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Help me to improve my map knowledge & awareness

Help Map awareness

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splash_time #1 Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:36 PM

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Hi there!

Greetings.

As you see from the title, sometimes I play with my tanks, and I literaly have no idea where to go and play in some maps, so I don't like to ruin other players battle... 

And in case you mention this, yes, I do watch replays when ever I'm free to learn, but I can't find much... because each battle is different than the other, and when I try to apply what I learned, I just get overmatched by LTs or whatever. 

 

So is there any way to learn the most effective spots for each class/type? Anything like a video or advices? 

 

All feedback is welcome and appreciated. 



kaneloon #2 Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:27 PM

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Pretty hard to answer you because we all have different gameplay.

But good players mostly spam the best same meta tanks over and over.

I don't think you can master a tank in all maps by playing it once in a while.



Alukat123 #3 Posted 29 October 2019 - 12:12 AM

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Mannerheimer-Line, if you have south-west spawn, don't go to the water, you'll never be there before the enemies. Simply because your way is twice as long as it is for the north-east team and the northern team even has also the advantage of being able to go downhill while the way you're driving is a plain.

Too many people make the mistake of wasting themselves by trying to go to the water, when they spawn in the south.


Edited by Alukat123, 29 October 2019 - 12:18 AM.


mateyflip #4 Posted 29 October 2019 - 04:25 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 28 October 2019 - 10:27 PM, said:

Pretty hard to answer you because we all have different gameplay.

But good players mostly spam the best same meta tanks over and over.

I don't think you can master a tank in all maps by playing it once in a while.

 

I agree,  find a tank type you like ie TD, heavy etc and play those only. 

 

You will work out the strengths of them and weaknesses in all maps. Also see where another players go and how they position themselves.

 

I personally love TD's mainly because of their play style but I cant side scrap in any tank to save my life!



Negativvv #5 Posted 29 October 2019 - 04:37 AM

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There is a map mod for Aslains that shows you normal TD camp spots and LT spotting locations. Obviously don't stick to them religiously but they're a good starting point.

Gruff_ #6 Posted 29 October 2019 - 06:50 AM

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View Postsplash_time, on 28 October 2019 - 07:36 PM, said:

So is there any way to learn the most effective spots for each class/type? Anything like a video or advices? 

 

Arty gives you a top down channel to watch where people scurry to.  Are there any maps in particular you have trouble with as you are a good player with12k games moe's etc?



XxKuzkina_MatxX #7 Posted 29 October 2019 - 07:19 AM

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Start with wotguru.com. Excellent map guides there with the best positions/flanks for different tanks and classes. Then there are long streams for a particular tank. These are even better because as you mentioned each battle got its own deployment and distribution of tanks. But i wouldn't say each battle is different. Map design, tanks' characteristics and team composition force a limited number of combinations no matter how creative people can be.

 

The idea is when you watch a battle, you need to analyze it to know what happened. How did a certain player get from point A to point B and what difference did that make? How did he get there safely? Where did he do most of the damage? What did the mini map show that prompted a certain move?

 

You got: good positions, lanes of fire, timing and decision making.



splash_time #8 Posted 29 October 2019 - 07:19 AM

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Most of all I play HTs & TDs, I'm also trying to get my first T10 medium tank (progetto 65) but not now, because I'm using pantera for FL, thus Standard is researched. 

Anyway, I don't like T10 LTs and artys (I hate them) but I use only two for the new set of campaign missions.


Edited by splash_time, 29 October 2019 - 07:22 AM.


fwhaatpiraat #9 Posted 29 October 2019 - 07:33 AM

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If you are playing somewhere on the map, there will be a moment you go elsewhere, right? For each decision you make, think about if you were in time with doing that or if you should have done it earlier. Examples: if you play a scout on Malinovka field, at some moment the easy assistance dries up and you have to go elsewhere to help the team. If you push one side of Mountain pass, you often have to turn around to defend the base. Having control over the hill of Tundra is a strong asset, however often you have to leave it to farm damage at the other side of the map or to defend base. "I should have left this spot 30 seconds ago".

What really helps is the minimap. Your eyes have to be glued to it. It is not just a part of the GUI, it tells you if you have to push, hold or defend and tells you where to go. The battle happens on the minimap, not on the rest of the screen.



