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Genuine question, honestly.


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prskanje #1 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:14 PM

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You might've guessed it, this is about WVs.

 

What exactly is a light tank's purpose since these wheelies were introduced?

 

I'm grinding through the LTG now so I'd like to learn something about general LT gameplay nowadays.

 

Don't worry, the frustration is present. It's just that I see how rage typers get handled here. 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:20 PM

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Spotting, WV are blind by comparison.

 

The main issue is LT players thinking they can just carry on doing the same thing they've always done, take the same bushes and positions they always have, without taking the WV into account. The meta has changed slightly, adapt or suffer the consequences. 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #3 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:23 PM

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Pseudo mediums with better camo in some cases. Tiny TDs or clip assassins for others. All other functions beside spotting were present to a degree before the introduction of wheeled vehicles.

 

Light tanks as any other class don't exist in a vacuum. They are part of an ecosystem and their role can and will change as new tanks are introduced in the game. You do your best in a battle with what you got and what the enemy have. The efficiency is tied mostly to your game play not a direct result of the vehicle stats.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 15 October 2019 - 08:24 PM.


8126Jakobsson #4 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:28 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2019 - 08:20 PM, said:

Spotting, WV are blind by comparison.

 

The main issue is LT players thinking they can just carry on doing the same thing they've always done, take the same bushes and positions they always have, without taking the WV into account. The meta has changed slightly, adapt or suffer the consequences. 


I mostly agree but the problem is that those bushes and positions are what they have to work with. If you are a light that can't play there then you might as well be playing a medium instead (which many say one should anyway). But yeah I don't think that the wheelies have made standard lights obsolete. They've only made their job more uncomfortable. 



UserZer00 #5 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:32 PM

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I believe the idea is:

     1) Spot early   

     2) Survive till late game as back-line support / flanker

     3) Clean up late game 

 

Of course, knowing what to do and putting it into practice are two different beasts.

 

Keep in mind that the actual strategy will vary depending upon the tank.  Certain lights have really no chance at getting early spots these days.



gunslingerXXX #6 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:39 PM

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At tier 8+ light have no purpose in my opinion. Thanks to all those p2w crews, crew books & boosters everybody has highly skilled crew. Combined with bond equipment, food and directives, the viewrange of mediums, heavies and TD's is just too much to allow spotting by lights. Here WV work much better (I think, I'm only at the lynx).

Erwin_Von_Braun #7 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:41 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:

adapt or suffer the consequences.

Bit like arty...:hiding:



prskanje #8 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:47 PM

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So... Nerfed medium tanks?

gunslingerXXX #9 Posted 15 October 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View Postprskanje, on 15 October 2019 - 08:47 PM, said:

So... Nerfed medium tanks?

Sort of like playing the game on hard mode :teethhappy:



Balc0ra #10 Posted 15 October 2019 - 09:06 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 15 October 2019 - 08:28 PM, said:


I mostly agree but the problem is that those bushes and positions are what they have to work with. If you are a light that can't play there then you might as well be playing a medium instead (which many say one should anyway). But yeah I don't think that the wheelies have made standard lights obsolete. They've only made their job more uncomfortable. 

 

It depends on the map. As on some maps have fewer spots for passive spotting, and they can spot you early getting into the such locations with ease. And you have drive back into cover and try again. On other maps like Malinovka you have more options, as the EBR can only quick counter one spot tbh early on.

 

But on Mines wheels makes an LT's job harder to fight for the center. But on Malinovka, his blindness vs speed needs greater risk. And thus a track light might have him lit long before he sees anything. Tho after grinding the UK LT line. I would not say passive is dead, or useless. Just a bit more.... situational. As on some maps you need to observer the map more early on before you really go for spots. As the EBR is the first spotted 9 out 10 times. And then you just decide base on that. As getting there a bit late is not an issue on some maps. But will be on others. 

 

 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #11 Posted 15 October 2019 - 09:17 PM

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View Postprskanje, on 15 October 2019 - 11:47 PM, said:

So... Nerfed medium tanks?

 

Labeling isn't very useful here, it's their game play that matters. You can classify tanks into (recon-infantry-cavalry), (recon-infantry-cruiser) or (light-medium-heavy) and still get a mixed game play for a particular tank OR the wrong label. It doesn't matter if you can still get things done.



