Jump to content


What Do Vheeled Wehicles Actually Bring to The Game?

Gameplay Not a Rant Pointless?

  • Please log in to reply
100 replies to this topic

Erwin_Von_Braun #21 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:38 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 17 October 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

 

Providing very aggressive spotting beyond the limits of normal light tanks game play. That's what the developers said about the wheeled vehicles in their Q&A during Gamescom 2019.

 

Unstoppable and very fast they do just that and they also have nice camo and extremely good gun handling as a bonus.


 

I see your point there - if only we had maps to make use of such a feature:(



Homer_J #22 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:38 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Moderator
  • 33364 battles
  • 36,997
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 October 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

Did you even read the OP?

 

I'm replying to it aren't I?  Am I just making random stuff up to reply to.

 

OK, here's your question back to you, what do German vehicles bring to the game?  They don't do anything which the other nations do.



Erwin_Von_Braun #23 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:39 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostHomer_J, on 17 October 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

 

I'm replying to it aren't I?  Am I just making random stuff up to reply to.

 

OK, here's your question back to you, what do German vehicles bring to the game?  They don't do anything which the other nations do.

It's a vehicle class thing, not a national thing.

 

But I'm pretty sure you knew that anyway.


 


Edited by Erwin_Von_Braun, 17 October 2019 - 08:41 AM.


TungstenHitman #24 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:42 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 32004 battles
  • 6,499
  • [B_M_G] B_M_G
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016
They brought something new and different to the game, that was their purpose, nothing more. Same as A-L, A-R, siege mode, double barreled shotguns soon coming, Front Lines, Ranked Battles, Steel Hunter, Grand Battles, new maps, HD, reusable consumables, marathons, events etc etc. Something new with the intention of keeping a perceived stale game fresh and worth bothering with. Some things worked, something didn't and somethings both did and didn't depending on who's giving their opinion on it lol. 

Erwin_Von_Braun #25 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:46 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 October 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

They brought something new and different to the game, that was their purpose, nothing more. Same as A-L, A-R, siege mode, double barreled shotguns soon coming, Front Lines, Ranked Battles, Steel Hunter, Grand Battles, new maps, HD, reusable consumables, marathons, events etc etc. Something new with the intention of keeping a perceived stale game fresh and worth bothering with. Some things worked, something didn't and somethings both did and didn't depending on who's giving their opinion on it lol.

So it's a content for the sake of content thing?

They don't enhance gameplay, or detract from it for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate them I just think they're a little pointless.



Homer_J #26 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:46 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Moderator
  • 33364 battles
  • 36,997
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 October 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

It's a vehicle class thing, not a national thing.

 

But I'm pretty sure you knew that anyway.


 


OK, what do medium tanks add, their job can be done better by either fast heavies or light tanks.  No need for a middle class which is neither fast nor armoured.



tajj7 #27 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:48 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29072 battles
  • 17,285
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014
A lot of whine from bad players. 

Erwin_Von_Braun #28 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:49 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostHomer_J, on 17 October 2019 - 07:46 AM, said:


OK, what do medium tanks add, their job can be done better by either fast heavies or light tanks.  No need for a middle class which is neither fast nor armoured.

Meds were there from the beginning were they not?

Even if they weren't, expanding classes like that in the early stages of the game was surely a good thing - if they have been made irrelevant over time, that's an entirely different matter.


 



Homer_J #29 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:50 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Moderator
  • 33364 battles
  • 36,997
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 October 2019 - 08:49 AM, said:

Meds were there from the beginning were they not?
 


Did you read the question?  I didn't ask if they were there from the beginning, I asked what they bring.



Erwin_Von_Braun #30 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:53 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostHomer_J, on 17 October 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:


Did you read the question?  I didn't ask if they were there from the beginning, I asked what they bring.

I'll put this again: "expanding classes like that in the early stages of the game was surely a good thing - if they have been made irrelevant over time, that's an entirely different matter"

So, they were relevant from their inception.

I can't see the same thing in WV's


 

07:55 Added after 1 minute

View Posttajj7, on 17 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

A lot of whine from bad players.

Gosh, reading is difficult for some today isn't it?


 


 


 



Spurtung #31 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:56 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 77179 battles
  • 7,433
  • [WG_PT] WG_PT
  • Member since:
    07-05-2013

View Posttajj7, on 17 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

A lot of whine from bad players. 

