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Tier 10 Toxicity

Tier 10 Toxicity Tier X

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RetroCh1cken #1 Posted 26 October 2019 - 04:47 PM

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So after I've recently gotten my first tier 10 tank I've seen the chat have been (a lot) more toxic. Almost every match is now at least someone complaining about their team before the battle have even started.

Is it really always like this for tier 10 matches? I've heard it's more competitive, but this? I've never been insulted from a random ever by my stats mid-game before I started tier 10 matches, now I've already gotten a few of, either messages after the match have already ended or mid-game where they complain about my stats. Most are surprisingly only insulting/complaining at the start of the game though when the match is still counting down.

The funny thing is, it's never about how I play in the moment, it's always about my stats. 

 

Edit: Seems like a lot of people have misunderstood part of my comment. For one, I'm almost always getting insulted before the match even starts by my stats, not by how I play/perform in battle, second of all, I'm not trolling nor am I not trying to win. I help as much as I can to my abilities like listening to my allies and even sometimes tanking shots to save teammates.
Also, if you are about to look at my stats right now and make fun of my overall stats, please do look at my recent instead, over half of my battles were fought when I was 5-7 years younger and didn't even know how to go into snipe mode or barely knew English.


Edited by RetroCh1cken, 28 October 2019 - 10:26 PM.


RetroCh1cken #2 Posted 26 October 2019 - 04:59 PM

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View PostIntruderFI, on 26 October 2019 - 03:49 PM, said:

Go back to tier 2 then.

 

219 WN8

 

No wonder...

Exactly what I'm talking about, so people who have spent a long time grinding to big tanks aren't allowed to use them just cause they aren't that skilled at the game, I've been waiting to get my hands on a tier 10 tank for almost 7 years, am I not allowed to play because such a stupid reason? 
I'm especially in a tougher spot here cause my stats are actually worse than what they should because I played this when I was younger. Dunno if you knew but kids aren't often good at video games so you can guess what happened when a big majority of my battles are by a kid who plays the game for fun.

 



Long_Range_Sniper #3 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:00 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 03:47 PM, said:

So after I've recently gotten my first tier 10 tank I've seen the chat have been (a lot) more toxic. Almost every match is now at least someone complaining about their team before the battle have even started.

Is it really always like this for tier 10 matches? I've heard it's more competitive, but this? I've never been insulted from a random ever by my stats mid-game before I started tier 10 matches, now I've already gotten a few of, either messages after the match have already ended or mid-game where they complain about my stats.

The funny thing is, it's never about how I play in the moment, it's always about my stats. 

 

If you're referring to your Maus play than you've won 10/18 games and have 1249 Wn8 in that tank.

 

However, you are highly unlikely to know what you're doing based on your record to date. So look at it from a different perspective. You've chosen to join a team of 14 other players and you're asking them to have some thought for you and your enjoyment (whatever that is).

 

Given you're highly likely to influence your team to a loss when you click battle (in general), do you honestly think about those next 14 players who are going to have you on your team?

 

If the honest answer is no, then why should you expect respect in return?

 

If however you want to minimise toxic comments at tier X, then there are two ways.

 

1. Disable chat.

2. Progress through the tiers in a progressive way, such that you learn the game at each tier and only progress when you are stable in how you perform. Doing the personal missions is a good start.

 

Option one is the easiest, but I doubt it will stop the problem.



LincolnTank #4 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:03 PM

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My chat is permanently turned off, and will never be turned back on. Online games are toxic environments where warriors lie behind every keyboard.

IntruderFI #5 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:04 PM

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*edited*


Edited by YoseiGunshi, 26 October 2019 - 06:53 PM.
Be respectful


duck_sick #6 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:05 PM

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http://wotreplays.eu/site/5068896
LOOK at this please.
3 people that dont like toxicity in a platoon. lowkey they dont have a clue about tier 10 games, decides to drown. of course all of them using xvm and all of them below 1000 wn8, didn't like the setup of the teams, as we would say- our team bots, no need to play. 
we really need to adress this issue, like don't let them escape that easy. like what you expect? being a bob, full team of unicums every battle or what? 
drowning is the most toxic thing in wot at the moment, really makes the game for others way less enjoyable 

RetroCh1cken #7 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:17 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 26 October 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:

 

If you're referring to your Maus play than you've won 10/18 games and have 1249 Wn8 in that tank.

