzerdiv #6 Posted 06 October 2019 - 03:22 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 06 October 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

I think the WN8 values are still calculated with the old arty damage (pre "stun" buff patch) values. 

I think this makes the most sense.

Wn8 is supposed to measure and show a persons skill right?

If a top 20 player in europe on a designated tank gets 1700 wn8, you know something isnt right.

 

View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 06 October 2019 - 02:52 PM, said:

You get low WN8 for playing arty. So?

That's the problem, it's unfair. It needs to be fixed. 

Not saying I am one, but for the very competitive players among us, overall wn8 and recents especially matter alot.

If you simply cannot play a class you really enjoy out of fear to ruin your stats and be potentially kicked out of clans or not be accepted in them, thats a serious issue.

But also for the casual player who wants to jack up their stats whilst playing something they really enjoy, they simply cant.

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 06 October 2019 - 03:10 PM, said:

Probably because arta is expected to do a lot of damage?

Example, the Panzerkampfwagen IV Ausfüring H is expected to do ~510 damage per battle.

While the M41 HMC is expected to do 838 damage per battle.

That's more than 50% increase for a same-tier vehicle.

They probably didn't update the formula after the recent arty nerf as said by  Jauhesammutin which lowered the damage output by atleast 50%, which is a huge huge change. No matter the SPG, they could all still do considerable dmg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by 13thPanzerdiv, 06 October 2019 - 03:24 PM.


SovietBias #7 Posted 06 October 2019 - 03:28 PM

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I suspect WN8 expected damage values for arty are inflated to avoid ruining the overall WN8 for accounts that played during the early years, when arty did a lot of damage.

 

There is no good way around it.



4nt #8 Posted 06 October 2019 - 03:34 PM

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Why would anyone care? Wn8 is so skewed towards damage that it's hard to take it seriously as anything else than meter of how much one can farm on given vehicle, unless used in conjunction with other performance values.

Jauhesammutin #9 Posted 06 October 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View Post13thPanzerdiv, on 06 October 2019 - 02:22 PM, said:

I think this makes the most sense.

Wn8 is supposed to measure and show a persons skill right?

If a top 20 player in europe on a designated tank gets 1700 wn8, you know something isnt right.

 

I think they haven't updated the values because they can't determine when the arty games were played. If they change the requirements for 3k WN8 to 2k dmg then everyone who got 2k dmg before the stun patch would get 3k WN8. Basically everone who played arty before the stun patch would get a boost in WN8. So either way it scews the stats for arties.



13thPanzerdiv #10 Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:15 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 06 October 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

I think they haven't updated the values because they can't determine when the arty games were played. If they change the requirements for 3k WN8 to 2k dmg then everyone who got 2k dmg before the stun patch would get 3k WN8. Basically everone who played arty before the stun patch would get a boost in WN8. So either way it scews the stats for arties.

Either way, wargaming screwed everything up as always. Nothing new.

Bunch of idiots working over there



TomatoShooter #11 Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:29 PM

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View Post13thPanzerdiv, on 06 October 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

Either way, wargaming screwed everything up as always. Nothing new.

Bunch of idiots working over there

WG did not screw up..WN8 is a made up statistic by a third party its your choice to use it or not. 



Telham #12 Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:31 PM

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WN8 isn't a WG metric. They screw up a lot of stuff, but setting the expected damage value for Arti at too high a level for the current state of Arti isn't one of them.

LordMuffin #13 Posted 06 October 2019 - 04:41 PM

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View Post13thPanzerdiv, on 06 October 2019 - 03:22 PM, said:

I think this makes the most sense.

Wn8 is supposed to measure and show a persons skill right?

If a top 20 player in europe on a designated tank gets 1700 wn8, you know something isnt right.

 

That's the problem, it's unfair. It needs to be fixed. 

Not saying I am one, but for the very competitive players among us, overall wn8 and recents especially matter alot.

If you simply cannot play a class you really enjoy out of fear to ruin your stats and be potentially kicked out of clans or not be accepted in them, thats a serious issue.

But also for the casual player who wants to jack up their stats whilst playing something they really enjoy, they simply cant.

