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Vickers Medium Mk I and II


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Catarraz #1 Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

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I found these two interesting vehicles, which, despite being named "Medium" (as they weight 12 tons and everything is relative) seem to me like a rather good candidate to tier I because of its thin armour (6 to 8mm) armament consisting of a weak 47mm gun, and also because of it's overall primitive 1920's design.
It had a top speed of 15mph or 21km/h

Vickers Medium Mark I
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Vickers Medium Mark II
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http://www.militaryh...Mark-II_640.jpg
Posted Image

Note this model with an 83mm/15pdr derpgun
http://ww2drawings.j.../1-Vehicles(bis)/UK/02-MediumTanks/Mk.II(CS)/p1.jpg

SWAT5773 #2 Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:41 PM

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Interesting topic , well done :)

NiekSchmidt #3 Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:34 PM

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more diversity in t1, lets have it!

Stokkolm #4 Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:44 PM

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The term derpgun applied to tier 1 is certainly intriguing. Does that mean 6 pounder (57mm), or more ridicolous... 15 punder (94mm)?  :Smile-hiding:

Listy #5 Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:51 PM

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I've been suggesting the Medium MKII as a T1 for ages. Everyone carried on saying I was wrong cause it was a medium.

Catarraz #6 Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:59 PM

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It's derpgun is an 83mm/ 15Pdr. I'll edit it.
Tt was called a "medium" despite its weight because, real light tanks of the era (like Vickers MkII to V) carried only machineguns, while this one caried an actual cannon. It was more of a doctrinal definition really, Lights carried machineguns, mediums carried cannon.
Besides, WG uses the post-war definitions, as the M26 Pershing was initially a heavy but then was reclassified as a medium, so I believe in post-war terms, it is infact, "light"! Problem solved!  :P

But honestly, Light, Medium... it has the performance of a light so what's the problem with it's mere name and the geometrical figure that's going to appear above it? So what if we start the game with 4 Lights and 1 "Medium"? IMHO it's just a name... If its good a primitive enough to be tier I, it might as well have been called a superheavy for it's time, as I think this tank shouldn't be discarted for cases of mere purism. The T2 is also called a "medium"... And with an 83mm derpgun, why not be called an early medium?
besides, the MarkI tank weighted 28 tons.  ;)

mr3awsome #7 Posted 28 December 2011 - 06:18 PM

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they are tier 2 and 3 respectively on the pre alpha tree
and whats wrong with the 3 pdr
also 83mm derp would be OP at tier 1

Catarraz #8 Posted 28 December 2011 - 09:08 PM

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View Postmr3awsome, on 28 December 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

also 83mm derp would be OP at tier 1

Maybe just another reason for it to be called a "medium"  :Smile_harp: 8mm armour on tier III doesn't make much sense to me.
If you were to install the 15pdr gun, MM would obviously start putting you in different battles in whichit wouldn't be OP.

Listy #9 Posted 28 December 2011 - 09:27 PM

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The reason behind me saying it should be T1 was it has worse armour and speed than the existing T1's.

Tuccy #10 Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:29 PM

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Provocative thought: Why cannot a Tier I be medium? Other trees have Lights as starters, but Brits were big on Medium tanks in disguise as Cruisers, so actually I would syy Brit tree's oddity may be having Medium tree from T1 upwards and Light tree branching off from Tier II (Vickers Light MkVI, for example)...

EDIT: It's not that it would be the only tech tree "oddity". US get Medium at Tier II (only ones to have it), Germans do not get Heavy till tier 7 (or, later onm till Tier 6)... I think a case could be built here. It would be better than artifically buffing Vickers Medium to compete at higher tiers... And the 3pdr gun, even in MkIII, was pretty poor penetrator, so it would be highest damage/low pen at Tier I, so not upsetting things much IMO.

Listy #11 Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:35 PM

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View PostTuccy, on 28 December 2011 - 10:29 PM, said:

Provocative thought: Why cannot a Tier I be medium? Other trees have Lights as starters, but Brits were big on Medium tanks in disguise as Cruisers, so actually I would syy Brit tree's oddity may be having Medium tree from T1 upwards and Light tree branching off from Tier II (Vickers Light MkVI, for example)...

EDIT: It's not that it would be the only tech tree "oddity". US get Medium at Tier II (only ones to have it), Germans do not get Heavy till tier 7 (or, later onm till Tier 6)... I think a case could be built here. It would be better than artifically buffing Vickers Medium to compete at higher tiers... And the 3pdr gun, even in MkIII, was pretty poor penetrator, so it would be highest damage/low pen at Tier I, so not upsetting things much IMO.

I always thought that the bigger shape, lower speed and worse armour would be made up for by the BFG.

Do you know something we don't? :D

Battledragon #12 Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:14 PM

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I think this should be a tier 2 medium, after all the American T2 medium is pretty much a copy of the Vickers mark 2 medium.

Catarraz #13 Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:38 PM

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They certainly don't look much alike in my opinion...

Listy #14 Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:11 AM

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View PostBattledragon, on 28 December 2011 - 11:14 PM, said:

I think this should be a tier 2 medium, after all the American T2 medium is pretty much a copy of the Vickers mark 2 medium.

Apart from the fact the T2 has nearly three times the armour thickness and is twice as fast?

Catarraz #15 Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:22 AM

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Sounding good!


Lolnewb #16 Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:58 PM

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View PostSWAT5773, on 28 December 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Interesting topic , well done :)



Agreed


:)

Lolnewb #17 Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:58 PM

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View PostSWAT5773, on 28 December 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Interesting topic , well done :)



Agreed


:)

ST809 #18 Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:23 PM

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Is it me or are the british tanks good gun but bad armour?
eg. the sherman firefly had a better gun than the american equivalent but the brits never realy had as meany heavy tanks as the US

theta0123 #19 Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:27 PM

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View PostST809, on 12 January 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

but the brits never realy had as meany heavy tanks as the US
euhm


what


British tanks>American tanks in WW2

At the start of normandy, the british had 1500 Fireflies and 1000 Achilles at there disposal. Capable of penetrating any german tank frontally exept the kingtiger
The americans had none
The british understood threats like the panther tank.


The british deployed 5000+ churchill tanks in WW2. These can be considerd Heavy tanks
The US.. 254 sherman jumbo's and a dozen of pershings at the end of the war

combattank #20 Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:12 AM

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Im still for vickers 6-ton mk E as T1 tank & its light
Armor fit (13mm front with some good slopes, may even bounce bad placed shots)
guns fit (starts at 20mm autocannon, ends at early 2pdr)




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