 

How is that new, though?



XxKuzkina_MatxX #32 Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:57 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 53231 battles
  • 5,631
  • Member since:
    04-02-2016

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 October 2019 - 11:38 AM, said:

I see your point there - if only we had maps to make use of such a feature:(

 

Well they aren't limitless. Just like every class/tank there will some maps they won't like playing on. Even the infamous Type 5 and 268V4 hated Prokhorovka for example. :)

 

If i handed you this list of city maps, corridor maps or maps which don't favor light tanks game play. Do you think you can add more to it?

 

  1. Abbey
  2. Airfield
  3. Ensk
  4. Himmelsdorf
  5. Minsk
  6. Overlord
  7. Paris
  8. Province
  9. Ruinberg
  10. Tundra
  11. Widepark

 

Just keep in mind that i am not asking if a good battle could be had on these maps. I am talking about consistent good light tanks battles.



Erwin_Von_Braun #33 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:03 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 17 October 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

 

Well they aren't limitless. Just like every class/tank there will some maps they won't like playing on. Even the infamous Type 5 and 268V4 hated Prokhorovka for example. :)

 

If i handed you this list of city maps, corridor maps or maps which don't favor light tanks game play. Do you think you can add more to it?

 

  1. Abbey
  2. Airfield
  3. Ensk
  4. Himmelsdorf
  5. Minsk
  6. Overlord
  7. Paris
  8. Province
  9. Ruinberg
  10. Tundra
  11. Widepark

 

Just keep in mind that i am not asking if a good battle could be had on these maps. I am talking about consistent good light tanks battles.

If I'm being brutally honest, I don't know many map names - only the poo ones that I don't like tend to stick in the mind.

A good battle can be had on any map though, given the right circumstances.

The only map I can think of that is a superb LT map str8 away is Fiery Salient (and it's non-fiery counterpart) - there are others that I can picture but couldn't tell you their names for the life of me:D


Edited by Erwin_Von_Braun, 17 October 2019 - 09:11 AM.


tajj7 #34 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:04 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29072 battles
  • 17,285
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostSpurtung, on 17 October 2019 - 07:56 AM, said:

 

How is that new, though?

 

No, it's just a different whine, just shakes up their general complaints from premium ammo, rigged MM etc. 



Erwin_Von_Braun #35 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:10 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View Posttajj7, on 17 October 2019 - 08:04 AM, said:

 

No, it's just a different whine, just shakes up their general complaints from premium ammo, rigged MM etc.

Or arty?

Everyone loves a good arty whine don't they?

 

Besides, this isn't a whine, it's an attempt at understanding - something I would humbly suggest that your good self try.



TungstenHitman #36 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:19 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 32004 battles
  • 6,499
  • [B_M_G] B_M_G
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

View Posttajj7, on 17 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

A lot of whine from bad players. 

 

Players not liking a non-tank class in a tank game doesn't automatically make them bad players. You don't like arty right? Well I guess you're a bad player then. Adapt and grow up, it's just some guys clicking a map, I thought you were supposed to be good. 

 

O wait that's right, liking and not liking something has nothing to do with skill, it's a personal preference choice, and this is why someone like you would not make a forum mod. You're strongly opinionated and anyone that dislikes something you like or likes something you don't is simply a bad player or you put some ignorant wash on it like that. Now, if a person says untrue things about something to make that their point of argument, this is different and wrong, but simply liking or not liking something is a personal choice, but as usual you take the opportunity to apply some condescending ridicule as though your opinion carries more weight or as though you find everything in the game to be perfectly balanced and just a case of bad players whining. Some players hate arty, some players hate cars, some players hate gold ammo and some players cry about clan tanks being sold while others don't care about any of it. Grow up mate. 



Erwin_Von_Braun #37 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:46 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44015 battles
  • 6,750
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 October 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

 

Players not liking a non-tank class in a tank game doesn't automatically make them bad players. You don't like arty right? Well I guess you're a bad player then. Adapt and grow up, it's just some guys clicking a map, I thought you were supposed to be good.