Probably because arta is expected to do a lot of damage?

Example, the Panzerkampfwagen IV Ausfüring H is expected to do ~510 damage per battle.

While the M41 HMC is expected to do 838 damage per battle.

That's more than 50% increase for a same-tier vehicle.

They probably didn't update the formula after the recent arty nerf as said by  Jauhesammutin which lowered the damage output by atleast 50%, which is a huge huge change. No matter the SPG, they could all still do considerable dmg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arty do just as much damage post patch as pre patch on average. 

 

Explanations: WN8 creators dislike arty and put expected values on arty very high.

2: The damage spread between good and bad arty players are very small, so the expected value lies close to what best players get.

If you look at for example a regular T9 medium, a good player can get 3k+ avg dmg while a baddie gets less then 1k.

For arty, the spread might be between 1.3k up to 2.3k.



SovietBias #14 Posted 06 October 2019 - 05:08 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 06 October 2019 - 03:41 PM, said:

Arty do just as much damage post patch as pre patch on average. 

 

Explanations: WN8 creators dislike arty and put expected values on arty very high.

2: The damage spread between good and bad arty players are very small, so the expected value lies close to what best players get.

If you look at for example a regular T9 medium, a good player can get 3k+ avg dmg while a baddie gets less then 1k.

For arty, the spread might be between 1.3k up to 2.3k.

 

WN8 original team had quite the discussion about manually setting the expected values for vehicles(remember the old Patton/E50 episode, or when new tanks came out there were oddities updating the tables).As far as I know, the current team doesn't do that anymore.

 

Arty was a sensitive issue back then, developers did not want people farming WN8 in artillery and thus punished then in WN8 calculations via expected damage,yet I recall the main problem was it would also mess up the WN8 historical/overall values. Even before the stun changes, there was a massive nerf around 0.8x around the introduction of tier X arty.

 

 



sgtYester #15 Posted 06 October 2019 - 05:11 PM

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stop wn8 whoring!

 

its bad for the game.

 

wn8 noobs only camp and spam p2w ammo to get their precious damage and are utterly useless for teamplay



TomatoShooter #16 Posted 06 October 2019 - 06:57 PM

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View PostsgtYester, on 06 October 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

stop wn8 whoring!

 

its bad for the game.

 

wn8 noobs only camp and spam p2w ammo to get their precious damage and are utterly useless for teamplay

Lol still crying about gold ammo? Gold ammo is used by players of every kind from tomato to unicum and is not the reason for being purple. Jankerd.



Jauhesammutin #17 Posted 06 October 2019 - 07:57 PM

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View Post13thPanzerdiv, on 06 October 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Either way, wargaming screwed everything up as always. Nothing new.

Bunch of idiots working over there

Considering that WN8 is not WG's product I don't think they give a f*ck about it working properly.



Robbie_T #18 Posted 07 October 2019 - 05:59 AM

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Not strange you wont get much wn8 playing arty....

What kind of skills you need for it....nothing..... iq of 60 +and you okay



TankkiPoju #19 Posted 07 October 2019 - 06:13 AM

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View PostsgtYester, on 06 October 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

wn8 noobs only camp and spam p2w ammo to get their precious damage and are utterly useless for teamplay

 

You have less than 1 spotted tank per game.

 

Who is the camper here?



SuperOlsson #20 Posted 07 October 2019 - 11:50 AM

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Sorta like LordMuffin said, WN8 is based on how good you are doing in relation to others, since arty has such a low skill-threshhold to do "well" in, it is way harder to have 2-3 times the expected damage output in an arty than say Leopard 1, simply because the "bad" arty players do quite good in relation to what the class is capable of. So in one sense the low WN8 is correct, your damage output just isn't that much higher than everyone else's. Arty simply doesn't get special treatment in the WN8 formula.

Also the system is now automated, so that less manual work needs to be done every time a new vehicle is added to the game, and the expected values are literally updated every day. But if you really want this to change you should complain the the XVM team, who handles WN8 nowadays.

Edited by SuperOlsson, 07 October 2019 - 12:00 PM.





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