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Change my mind: Hard cap for TDs in Random Battles is a necessity


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WalhallaJPN #1 Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:06 PM

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Ok guys, some of you might thing of me as a weiner (intentional pun), but after I've returned to this game few weeks ago, the amounts of TDs and the changes to the game makes those games with 8 TDs on each side simply ridiculously boring.

 

 And yes, it's boring. Why can a class of vehicles, where most players play it as support, aka passive and defensively have presence even over 50% of all tanks in the game? (Aka 8 TDs on each side)

 

And those games make the gameplay stale and incredibly boring. 

 

Look, I remember the days when arta was many on the field, but I disliked those days as well. Now that the arta was sterilized against TDs (stun with no dmg, removed tracers, "infinite" repairs), the TDs rule the fields as a number 1 killjoy.

 

"But TDs got their viewrange nerfed" - Not enought if you ask me. Plus they gained bigger bushes to hide in. They usually have only 10-20m less then Heavies, not enough considering how much camo ratings they can usually achieve.

"But TDs need skill" - Not more skill then arta. You look and shoot at incomiing enemies. 

"But TDs damage was nerfed from 850 to 750 alfa" - And yet you still have 1100 APs and 1750 HESH in the game.

 

But don't get me wrong, playing a superheavy tank with 3 arta and to be stunned all the time is killjoy as well. It's also not fun to get penned with each shot by HEATs and APCRs for 0 impact to attacker. (I personally believe the cost of "gold ammo" should be normalized to about 10k credits for 500dmg worth of gold ammo)

 

TL/DR: Large amounts (4+) of TDs per game makes the game stale and boring, 



spidre #2 Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:55 PM

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For some time now I have been playing more aggressively with my TD's because it is obvious now that the more guns on target early in the battle can lead to better results. Most TD.s with their better camo can do well as spotters. If their are 3 Arty though, better to be more cautious. In short, look at the starting line up and adapt accordingly. The T67 is a gem of a scout, hull down, behind foliage. Have to say though, since the arrival of the dreaded wheelies, I don't play above tier 6 anymore.

1ucky #3 Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:58 PM

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You're right, we should put a hard cap on this.

I say no more than 12 TDs + 3 Arty max.



Balc0ra #4 Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:02 PM

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TD heavy games are rather rare for me to really see the need for a cap. Sure those games are slow and passive etc early on, even more so with no lights on your team. But personally, I don't see them as an issue vs LT heavy games that are over in 3 min on some maps.

 

As tbh, you could put up arguments why any class should have a cap pr team. Inc meds, even tho they don't need it either.



BQBD #5 Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:29 PM

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I have to agree with OP. Lately I am seeing a lot of games with 4+ TD's. Games are either stale and boring as tanks are mostly camping, or quickly over for you if mistakes are made during aggressive play.

But MM is doing what it cans in any given moment, this just means there are a lot of people playing TD's, wonder why that is the case :P

SaintMaddenus #6 Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:32 PM

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"or quickly over for you if mistakes are made during aggressive play"

are we still talking td or arty now?

change your mind?   stop and think if we adopt that policy we can end up removing everything from the game.  every post is from our own perspectives.  We would have lost lights and mediums before tds already  arty would be long gone.  all you would end up with is two heavies of exactly the same type slugging it out with standard ammo and they would have to both be the same tank.


 


 


Edited by SaintMaddenus, 09 October 2019 - 02:35 PM.


Negativvv #7 Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:36 PM

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I'm on MT15 For the T55a. I welcome more TDs...

Thejagdpanther #8 Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:43 PM

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You wrote some bullshep about tds (as everyone that whine about them) but the point is correct.

Heavy apart, all the others class MUST HAVE a cap.
Too much meds > dumb fast game
Too much tds > dumb slow game
Too much lights > dumb running game
Too much arta > fun for everyone :D

Edited by Thejagdpanther, 09 October 2019 - 02:51 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #9 Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:44 PM

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No thanks. Random battles are random, if you get a game with a lot of [insert tank here] then adapt your play accordingly.

Stevies_Team #10 Posted 09 October 2019 - 02:47 PM

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WoT have the answer

 

Frontline

 

Also, all players should receive a free EBR75-10 for xmas if they have been playing for at least 3 years



kaneloon #11 Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:38 PM

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EBR jumping everywhere with ghost TDs and Arties waiting to be fed - yes it is not fun for meds and heavies.

 

They are dead meat or "campers" ...



Dorander #12 Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:51 PM

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I see the point and don't see much of a problem with capping TDs per side so that 8 per side games no longer happen, but how high do you imagine the cap would actually be? I can count the amount of battles I see 8 TDs per side on one hand. With 5 classes, 3 of each type per side is the expected value so it'd have to be higher than that. Average out those extremes, 5 or 6 seems fine.

