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Why do I receive dmg when i get on top of another tank?


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murn123 #1 Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:12 PM

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I don't understan why in a ramming situation the tank that gets on top should receive any damage.

Bordhaw #2 Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:23 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 19 October 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

I don't understan why in a ramming situation the tank that gets on top should receive any damage.

 



Bora_BOOM #3 Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:35 PM

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You can damage your hull bottom hitting a rock, you can get shot or splashed by a shot on your hull bottom, so there is no reason why enemy turret (for instance) could not damage it as well.

Otherwise, tanks would more often hump on other thanks if they wouldnt take any damage doing it.

Anyhow, usually it is significantly less than the damage tank bellow receives.

It is working ok.



Stevies_Team #4 Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:44 PM

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Sat on someone yesterday and squished them in my su122-44

Don't think I got any damage



ThorgrimBrenadim #5 Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:49 PM

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Enemy commander is at fault..... that dasterdly dude sees his tank is being destroyed and wants to escape so keeps trying to open the commanders hatch dinging your tank every time :)

murn123 #6 Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:50 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 19 October 2019 - 11:35 AM, said:

You can damage your hull bottom hitting a rock, you can get shot or splashed by a shot on your hull bottom, so there is no reason why enemy turret (for instance) could not damage it as well.

Otherwise, tanks would more often hump on other thanks if they wouldnt take any damage doing it.

Anyhow, usually it is significantly less than the damage tank bellow receives.

It is working ok.

That makes no sense. You cannot damage yourself on a rock in any tank.

A moving turret example is already unrealistic, since the added weight of another tank would in reality completely stop all gears. And even if the turrets was somehow able to move, a slow mechanical movement cannot to the same kind of damage an explsove shell does. How is that comperable, the energy output just isnt there no way a moving turret does that. Also there are tanks in this game that have no turret.

The "it stops humping" reason is bad. I am on top, I have a tactical advantage and now you are going to punish me for it, because it would cause more people to do that ?? Why even play wargames at that point.

It does not cause significantly less damage. It is actually causing more damage than a normal ram, which is just crazy imo. 

 

There is absolutly no reason for me receiving any damage when I am on top and the damage that your receive right now is crazy high.

 

 

 

 


Edited by murn123, 19 October 2019 - 12:51 PM.


ChristOfTheAbyss #7 Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:01 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 19 October 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

You can damage your hull bottom hitting a rock, you can get shot or splashed by a shot on your hull bottom, so there is no reason why enemy turret (for instance) could not damage it as well.

Otherwise, tanks would more often hump on other thanks if they wouldnt take any damage doing it.

Anyhow, usually it is significantly less than the damage tank bellow receives.

It is working ok.

Its equal amount isnt it? Every single time for me it has been for sure.



Denton_0451 #8 Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:04 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 19 October 2019 - 12:50 PM, said:

That makes no sense. You cannot damage yourself on a rock in any tank.


Actually you can if you impact the rock with high enough speed.

To answer your original question this is how the ramming is simulated in WoT:
 

Block Quote

The collision creates an explosion at the point of impact similar to that of a high-explosive shell. The strength of the explosion, i.e. the damage potential, depends on the kinetic energy applied in the collision (0.5 * combined weight * relative speed^2), or in other words the combined weight of you and your target as well as your relative speed. That means that the heavier both you and your target are and the faster you collide, the stronger the explosion caused by the collision will be. However, that damage potential is distributed according to the weight of each of the two colliding vehicles relative to their combined weight (1 - individual weight / combined weight). For example, if you weigh 75 tons and you ram a target weighing 25 tons, only 25% of the explosion will affect you.

 

 



murn123 #9 Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:29 PM

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View PostDenton_0451, on 19 October 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:


Actually you can if you impact the rock with high enough speed.

To answer your original question this is how the ramming is simulated in WoT:
 

The collision creates an explosion at the point of impact similar to that of a high-explosive shell. The strength of the explosion, i.e. the damage potential, depends on the kinetic energy applied in the collision (0.5 * combined weight * relative speed^2), or in other words the combined weight of you and your target as well as your relative speed. That means that the heavier both you and your target are and the faster you collide, the stronger the explosion caused by the collision will be. However, that damage potential is distributed according to the weight of each of the two colliding vehicles relative to their combined weight (1 - individual weight / combined weight). For example, if you weigh 75 tons and you ram a target weighing 25 tons, only 25% of the explosion will affect you.

 

 

What are you talking about. You cannot damage yourself hitting a rock, or a house or any other object in this game. Damage to yourself by yourself is now only caused by fall damage.

 

Tank you for your describtion of ramming, but that is completely irrelevant. I am not really moving with any speed when i sit on top of another tank (our relative speed is 0 - also from physics perspective using relative speed is wrong, since speed is squared , while relative relation is just operation of addition - yeah wargaming does not understand basich physics concepts like kinetic energy, but I digress).

The mechanic that they are using is different, and it does not really matter because it is clearly wrong. a tank on top should not receive damage, since there is no reason for it - for tank on top it is like driving on top of any other surface-it does not matter, while tank on the bottom is getting crushed by 50 tons of steel or more that is overloading the weight that it was desinged for (in some cases i.e. jagdpanzerE100 driving on top of t-54 you are more than doubling the weight on t-54).