8126Jakobsson #12 Posted 15 October 2019 - 10:04 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 15 October 2019 - 09:06 PM, said:

 

It depends on the map. As on some maps have fewer spots for passive spotting, and they can spot you early getting into the such locations with ease. And you have drive back into cover and try again. On other maps like Malinovka you have more options, as the EBR can only quick counter one spot tbh early on.

 

But on Mines wheels makes an LT's job harder to fight for the center. But on Malinovka, his blindness vs speed needs greater risk. And thus a track light might have him lit long before he sees anything. Tho after grinding the UK LT line. I would not say passive is dead, or useless. Just a bit more.... situational. As on some maps you need to observer the map more early on before you really go for spots. As the EBR is the first spotted 9 out 10 times. And then you just decide base on that. As getting there a bit late is not an issue on some maps. But will be on others. 

 

 

 

I'm not so sure about those examples. None of them wants to fight on Mines. Sure the wheelie gets on hill faster but all they really care about is the support that they may or may not have with them.

And I think that Malinovka is one of the most troublesome ones when it comes to lights vs wheels. One of the few tasks that a light can do better there is sitting in the op field bush (that initially should get nuked and doesn't have much of a shelf life anyway). But a wheelie can hardcounter that (especially from the west) if its not in the mood for going straight to mid and make life miserable for the travellers. 

 

With that said I still have more trust in my lights. They're more of a precise, methodical and patient surgery while the wheelie drive around and pray to RNGsus. Or something.   



Balc0ra #13 Posted 15 October 2019 - 10:38 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 15 October 2019 - 10:04 PM, said:

 

I'm not so sure about those examples. None of them wants to fight on Mines. Sure the wheelie gets on hill faster but all they really care about is the support that they may or may not have with them.

And I think that Malinovka is one of the most troublesome ones when it comes to lights vs wheels. One of the few tasks that a light can do better there is sitting in the op field bush (that initially should get nuked and doesn't have much of a shelf life anyway). But a wheelie can hardcounter that (especially from the west) if its not in the mood for going straight to mid and make life miserable for the travellers. 

 

With that said I still have more trust in my lights. They're more of a precise, methodical and patient surgery while the wheelie drive around and pray to RNGsus. Or something.   

 

I do see tracked lights favor the 1 line more often if the enemy had wheels on Mines. But the point was more that on maps like that, their speed is an advantage, and their view range is not a hinder. And on maps like Malinovka. Wheels vs passive tracked is not always ideal. But west indeed likes to counter the bush near the lake first. It's why I don't like to go there as a first option in slow tracked lights vs enemy wheels.

 

And tbh... even with the UK lights, tracks and passive is still the way I like my lights even now too. 13 90 is still my fav over even the EBR 90. Even tho that was fun too at times. But that's just me.



Dorander #14 Posted 15 October 2019 - 11:25 PM

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View Postprskanje, on 15 October 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

You might've guessed it, this is about WVs.

 

What exactly is a light tank's purpose since these wheelies were introduced?

 

I'm grinding through the LTG now so I'd like to learn something about general LT gameplay nowadays.

 

Don't worry, the frustration is present. It's just that I see how rage typers get handled here. 



Well kudos to you for writing a decent post instead of letting your frustration dictate your language.

 

I'm having some trouble figuring out why I'd play light tanks these days too. The only thing a light tank has over a medium tank is that it doesn't lose camouflage when moving, but especially at high tiers where you should expect to get spotted when you're within 445m of enemy positions, one wonders what that bonus is good for. I guess they tend to be a bit smaller and more mobile too, but whether that makes up for the difference in firepower...

 

Of course, if they had the same firepower as mediums, paper mediums would then be bad lights. There has to be some difference. I think currently lights and paper mediums are closer to each other in playstyle than lights and WVs are, even though lights and WVs are the same type technically. I like WVs for what you couldn't really do with lights at high tiers (and arguably not with WVs either but at least you have more fun before you die): yolo into the enemy lines, dodging shells like you're the Flash, and hoping you don't trip over your own wheels or drive into a shell path.