RSA_TriHard_7 #10 Posted 29 October 2019 - 10:14 AM

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I have learned mostly from watching Twitch and Youtube(theres a few replay channels that feature 10k dmg battles etc.)First thing i check is enemy tank lineup and then i can imagine to myself where they will go on the map that im loading in.Most maps if you dont know where to go you can follow example if your in a heavy you follow other heavies.Sometimes i wont go to a certain position because i know the 3 artys on enemy team will shoot me cause its very open so i will locate to a different position.Also if you press + on your keyboard you make your minimap larger so that you can be aware at all times what is happening on the battlefield like if a flank has been overrun or you can see where tanks were last spotted.Most important learn from your mistakes ask yourself for example why did i not retreat when i saw the flank is overrun.Why did i yolo in and i lost my team the battle cause i did not evaluate the situation correctly.Just a few things hope i can help :)

splash_time #11 Posted 29 October 2019 - 10:58 AM

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Thanks for the positive feedback guys, I really appreciate it. :)

Flicka #12 Posted 29 October 2019 - 11:10 AM

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Streams, replays on YouTube and just more practice.

Minimap is the easy part of situational awareness, the actual 50m radius awareness is something you just have to make yourself do it as a reflex, some sort of muscle memory.

It kinda opposite of tunnel vision, you just need to get that moment of clarity, and observe what is around you and elsewhere on the map, and then just try to get a sense what the enemy team will do and act on that.

Like I said, its down to more gameplay, and you will find yourself if similar situations quite often.

One thing you can try is while watching a really good streamer act as if you were there, in their shoes.

Check their minimap, and try to predict what they would do and enemies would do, and then see what happens.

And try to understand why they do something they do, if they do not explain their actions.



HassenderZerhacker #13 Posted 29 October 2019 - 12:18 PM

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I was looking for a similar resource.

Watching endless streams and videos is not for me.

 

Playing with more experienced friends usually yields a few tips, especially on what to do with lights, which spotting routes work in the early game.



Mimos_A #14 Posted 29 October 2019 - 12:35 PM

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The most important thing is to stay aware of crossfires and minimizing the amount of incoming fire while being constantly able to fire. Which is something that you can't take as a static given, it constantly changes depending on your team, the enemy team and the flow of the battle.

 

The first step is to always take your time to look at the team line-ups at the start of the battle: what tanks are in my team and where are they likely to go, and the same for the enemy. Then think of where your tank can be most effective both in terms of supporting your own team and fighting the enemy team. If the enemy team has way more good hull down tanks for example, don't try to fight them in a situation where they can use that advantage. Also pay attention to other sides of the map, it's great if you're trading well from your current position, but if the other flank is collapsing fast, you need to start taking action well in advance, either push out your opposition as quickly as possible or go back to support or set up crossfires.

 

Another important thing is to keep watching the minimap and your surroundings. Go out of sniper mode after every shot and look at the situation around you. What are your allies doing, what's the enemy doing, is there an opportunity to set up a crossfire or is the enemy about to get a crossfire on you. This is something you can't simply start doing, it's a habit you need to start developing and over time you'll be doing it without even noticing you're doing it. It's pretty easy to tunnelvision on your current engagement, and, for example, push forward to finish and opponent only to find yourself in a terrible position. Try to think of the consequences of actions, if I do X, then what are Y and Z going to be, not just focus on "I'm going to kill this enemy".

 

There's always more to learn, but this and the other tips should get you started :)


Edited by Mimos_A, 29 October 2019 - 12:38 PM.


splash_time #15 Posted 29 October 2019 - 12:44 PM

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View PostMimos_A, on 29 October 2019 - 03:05 PM, said:

The most important thing is to stay aware of crossfires and minimizing the amount of incoming fire while being constantly able to fire. Which is something that you can't take as a static given, it constantly changes depending on your team, the enemy team and the flow of the battle.

 

The first step is to always take your time to look at the team line-ups at the start of the battle: what tanks are in my team and where are they likely to go, and the same for the enemy. Then think of where your tank can be most effective both in terms of supporting your own team and fighting the enemy team. If the enemy team has way more good hull down tanks for example, don't try to fight them in a situation where they can use that advantage. Also pay attention to other sides of the map, it's great if you're trading well from your current position, but if the other flank is collapsing fast, you need to start taking action well in advance, either push out your opposition as quickly as possible or go back to support or set up crossfires.

