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Which are the two slowest, campiest, most corridor-y and least open maps?


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superfly2000 #1 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:20 AM

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The two maps that usually take the longest time and when players camp even more then usual I mean.

 

These maps are probably typical corridor maps and in worst case with no open areas at all and usually almost no chance to spot.

 

I am just taking a wild guess here, but these two maps feel especially boring for me (as a light tank player): Airfield and Ruinberg.


Edited by superfly2000, 14 October 2019 - 10:53 AM.


tajj7 #2 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:28 AM

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Both those maps are less campy than Prohk or Malinovka, I'd imagine games on both of them are on average faster as well.

 

Ruinberg for a city map is ok, it's an average map. You can progress in the city, create angles, create some cross fire from village to city/middle and vice versa, field camping positions are annoying but are a little more easy counter than the red line camping spots on many maps because you have routes with cover/concealment to flank them. 

 

Airfield is 'you push, you lose' map, far too many base camping/red line camping spots on that map which means any sort of aggression or forward play is punished by campers. 

 

Too many maps are like that, they basically draw a line down the middle between the two teams and its very hard to progress past that middle line unless a massive gap opens up.

 

Minks is another one, that central road basically keeps the teams apart but you struggle to actually make any plays or have any options to progress across it without a huge overload co-ordinated push. And there is no co-operation between flanks, which is where it differs to something like Prohk that has a similar seperating middle ridge but co-operation from the middle and hill means you can have flanks working together to create an advantageous map advantage and actually progress the game.

 

Just Prohk is often held up digging out campers on the 1 line because they have made all the bushes on most maps OP. 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #3 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:29 AM

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Malinovka can take forever but it doesn't have any corridors and mostly open. It's the soft cover design at both ends of the hill that causes that. Murovanka, Erlenberg, Fisherman's bay, etc. all can produce extremely long and campy games because of cover design. I'd like to also point out that this is one of the oldest "feature" in the game. Open ground before the cap and very good cover for the base defenders were there since the very beginning. That is like the symbian of WG.



Jethro_Grey #4 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:31 AM

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I'd say pretty much each and everyone. 

Stevies_Team #5 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:33 AM

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There might be stats somewhere that tell you which maps end up in a draw the most often

HassenderZerhacker #6 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:34 AM

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View Postsuperfly2000, on 14 October 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

The two maps that usually take the longest time and when players camp even more then usual I mean.

 

These maps are probably typical corridor maps and in worst case with no open areas at all and usually almost no chance to spot.

 

I am just taking a wild guess here, but these two maps feel especially boring for me (as a light tank player): Airfield and Ruinberg.

 

hmm.. and not Ensk and not Himmelsdorf??



superfly2000 #7 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:57 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 14 October 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

hmm.. and not Ensk and not Himmelsdorf??

 

Actually no!

They might seem at first but in Ensk it might be possible to do some spotting through the middle early and then later on the field side, even though very hard/dangerous. However, Ensk goes surprisingly fast most times and if the team is winning you can farm with a light :-)

Kind of same for Himmels, with the added ability to yolo rails and have some early action if some plebs join the yolo ;-)

I changed the topic slightly.


Edited by superfly2000, 14 October 2019 - 11:37 AM.


LordMuffin #8 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:02 AM

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Personally I feel Steppes have moved up quite a bit in the drawing chances since the changes.

Another drawish map is Prokhorovka or Tundra or any other open map with 3 arty.

The combination of super strong camping positions, current bush mechanics and 3 arties are just to strong to break unless overwhelming numbers is possible.
10:04 Added after 1 minute

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 14 October 2019 - 10:29 AM, said:

Malinovka can take forever but it doesn't have any corridors and mostly open. It's the soft cover design at both ends of the hill that causes that. Murovanka, Erlenberg, Fisherman's bay, etc. all can produce extremely long and campy games because of cover design. I'd like to also point out that this is one of the oldest "feature" in the game. Open ground before the cap and very good cover for the base defenders were there since the very beginning. That is like the symbian of WG.

Having a line of bushes like at each side of field of Malinovka is ok.

Having a second line of bushes behind the cap area, like on Studzianski is terrible design.



fwhaatpiraat #9 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 14 October 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

Another drawish map is Prokhorovka or Tundra or any other open map with 3 arty.

I think you mean Karelia instead of Tundra.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 14 October 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Having a line of bushes like at each side of field of Malinovka is ok.

Having a second line of bushes behind the cap area, like on Studzianski is terrible design.

 

There is not a line of bushes at each end of Malinovka's hill. There is a forest with dense cover at each end which could result in a very lengthy game. That was the OP's description.

 

@superfly

 

You might find these results interesting and informative. It was a survey that was conducted recently about maps' popularity in WOT. You can see the favorite maps for each cluster and more importantly, Why? What makes a map bad or good in WOT according to the community.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 14 October 2019 - 11:28 AM.


Balc0ra #11 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:25 AM

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Airfield is slow due to that HT line with all the TD guns sitting behind it. But still, both sides want's to push. But not as slow as Prokhorovka IMO. Even more so if the lights ignore the 1 line, or you have no lights. As that map goes into the last 2 min more so than any other map as there no one wants to push blind on the 1 lane as it's really dense with bushes blocking LOS. And usually draws out until one team pushes the 0 lane to flank spot.



tajj7 #12 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:36 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 14 October 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

There is not a line of bushes at each end of Malinovka's hill. There is a forest with dense cover at each end which could result in a very lengthy game. That was the OP's description.