 

 


Bora_BOOM #10 Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:41 PM

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The game is arcade, not simulation. Also, who would know what would happen in RL if you would put one tank on top of the other. And it does not matter, cause being on top or bottom in that scenario happen like how many times? 1 in 500? 1000? 10000? And there are other unrealistic things like when you can do a barrel roll, land on tracks and continue driving taking no damage. The tracks even can stay on. Yeah right. And nobody complains when that happens. 

Game has more serious issues than this.


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 19 October 2019 - 01:46 PM.


murn123 #11 Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View PostBora_BOOM, on 19 October 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:

The game is arcade, not simulation. Also, who would know what would happen in RL if you would put one tank on top of the other. And it does not matter, cause being on top or bottom in that scenario happen like how many times? 1 in 500? 1000? 10000? Game has more serious issues than this. 

Well in reality the tank on the bottom would be immobelized due to damage to suspension, the turret would get pressed into the tank - getting stuck and most likely the whole firing mechanisem would stop working. Also armor on top of the tank is very weak (30mm) and i would not be suprised if the engine bay would get crushed like driving over a car. Basically the whole tank would be done for.

It happens way more often than 1 in 500 battles. More like 1 in 50. and there were plenty of opportunities for it but i did not take them due to this problem of taking away my HP.

 I do not understand the appeal to "there are bigger problems". All those bigger problems are already beign discussed on this forum. I doubt my little thread on this specific problem will deter people from posting in other threads.



Dorander #12 Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:03 PM

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Because sitting on top of a huge barrel can really hurt?

 

Jokes aside, I suspect it's due to wonky interaction between the hitboxes triggering the ramming mechanics, which means it isn't easy to fix without significantly impacting the hitboxes and/or the ramming mechanics.



Balc0ra #13 Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:26 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 19 October 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

 

What are you talking about. You cannot damage yourself hitting a rock, or a house or any other object in this game. Damage to yourself by yourself is now only caused by fall damage.

 

And that's what he initially said. Damage by a rock hitting your lower hull, as in "fall damage", as in when your hull contacts the rock first vs the tracks. And that's the point here I suspect, if you land on a tank and the tracks don't take the impact or are in contact with the tank below, but the hull did. You can take damage yourself, even with the new system as "falling damage" when you land. As I've seen several times since the new system was added with the mosh pits late game.

 

But with no replay or screens to show point of contact. Anything we say here is just speculation anyway to prove anything.



Rainbowkiss83 #14 Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:29 PM

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Because god forbids it unless it's for procreating another humanbeing.

Homer_J #15 Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:29 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 19 October 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

I don't understan why in a ramming situation the tank that gets on top should receive any damage.

 

Forget any reasons based on reality.  It was a gameplay decision to prevent tank stacking.



murn123 #16 Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:40 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 19 October 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

 

And that's what he initially said. Damage by a rock hitting your lower hull, as in "fall damage", as in when your hull contacts the rock first vs the tracks. And that's the point here I suspect, if you land on a tank and the tracks don't take the impact or are in contact with the tank below, but the hull did. You can take damage yourself, even with the new system as "falling damage" when you land. As I've seen several times since the new system was added with the mosh pits late game.

 

But with no replay or screens to show point of contact. Anything we say here is just speculation anyway to prove anything.

Okey but that falls under fall damage. I am talking about when you are already on the tank just sitting and waiting for him to die and your hitpoints are ticking away for no reason. Also I dont have to jump on a tank, there are plenty of options where driving on it is viable with no fall damage.

13:47 Added after 6 minute

View PostHomer_J, on 19 October 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

 

Forget any reasons based on reality.  It was a gameplay decision to prevent tank stacking.

I do not quite understand. Prevent tank stacking ?? There is no freindly damage anymore, so tank stacking is back in the game now ???

 

Or do you mean to say that the whole purpose was to prevent people from using this tactical advantage and what I am complaining about is actually done by design.



Bora_BOOM #17 Posted 19 October 2019 - 03:00 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 19 October 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

It happens way more often than 1 in 500 battles. More like 1 in 50. and there were plenty of opportunities for it but i did not take them due to this problem of taking away my HP.

 

There is your reason. This game is a shooter, not a Demolition Derby. 



Homer_J #18 Posted 19 October 2019 - 03:06 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 19 October 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

 

Or do you mean to say that the whole purpose was to prevent people from using this tactical advantage and what I am complaining about is actually done by design.

That's why it was put in originally.  To prevent team mates riding around on top of each other and gaining some tactical advantage or just being annoying.



murn123 #19 Posted 19 October 2019 - 03:16 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 19 October 2019 - 02:06 PM, said:

That's why it was put in originally.  To prevent team mates riding around on top of each other and gaining some tactical advantage or just being annoying.

But now with no friendly damage this is back in the game. 

View PostBora_BOOM, on 19 October 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

 

There is your reason. This game is a shooter, not a Demolition Derby. 

They actively promot ramming damage and are using wrong simplification that makes ramming way too dangerous than it should have been. (see my other thread).

I believe Homer_J is right about why this mechanic was introduced, it just is funny now becuse they removed friendly damage making this whole thing usless and just detrimental to the game when fighting enemies.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #20 Posted 19 October 2019 - 03:22 PM

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View Postmurn123, on 19 October 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

What are you talking about. You cannot damage yourself hitting a rock, or a house or any other object in this game. Damage to yourself by yourself is now only caused by fall damage.

 

 

Yes, you can. I've driven tanks on flat ground into rocks at speed before now and suffered damage as a result. Just requires your hull front to contact the rock at just the right (wrong) angle.






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