 

However, you are highly unlikely to know what you're doing based on your record to date. So look at it from a different perspective. You've chosen to join a team of 14 other players and you're asking them to have some thought for you and your enjoyment (whatever that is).

 

Given you're highly likely to influence your team to a loss when you click battle (in general), do you honestly think about those next 14 players who are going to have you on your team?

 

If the honest answer is no, then why should you expect respect in return?

 

If however you want to minimise toxic comments at tier X, then there are two ways.

 

1. Disable chat.

2. Progress through the tiers in a progressive way, such that you learn the game at each tier and only progress when you are stable in how you perform. Doing the personal missions is a good start.

 

Option one is the easiest, but I doubt it will stop the problem.

I understand it from one perspective but the bad player themselves should not be blamed for wanting to play a tank they have spent ages grinding towards, for one the mm system should be blamed, blame the system itself who can't make the teams balanced.

Not the players who get punished for wanting to play a game for fun. No player should be forced to not progress to bigger tanks cause of their skill.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:18 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

Exactly what I'm talking about, so people who have spent a long time grinding to big tanks aren't allowed to use them just cause they aren't that skilled at the game, I've been waiting to get my hands on a tier 10 tank for almost 7 years, am I not allowed to play because such a stupid reason? 
I'm especially in a tougher spot here cause my stats are actually worse than what they should because I played this when I was younger. Dunno if you knew but kids aren't often good at video games so you can guess what happened when a big majority of my battles are by a kid who plays the game for fun.

 


You are totally allowed to play whatever you like, whenever you want to and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. However you are going to have to accept that firstly you are not a great player and statistically speaking you are a burden to your team and that secondly that really pushes some peoples buttons. It doesn't make it right because if they would STFU and concern themselves with what they're doing and not what you're doing they'd win more anyway. 

 

The simple solution is don't care about the whiners. If someone is offering you advice then consider it and maybe act on it, but otherwise ignore the chat. Use the mute button if they really need muzzling.



duck_sick #9 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:19 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 05:17 PM, said:

I understand it from one perspective but the bad player themselves should not be blamed for wanting to play a tank they have spent ages grinding towards, for one the mm system should be blamed, blame the system itself who can't make the teams balanced.

Not the players who get punished for wanting to play a game for fun. No player should be forced to not progress to bigger tanks cause of their skill.

 


Edited by duck_sick, 26 October 2019 - 05:28 PM.


RetroCh1cken #10 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:20 PM

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View PostIntruderFI, on 26 October 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

*edited*

I actually have an explanation, a good one. When I was younger I loved this tank and didn't really know how to play the game so I just did what I thought would be fun, a lot of the time that was using the E 25 as a light tank, on top of that I let my mom play the game and she fell in love with this tank, even when she was clearly not good at the game.

Since then I've almost never used this tank cause I simply don't enjoy it.



Long_Range_Sniper #11 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:23 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 04:17 PM, said:

I understand it from one perspective but the bad player themselves should not be blamed for wanting to play a tank they have spent ages grinding towards, for one the mm system should be blamed, blame the system itself who can't make the teams balanced.

Not the players who get punished for wanting to play a game for fun. No player should be forced to not progress to bigger tanks cause of their skill.

 

The matchmaker system balances tanks, not people.

 

If a player chooses a tank to play, then they're voluntarily entering a matchmaker system that will match that tank with the choices of 14 other players.

 

The objective of each game is to win by killing all tanks or capping (whatever other fun you take from the game).