 

That said if I wanted to properly scout, I'd pick a light tank for its viewrange and versatility. On various maps a light tank just handles better because it doesn't *have* to go full speed and it can turn in place. Light tanks are scouts. WVs are skirmishers.



kaneloon #15 Posted 15 October 2019 - 11:50 PM

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In CW team battles wheels win over passive spotters as their teams soon estimate where the spotter is and the wheeler just has to direct its trajectory there.

As soon as spotted the passive scout is out, and the tank with wheels will most of the time escape.

 

About the LTG : it has some ramming possibilities, low profile and ok camo so it can still work imo. 

At tiers 8 the lt432 >>> lttb (and can carry a t100lt crew).

At tiers 9 the t54 light is a ... lighter t54 ... so it's pretty ok.

At tiers 10 the t100lt still has a good camo and some gun.



Slyspy #16 Posted 16 October 2019 - 01:32 AM

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View Postprskanje, on 15 October 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

What exactly is a light tank's purpose since these wheelies were introduced?

 

 

 

Beyond your own entertainment? Nothing really, on most maps. 



SovietBias #17 Posted 16 October 2019 - 01:43 AM

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The purpose is still the same. You fight for vision advantage in the maps where it matters and you are constantly on the look out for opportunities to create cross fires and 2v1 with your teammates. Once the initial deployment is known, you evaluate where your contribution is better used since you can move to any spot of the map in time. 

 

It's just that EBRs can 1)play the same role as effectively; 2) can best out lights in 1v1  3) are able to create chaos in enemy lines just by driving by and spotting tanks moving into positions early, leading to a lot of time and HP wasted trying to shoot them and getting shot back. Map dimensions and spotting ranges makes it so that in a game with such vehicles, every map becomes Ensk Assault.

 

I don't like them one bit. But they won't be going away, unfortunately.

 

In the odd chance you need one for CW, the Russian T100 and perhaps the French AMX can fill some gap. But I believe CW is now a EBR meta. 

 

As for ranked battles, lights are a bad choice.

So yeah, mostly for random battles and the occasional campaign mission.


Edited by SovietBias, 16 October 2019 - 01:48 AM.


Spurtung #18 Posted 16 October 2019 - 04:27 AM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 15 October 2019 - 07:28 PM, said:

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 15 October 2019 - 08:20 PM, said:

Spotting, WV are blind by comparison.

 

The main issue is LT players thinking they can just carry on doing the same thing they've always done, take the same bushes and positions they always have, without taking the WV into account. The meta has changed slightly, adapt or suffer the consequences. 


I mostly agree but the problem is that those bushes and positions are what they have to work with. If you are a light that can't play there then you might as well be playing a medium instead (which many say one should anyway). But yeah I don't think that the wheelies have made standard lights obsolete. They've only made their job more uncomfortable. 

 

Why?

 

Instead of going to The Bush™, you go to a previous bush and spot the wheelie that will try to smoke you out of The Bush™:

- if your team is competent and times their shots well, wheelie is gone quickly and you can THEN proceed to The Bush™.

- if your team is not competent, they'll sit in the open tunnel visioning the wheelie and trying to shoot it while its team picks them one by one.

 

One should also not forget that usually wheelies get a matching opponent, for the sake of honesty.

 



Cobra6 #19 Posted 16 October 2019 - 07:21 AM

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View Postprskanje, on 15 October 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

You might've guessed it, this is about WVs.

 

What exactly is a light tank's purpose since these wheelies were introduced?

 

I'm grinding through the LTG now so I'd like to learn something about general LT gameplay nowadays.

 

Don't worry, the frustration is present. It's just that I see how rage typers get handled here. 


Their function is to combat WV's with their superior view range if the LT driver isn't dumb enough to get into the very front line at the start of the match to get wrecked and then come complaining on the forums how WV's are broken rather then seeing their own aggressive play style was the issue here.

 

Cobra 6



Inappropriate_noob #20 Posted 16 October 2019 - 11:25 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 15 October 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

Pseudo mediums with better camo in some cases. Tiny TDs or clip assassins for others. All other functions beside spotting were present to a degree before the introduction of wheeled vehicles.

 

Light tanks as any other class don't exist in a vacuum. They are part of an ecosystem and their role can and will change as new tanks are introduced in the game. You do your best in a battle with what you got and what the enemy have. The efficiency is tied mostly to your game play not a direct result of the vehicle stats.

What role does the ELC Even 90 have then?

 

Decent camo is all it has






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