WalhallaJPN #13 Posted 10 October 2019 - 02:25 AM

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View Postspidre, on 09 October 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

For some time now I have been playing more aggressively with my TD's because it is obvious now that the more guns on target early in the battle can lead to better results. Most TD.s with their better camo can do well as spotters. If their are 3 Arty though, better to be more cautious. In short, look at the starting line up and adapt accordingly. The T67 is a gem of a scout, hull down, behind foliage. Have to say though, since the arrival of the dreaded wheelies, I don't play above tier 6 anymore.

 

T67 and few others can be exceptions, I meant this mostly for higher tiers, where you get your crew to 100%, even if you buy 75% one for credits, so T7-T8 and above. Look, before the nerfs to view range, I was quite often using Bert (FV304) as a scout, then back to some arta play. 

 

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 09 October 2019 - 01:44 PM, said:

No thanks. Random battles are random, if you get a game with a lot of [insert tank here] then adapt your play accordingly.

 

If you get into a game with 7arta, adapt accordingly... Oh wait. XD

 

View PostStevies_Team, on 09 October 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

WoT have the answer

 

Frontline

 

Also, all players should receive a free EBR75-10 for xmas if they have been playing for at least 3 years

 

I enjoy frontlines a lot, but not active all the time, so... XD

 

View PostDorander, on 09 October 2019 - 03:51 PM, said:

I see the point and don't see much of a problem with capping TDs per side so that 8 per side games no longer happen, but how high do you imagine the cap would actually be? I can count the amount of battles I see 8 TDs per side on one hand. With 5 classes, 3 of each type per side is the expected value so it'd have to be higher than that. Average out those extremes, 5 or 6 seems fine.

 

Personally I would make different standarts for each map. Just as an exmaple, lets say Himmersdorf would have limits of 1 Arta + 7 TD, meanwhile Malinovka would be 3 Arta + 4TD



Spurtung #14 Posted 10 October 2019 - 02:43 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 09 October 2019 - 01:44 PM, said:

No thanks. Random battles are random, if you get a game with a lot of [insert tank here] then adapt your play accordingly.

 

Let me guess, we can't insert [SPG] on that rule...

01:45 Added after 2 minute

View PostStevies_Team, on 09 October 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

Also, all players should receive a free EBR75-10 for xmas if they have been playing for at least 3 years

 

Granted. NEXT!



chainreact0r #15 Posted 10 October 2019 - 07:47 AM

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Too many TD's in a battle can be a bit of a problem sometimes. However, most of the times when they get spotted they melt in a few seconds. So if you pay attention to the battle, you can easily be the one doing the spotting/tracking so it's quite an easy farm.

 

Too many meds can never be a problem, because both teams have the same amount. You have a team overwhelming the other when they have the same amount of meds. You could say that one team may get fast auto loaders and the other E-50Ms or whatever. That might be true, but on average when tank distribution is even, the games won't end much faster than in a random game with a couple of each class.

 

Too many heavies may or may not be a problem, depending on what tank you are currently playing. If you play 279, you want as many E-100s and T57 bots to farm. If you get uptiered in a heavy or get a city map with invulnerable tanks on every side of every flank, the HE spam that will ensue is quite annoying.

 

Where the problem may arise, is in arty and LT's. Arty for obvious reasons, and light tanks cause the maps are so small that a light tank can easily cover everything and too many just get in each other's ways. On some maps you need 2 but that's it. But even 3-4 LTs per team is not that bad. They'll likely just die in the 1st minute and turn the game into a 12v12. 

 

The REAL problem though, is when you get 4 LTs and 3 arty. If you are not one of the lights or arties, you are basically fighting an 8v8(so not much potential damage) while getting crapped on the whole battle. The worst possible combinaton, really.

 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #16 Posted 10 October 2019 - 07:55 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 10 October 2019 - 02:43 AM, said:

Let me guess, we can't insert [SPG] on that rule...

 

Nope, it still works.



Spurtung #17 Posted 10 October 2019 - 07:56 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 10 October 2019 - 06:55 AM, said:

 

Nope, it still works.

 

They're already capped at 3, though.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #18 Posted 10 October 2019 - 08:03 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 10 October 2019 - 07:56 AM, said:

 

They're already capped at 3, though.

 

Yes... and where SPG are concerned three is 'a lot' :)



Gruff_ #19 Posted 10 October 2019 - 05:04 PM

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They came for arty now they come for TD's :)

Dorander #20 Posted 11 October 2019 - 12:09 AM

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View PostWalhallaJPN, on 10 October 2019 - 01:25 AM, said:

 

Personally I would make different standarts for each map. Just as an exmaple, lets say Himmersdorf would have limits of 1 Arta + 7 TD, meanwhile Malinovka would be 3 Arta + 4TD

 

That seems pointlessly arbitrary, TDs are not motionless turrets. It also neglects the difference between assault TDs and sniper TDs.

 

I can very well understand limiting excesses in order to create a more versatile playing environment but camping and sniping is a mentality issue, not a tank type issue.






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