 

If you significantly impact on the chances of winning each game by your choice of tank, then you should expect feedback from the other 14 players. They are also playing for "fun", and when you discount their fun at the expense of your "fun" why should you not expect feedback?

 

If you can drive, do you think it's "fun" when someone sits in the outside lane of a motorway driving 20kph under the speed limit and their response is "I'm perfectly entitled to do this, as I'm not breaking the speed limit".

 

The fact is the game is a community game, and you can play any tank you want in any way you want. But why should you expect not to get feedback when you may play in such a way that is hugely detrimental to your team?

 

Just the same way as the police would pull over that motorist and inform them that whilst their speed is fine, their manner of driving is actually inconsiderate.



RetroCh1cken #12 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:24 PM

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View Postduck_sick, on 26 October 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:

how can you have fun constantly being owned by enemies? like being outplayed all the time? where is fun in that? 
what balance are you referring to? like bobs against bobs and unicums vs unicums? where would be fun in that?

For one, I love tanks, especially the ww2 ones and I prefer the hp system rather than the one-hit-kill system that in war thunder. Secondly, while I maybe have a bunch of bad games I love it when I manage to get that "epic" game where I somehow manage to carry the team to a close victory, believe it or not, it has happened a few times.

 

Also, games can be balanced in more than unicum vs unicum, it can be balanced in a way so there is an equal amount of bad, and good players in both teams.

 



ChristOfTheAbyss #13 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:25 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 05:17 PM, said:

I understand it from one perspective but the bad player themselves should not be blamed for wanting to play a tank they have spent ages grinding towards, for one the mm system should be blamed, blame the system itself who can't make the teams balanced.

Not the players who get punished for wanting to play a game for fun. No player should be forced to not progress to bigger tanks cause of their skill.

 

No player should be forced to play with someone, who by just being in your team, increases the chance of your loss. That's what you are doing in every game. How is that not toxic thing to do for those 14 teammates of yours?



Long_Range_Sniper #14 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:27 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

Secondly, while I maybe have a bunch of bad games I love it when I manage to get that "epic" game where I somehow manage to carry the team to a close victory, believe it or not, it has happened a few times.

 

If you're aware of the law of statistics then I would suggest that you are unlikely to carry your team in this scenario, and that other factors that are part of the game may have a greater influence.

 

If you want to be sure that you've carried your team, then look back down through the tech tree grind you've done, and if there are a line of tanks with winrates >50%, you can be pretty sure you carried your team.



jack_timber #15 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:28 PM

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Well RetroCh1cken be like me, and as Nuclear_Slug has alluded to, play what you want when you want and how you want.

I couldn't give two monkeys what others say, think or do I just like the game.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #16 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:30 PM

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View PostChristOfTheAbyss, on 26 October 2019 - 05:25 PM, said:

 

No player should be forced to play with someone, who by just being in your team, increases the chance of your loss. That's what you are doing in every game. How is that not toxic thing to do for those 14 teammates of yours?


It's an online game for all. So long as they're doing their best to win and not actively attempting to ruin the game for their team simply being terrible at it doesn't remove their right to participate.



RetroCh1cken #17 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:33 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 26 October 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

 

The matchmaker system balances tanks, not people.

 

If a player chooses a tank to play, then they're voluntarily entering a matchmaker system that will match that tank with the choices of 14 other players.

 

The objective of each game is to win by killing all tanks or capping (whatever other fun you take from the game).

 

If you significantly impact on the chances of winning each game by your choice of tank, then you should expect feedback from the other 14 players. They are also playing for "fun", and when you discount their fun at the expense of your "fun" why should you not expect feedback?

 

If you can drive, do you think it's "fun" when someone sits in the outside lane of a motorway driving 20kph under the speed limit and their response is "I'm perfectly entitled to do this, as I'm not breaking the speed limit".

 

The fact is the game is a community game, and you can play any tank you want in any way you want. But why should you expect not to get feedback when you may play in such a way that is hugely detrimental to your team?