 

Those forests used to be a lot less dense in the pre-1.0 version of the map and of course the pre-1.0 bushes were far less strong, so it was a lot easier to dig campers out there.

 

That is a problem on many maps IMO, there are base camping/red line locations that are just too strong and favour the campers when they really shouldn't, once you win map control you should win a game fairly easily, it should be hard to fight back from that, but these days its way easier and map control becomes less important. 

 

You get the to the stupid situation where both teams are fairly close on HP/numbers but one team controls 3/4s of the map, but can't actually do anything with that advantage because they still have to push into positions that massively favour the campers. 



superfly2000 #13 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:38 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 14 October 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

Airfield is slow due to that HT line with all the TD guns sitting behind it. But still, both sides want's to push. But not as slow as Prokhorovka IMO. Even more so if the lights ignore the 1 line, or you have no lights. As that map goes into the last 2 min more so than any other map as there no one wants to push blind on the 1 lane as it's really dense with bushes blocking LOS. And usually draws out until one team pushes the 0 lane to flank spot.

 

Also as a light player who is actually trying to spot Airfield is one of the worst maps.

 

You completely have to wait for the team to win "by themselves" which is like "yeah, good luck with that".



XxKuzkina_MatxX #14 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:46 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 14 October 2019 - 02:36 PM, said:

 

Those forests used to be a lot less dense in the pre-1.0 version of the map and of course the pre-1.0 bushes were far less strong, so it was a lot easier to dig campers out there.

 

That is a problem on many maps IMO, there are base camping/red line locations that are just too strong and favour the campers when they really shouldn't, once you win map control you should win a game fairly easily, it should be hard to fight back from that, but these days its way easier and map control becomes less important. 

 

You get the to the stupid situation where both teams are fairly close on HP/numbers but one team controls 3/4s of the map, but can't actually do anything with that advantage because they still have to push into positions that massively favour the campers. 

 

Pre or post 1.0, does it matter? It was always the preferred spot for arty and at least 2 or 3 TDs. How effecient was the cover, how it became or how they used it was not my point. This was an example to the OP of how can a map with no corridors and a lot of open space produce a campy and lengthy battles too.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 14 October 2019 - 11:47 AM.


superfly2000 #15 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:57 AM

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The disappointment when you realize locked-out maps still appear in encounter and assault mode    :amazed:
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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 14 October 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

 

..... This was an example to the OP of how can a map with no corridors and a lot of open space produce a campy and lengthy battles too.

 

Yes, but lengthy was just one of the traits I mentioned. I know, the title/topic is a bit broad......



sebastianpotato #16 Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:06 PM

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From a light tank players point of view: The best indicator for slowish, campish, corridorish maps simply is the impossibility to gain map control and/or an HP advantage early in the match with an aggressive move. Airfield and Minsk are the best examples.



____Green____ #17 Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:16 PM

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Airfield is just a crap map and that middle are cries for rework. My opinion, airfield can be a nice assault map with circle right on the central peak.

 

Empires border - assault is just pure crap. That circle must be relocated in green side right in the middle of the field to avoid capture in early state.

 

Erlenberg - just make it smaller! Its way to big and full with no playable areas.

 

Minsk - that city part (HT line) must be connected without that monument park to have good old HT battle. Now its just camping.

 

Cliff - less bushes and rocks on  HT line to avoid 10 tanks camping same position on both sides. Instead of bushes and rocks we can put there some houses on both sides to make some good cover from spgs

 

Lakeville - one extra rock on swamp to make small alternative driveway and cover from spg spam.

https://i.imgur.com/gLPfUMF.jpg like in this pic where red dot is huge stone. And in my opinion @ E;F-4 shoud be a small platform with cover from all sides with rock in the middle for PvP if u have chance to fight there with other mt/lt

 


Edited by ____Green____, 14 October 2019 - 12:23 PM.


tajj7 #18 Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:02 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 14 October 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

 

Pre or post 1.0, does it matter? It was always the preferred spot for arty and at least 2 or 3 TDs. How effecient was the cover, how it became or how they used it was not my point. This was an example to the OP of how can a map with no corridors and a lot of open space produce a campy and lengthy battles too.

 

Yes it does matter because the map used to be far less campy, despite having a very similar layout because they added better and more concealment which makes tanks a lot harder to dig out. From what I remember old Malinovka, if you progressed to those forests it wasn't that hard to outspot people so it didn't produce as campy and lengthy battles despite being an open map, its only become that more since 1.0. 

 

The problem arises from WG designing new maps/modifying others with this sort of premise -

 

Block Quote

 The mountains near the bases have been revised—now they can be used to maintain defence.

 

^ That is from the super test of the re-worked Pearl River, WG constantly adding base camping positions. 

 

https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-tanks/supertest-pearl-river-iteration-ii/

 

But maybe they have realised the problem with HD bushes slowing the game down too much, because for one version of the two proposed Pearl Rivers, in that same article, it says this -

 

Block Quote

 In terms of global changes: all the shrubbery has been removed from the map, there is nothing but trees now. Only felled trees can be used for concealment now.

 

 



superfly2000 #19 Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:11 PM

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View Post____Green____, on 14 October 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

Airfield is just a crap map and that middle are cries for rework. My opinion, airfield can be a nice assault map with circle right on the central peak.

 

 

Well, it needs to be made bigger for starters, so that you have any chance in hell to advance further then 1/3 of the map as a light at all.....



SuNo_TeSLa #20 Posted 14 October 2019 - 03:28 PM

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Airfield and drumroll... Province (i know it's lowtier, but it's a good old shitfest)




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