 

O wait that's right, liking and not liking something has nothing to do with skill, it's a personal preference choice, and this is why someone like you would not make a forum mod. You're strongly opinionated and anyone that dislikes something you like or likes something you don't is simply a bad player or you put some ignorant wash on it like that. Now, if a person says untrue things about something to make that their point of argument, this is different and wrong, but simply liking or not liking something is a personal choice, but as usual you take the opportunity to apply some condescending ridicule as though your opinion carries more weight or as though you find everything in the game to be perfectly balanced and just a case of bad players whining. Some players hate arty, some players hate cars, some players hate gold ammo and some players cry about clan tanks being sold while others don't care about any of it. Grow up mate.

All of this^

For the record, I neither love or loathe them - I just can't see why they're here.



tajj7 #38 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:55 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29072 battles
  • 17,285
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostTungstenHitman, on 17 October 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

 

Players not liking a non-tank class in a tank game doesn't automatically make them bad players. You don't like arty right? Well I guess you're a bad player then. Adapt and grow up, it's just some guys clicking a map, I thought you were supposed to be good. 

 

O wait that's right, liking and not liking something has nothing to do with skill, it's a personal preference choice, and this is why someone like you would not make a forum mod. You're strongly opinionated and anyone that dislikes something you like or likes something you don't is simply a bad player or you put some ignorant wash on it like that. Now, if a person says untrue things about something to make that their point of argument, this is different and wrong, but simply liking or not liking something is a personal choice, but as usual you take the opportunity to apply some condescending ridicule as though your opinion carries more weight or as though you find everything in the game to be perfectly balanced and just a case of bad players whining. Some players hate arty, some players hate cars, some players hate gold ammo and some players cry about clan tanks being sold while others don't care about any of it. Grow up mate. 

 

Do you see me making any arty whine threads like the wheeled vehicle ones that commonly pop on the forums? 

 

No, because I deal with it and get on with the game. 

 

However, the comparison is silly anyway, there is a difference between genuine complaints about something like arty where you explain why with a reasoned argument, and a thread like the ones we see for WVs that are most of the time just pointless whines.

 

Saying 'I don't like something' is not a reason or argument for something to be nerfed or removed. Nor is adding wild or unsupported claims or exaggerations that most of the WV threads have, more often than not by people who have never played them and thus display their ignorance on the subject. 

 

I don't like arty because -

 

1.  It has no counter, I as a player playing the game in a tank, when facing arty, have for most of the game no way of doing anything to the arty until I kill a good proportion of the arty's team. That to me is not balanced, a player should not have any options to defeat an enemy that can attack him all game.

 

2. It's far too easy to play, has no challenge and thus allows poor players to influence games way above their skill level and knowledge, to me it is effectively an in-built cheat that allows players to bypass a lot of the game mechanics they don't have to use or learn but can still have a big impact on a game. For me the impact on the game should be about your skill level not your tank, so a class that allows very poor players to do 3-4k damage games is not a balanced or well designed one. At the same time it scales terribly with skill and being good at the game doesn't benefit it you that much with arty because it's other limitations and RNG will hold you back. 

 

3. It causes camping and passive play, especially when there are 2-3 in a game, which is linked to 1, as with no real counter a player's only option to avoid arty fire is to hide either unspotted or behind large hard cover, which then produces stale and campy gameplay, and generally a miserable experience for the other 26 players in the game. 

 

4. It allows one player to be focused and griefed at a level not possible in other tanks. 3 arty can shoot with impunity at one player all game, forcing the guy to either quit or die and basically have little chance to actually play the game and have fun, a class that can do that is not balanced IMO.

 

That above is not a 'whine', it is not me simply saying 'I don't like arty' or making any exaggerated claims, and it comes from someone that has played arty and knows what it can do. 

 

That is not what most WV threads are. 

 

If we apply those points to WVs, we can see that WVs have -

 

1. A counter. Their low view range gives plenty of counter play for high view range tanks, shooting them is clear counterplay, tanks with good gun handling and shell velocity are good counters to them, as are good positioning, armour and playing with the team.  Plenty of options to neutralise a WV with good smart play.

 

2. They are hard to play and as shown by the WR curves bad players do badly in them, skilled players can do well, they scale well with skill, they have a high risk/high reward playsyle almost the complete opposite to arty.

 

3. They don't cause camping despite the claims, they actually are able to break camps more easily than most tanks due to their speed and agility allowing them to cross gaps that often surround the OP camping spots that can lock down games.

 

4. Just like any tank in game, its hard with a tank that is able to get shot at to focus and grief a tank unless it is literally on its own. 