 

Another important thing is to keep watching the minimap and your surroundings. Go out of sniper mode after every shot and look at the situation around you. What are your allies doing, what's the enemy doing, is there an opportunity to set up a crossfire or is the enemy about to get a crossfire on you. This is something you can't simply start doing, it's a habit you need to start developing and over time you'll be doing it without even noticing you're doing it. It's pretty easy to tunnelvision on your current engagement, and, for example, push forward to finish and opponent only to find yourself in a terrible position. Try to think of the consequences of actions, if I do X, then what are Y and Z going to be, not just focus on "I'm going to kill this enemy".

 

There's always more to learn, but this and the other tips should get you started :)

 

Thanks for these tips! I've never thought like this about my battles/tanks! :D

 

I really do have some good games where the difference between me and the second player (by xp) is something like 300-400 base xp. But I still wanna learn more. 

Thanks everybody!  



1ucky #16 Posted 29 October 2019 - 01:04 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 29 October 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

If you are playing somewhere on the map, there will be a moment you go elsewhere, right? For each decision you make, think about if you were in time with doing that or if you should have done it earlier. Examples: if you play a scout on Malinovka field, at some moment the easy assistance dries up and you have to go elsewhere to help the team. If you push one side of Mountain pass, you often have to turn around to defend the base. Having control over the hill of Tundra is a strong asset, however often you have to leave it to farm damage at the other side of the map or to defend base. "I should have left this spot 30 seconds ago".

What really helps is the minimap. Your eyes have to be glued to it. It is not just a part of the GUI, it tells you if you have to push, hold or defend and tells you where to go. The battle happens on the minimap, not on the rest of the screen.
 

 

I think you're basically saying the truth, but the part with the minimap is a bit confusing, maybe because it's slightly incomplete truth. 

 

I'd say the battle happens in time and in virtual 3D-space, and the minimap represents both of those only partially. A very tiny part of both, that is. Therefore the map can be a useful crutch, but only if you know how to use it. For example, knowing how long different tanks take to get from A to B, or having a proper picture of terrain elevations, inclines, lines of sight, natural camouflage or other 3D peculiarities, or even ground resistances, not only helps but is essential in order to make good use of the minimap.

 

In other words, the minimap helps you best if you've already learned a lot about the map in it's actual 3D form.

 

Anyway, I guess driving around different parts of all the maps yourself is the only way to get there, aside from watching replays.

 

Edit/TLDR:

There's prerequisites each of us has to meet in order for the map to tell us anything. It's not telling anything particularly useful on it's own. We need experience with in-game timing and space in order to properly combine the two.


Edited by 1ucky, 29 October 2019 - 01:13 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #17 Posted 29 October 2019 - 09:54 PM

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View Post1ucky, on 29 October 2019 - 01:04 PM, said:

 

I think you're basically saying the truth, but the part with the minimap is a bit confusing, maybe because it's slightly incomplete truth. 

 

I'd say the battle happens in time and in virtual 3D-space, and the minimap represents both of those only partially. A very tiny part of both, that is. Therefore the map can be a useful crutch, but only if you know how to use it. For example, knowing how long different tanks take to get from A to B, or having a proper picture of terrain elevations, inclines, lines of sight, natural camouflage or other 3D peculiarities, or even ground resistances, not only helps but is essential in order to make good use of the minimap.

 

In other words, the minimap helps you best if you've already learned a lot about the map in it's actual 3D form.

 

Anyway, I guess driving around different parts of all the maps yourself is the only way to get there, aside from watching replays.

 

Edit/TLDR:

There's prerequisites each of us has to meet in order for the map to tell us anything. It's not telling anything particularly useful on it's own. We need experience with in-game timing and space in order to properly combine the two.

Indeed, good points. Ofcourse, you cannot play with the minimap exclusively. My point was that the minimap is the most important part of the GUI and a player should look *a lot* at it. In many other games the minimap isn't that important. Basically all my moves (attacking, defending, holding, etc.) are based on the minimap.

 

Often when I play with less-skilled players, they say things like: "that tank was there all of a sudden" or "omg they are all in our base", such things are really easy to foresee when looking regularly at the minimap and act accordingly.



splash_time #18 Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:49 PM

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http://wotreplays.eu/site/5073267#abbey-splash_time-kranvagn

 

can you guys tell me what was my mistake?







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