 

Just the same way as the police would pull over that motorist and inform them that whilst their speed is fine, their manner of driving is actually inconsiderate.

The system can be tweaked, if it sees that there are bad players and got good tanks, it can simply wait a bit more until another player with a good tank shows up and is equally "bad" and match them against each other. The mm is flawed and is still feels like a lot of people here think, just because you are a bad player doesn't mean you can impact a match in a good way, I've managed to carry matches, believe it or not 

 


Long_Range_Sniper #18 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:36 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 26 October 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:


It's an online game for all. So long as they're doing their best to win and not actively attempting to ruin the game for their team simply being terrible at it doesn't remove their right to participate.

 

I fully agree. But if they click battle in the full knowledge that they're not exactly going to help their team (although they may try their best), then they should be reflective enough to accept feedback (or turn chat off).

 

It's a team game, and so if you actually don't care about the other 14 players in any way, then why should someone care about what they back back as "feedback".

 

It's the abrogation of responsibility to their 14 fellow players, with demanding a responsible response from those 14 players is where I draw the line. 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't not care about the other 14 players, and then demand they care about you.

 

View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 04:33 PM, said:

The system can be tweaked, if it sees that there are bad players and got good tanks, it can simply wait a bit more until another player with a good tank shows up and is equally "bad" and match them against each other. The mm is flawed and is still feels like a lot of people here think, just because you are a bad player doesn't mean you can impact a match in a good way, I've managed to carry matches, believe it or not 

 

This is what is called "skill based matchmaking" and it would be a total failure. I could go into infinite detail but there are two easy points.

 

1. It would give everyone a 50% winrate over time, as 45% bad players are matched with 45% bad players. Also, what do you do with the 60% player? Who do you match them up with?

2. How to you share XP out fairly. Why should the basecamping 45% player who has no idea what to do or how to win get the same XP for winning a game, when the 60% player has fought like mad.

 

Your solution is what I outlined earlier,

 

Turn chat off, or put some effort into learning the game in progressive stages. Like doing the personal campaign missions.


Edited by Long_Range_Sniper, 26 October 2019 - 05:37 PM.


Solstad1069 #19 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:36 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 26 October 2019 - 04:47 PM, said:

So after I've recently gotten my first tier 10 tank I've seen the chat have been (a lot) more toxic. Almost every match is now at least someone complaining about their team before the battle have even started.

Is it really always like this for tier 10 matches? I've heard it's more competitive, but this? I've never been insulted from a random ever by my stats mid-game before I started tier 10 matches, now I've already gotten a few of, either messages after the match have already ended or mid-game where they complain about my stats.

The funny thing is, it's never about how I play in the moment, it's always about my stats. 

 

Just enjoy the game Retro and play whatever tier you want.
With your positive attitude im sure you gonna improve massively.
 

I would suggest that you grind many lines up to tier 6 it does not take much time and the chance for you to carry mid tiers is much higher than tier 10.
Go for a few medium lines and learn the maps and grind crews. December will be a great WOT month.



RetroCh1cken #20 Posted 26 October 2019 - 05:40 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 26 October 2019 - 04:27 PM, said:

 

If you're aware of the law of statistics then I would suggest that you are unlikely to carry your team in this scenario, and that other factors that are part of the game may have a greater influence.

 

If you want to be sure that you've carried your team, then look back down through the tech tree grind you've done, and if there are a line of tanks with winrates >50%, you can be pretty sure you carried your team.

You're telling me cause just on average I lose, doesn't mean I can have one or two matches were I managed to get lucky and make an impact?
https://gyazo.com/96fe9692434fe1aad3edf8afb3e587c5

Look at this^ and let me give you some context about what happened, we were losing, the base was getting capped and the rest of my team were too far away to stop the cap. I managed to kill tanks on the way to the cap circle, get to the cap circle and kill both of the tanks capping. This is just also about what happened when we were loosing I managed to make quite the impact before it went downhill too. While yes, I might be bad on average, I can still carry a match if I'm lucky in the right scenario.







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