 

So comparisons with arty on all levels just don't work and the complaints I commonly see about WVs rarely have a justification or argument, they are more often than not just whines from bad players.

 

Most WV threads contain exaggerations, falsehoods and general ignorance from players that haven't played them, such as -

 

  • Wild claims about them bouncing shots, showing ignorance of how the game works in that if you hit tracks on any tank without an armour hitbox then you won't do damage.  
  • Claims they are impossible to hit when 1000s of players are quite capable of shooting them and players who play them know that dodging fire is not reliable and they have to played smartly.
  • Claims that they can just yolo through the team and kill everything, when this doesn't actually happen the majority of the time and when it does happen its down to the poorness of the players not the design of the vehicle. This is shown by players who try this yolo tactic getting terrible results (for example Claus Kellerman tried it, and to get 3/4 cherry picked replays of him yoloining and killing arty he had bot level WR and WN8 over about 70 games, to get 3/4 games where he pulled it off and even then he managed it basically where the enemy team was either terrible or just left a flank open)
  • Claims about the auto-aim, when it aims exactly like the standard auto-aim and is at times more fiddly to engage, which again shows the ignorance about how it actually works from people that haven't played them. 
  • Claims light tanks are useless against them when it's actually pretty easy to counter WVs in a light, yet most players continue to play the same way rush forward, try to fight on the move fights, die and then instead of reflecting on their play they whine on the forums.

 

Most of these issues are down to lack of knowledge and learn to play issues, that is IMO the route of the vast majority of WV complaints and those compaints come from in the main bad players and more often than not they start unconstructive whine threads about them. 

 

I have seen a few people make some decent and well thought out arguments about WVs, but funnily enough these people are usually decent at the game and they don't start threads on them.

 

The majority of threads on WVs are unconstructive whine threads started by bad players who have been beaten/outplayed by a WV and instead of self reflecting what they did wrong, they come to whine on the forum. 


Edited by tajj7, 17 October 2019 - 09:58 AM.


TungstenHitman #39 Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:59 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 32004 battles
  • 6,499
  • [B_M_G] B_M_G
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 October 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

All of this^

For the record, I neither love or loathe them - I just can't see why they're here.

 

Same, in scenarios where both me vs the car were on full hp I've never lost one engagement, comfortably beat them but that doesn't mean I don't find them annoying or feel their negative effects to gameplay when I notice I'm the only one on my team that's bloody doing anything and I've no support and the battle is trash PURELY because they all stopped like sheep once a car came across the hill and spotted them before they left the cap. Cliff is a prime example of this. A car pops up on the left of mid, and everyone hugs the rocks or stays on the low part of the maps which just SUCKS if you're on that team. Sure, I know they're noobs, but guess what, most players are and so most battles are terrible because noobs get scared when they're spotted and don't move. Light tanks will spot them maybe 5 seconds later if there had been no cars BUT the difference is, at that point these same noobs that would have stopped have now reached the point of no return and even though they are just as upset being spotted, they have no choice but to keep going forwards.... and suddenly we have a battle, thank god! 



pihip #40 Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:46 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 16337 battles
  • 1,334
  • Member since:
    01-11-2013
Disclaimer - I'm not a skilled armored car player and my stats show it, so take my opinion however you want.

I think the cars bring novelty to the game. We've had tracked vehicles only for years, but it's a fact armored cars had a role in war even though many refuse to acknowledge it (you know, the "these are not tanks they don't belong here" whining), so I don't see why they should not be an option.

Also, driving a car is way different than driving a tank - you can't turn while stationary, you have a lot of speed and two different drive modes (cruising and turbo), and creative and skilled players make the most from driving backwards.

The problems I can see with cars are the following: they're good at flushing out regular LTs because they can get to advanced positions faster, or do a yolo run and spot the whole enemy team and run away with it with more chances than a regular light; all the same, they can raid arta early in the match if they can sneak through the enemy lines; and of course, they're excellent for Frontline.

That said, WG made a mess because they wanted a class of active scouts, yet the more successful cars I see in matches are the ones who do passive spotting and provide support fire, mostly because we simply DO NOT have maps that encourage/allow active scouting to begin with, save for maybe a few exceptions (only Prokorovka and the now-removed Firey Salient come to mind).





Also tagged with Gameplay, Not a Rant, Pointless?

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users