Jump to content


Prevents camping? I think not(Artillery)

arty artillery camping gameplay discussion

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20 replies to this topic

Poll: Artillery poll (47 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Does Artillery prevent camping?

  1. It ENCOURAGES camping. (30 votes [43.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 43.48%

  2. It does not prevent camping (13 votes [18.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.84%

  3. It somewhat prevents camping (12 votes [17.39%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  4. It prevents camping (14 votes [20.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.29%

Vote Hide poll

blackrapter #1 Posted 02 November 2019 - 04:35 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 12005 battles
  • 11
  • Member since:
    06-08-2011

Well, I'll get right to the point on my opinion.

 

I think artillery encourages camping more than prevents it, and that anyone who says it prevents it has to be meming in most cases, though if anyone has a genuine argument I'm open to hear it. As for why I think it doesn't prevent camping, I'll give my reasons as following:
- Artillery will only be capable of targetting you while you are spotted, thus if you camp at the back and aren't spotted it can't do anything to prevent you camping.

- Those spotted are often those on the frontline, and slower vehicles in some cases with less accurate guns(KV-3 for example) These are easiest to hit for artillery, and most often the ones targettinged(encourages camping, even for tanks that should not.)
- Often there may be no artillery cover in wide areas of a map, allowing no real counter play on some maps, which does not help matters in the slightest, as it encourages you to either not be spotted(by camping).
 

One can argue it's more of a support class now, with the stun mechanics and all, and that it "isn't meant to do damage". I've had numerous experiences that don't really reflect that. Especially in heavy tanks. They may not be the one shotting monsters of old, but I distinctly think artillery is still capable of doing very high damage over the course of a battle(and enough to ruin one persons day if two or more target it), even to super heavy tanks(maybe I just need a super heavy spall liner? :trollface: )

Regardless, while I am admittedly quite annoyed by artillery and at this moment in time am maybe a little too miffed to put a full argument together, I'd like to hear what other users feel towards it and their reasoning on if they think otherwise. Do note I am not asking for old artillery back, and admittedly I am not too sure of what can be done to make artillery less frustrating to deal with while altering the class itself. Though I do think some maps may need a look on getting a little bit more artillery cover at least, particularly wide open maps.



mjs_89 #2 Posted 02 November 2019 - 04:48 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 8898 battles
  • 932
  • [95137] 95137
  • Member since:
    08-16-2017
That poll is so biased that for a moment I thought it was russian...

Dava_117 #3 Posted 02 November 2019 - 04:55 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 22759 battles
  • 5,172
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

In before the thread lock.

 

But I agree that arty can't prevent camping due to the fact that can shoot only to spotted enemies.



The_Naa #4 Posted 02 November 2019 - 05:01 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8973 battles
  • 1,557
  • [QSF-C] QSF-C
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017
arty makes aggressive gameplay difficult in my experience. especially in open maps where they have clear shot on you most of the time.

Isharial #5 Posted 02 November 2019 - 05:32 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 23642 battles
  • 2,644
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-19-2015

im going to be one of those people will simply hate for saying this, but it *does* prevent camping, and it also doesn't.

 

it doesn't prevent unspotted TD's hugging redline, but it does prevent Super Conqs (and other similar tanks) from going hulldown and staying in that position for the entire game (isn't that also the meaning of camping?), so there are 2 sides to the coin... 

 

IMHO, artillery is in a bit of a problematic position. it doesn't do what people think it should do: pick off stuff no one else can see, but if it did can you imagine the s**t, sorry, I mean, "rage" posting, but if it is played well in its current form, it can do the job is supposed to do, which is in the end, the same as all other classes and that's damage and winning games.

 

I am grateful to have an artillery player on my team that knows what they can do, and likewise I hate those that play artillery and all other classes as if it is a john deere tractor in farming simulator...

 

it does however, as The_Naa said above, make aggressive gameplay difficult, but, isn't that the risk v reward? hell any bob can drive up a hill and stick an impenetrable turret over the top and sit there the entire game... most lower calibre HE is worthless against such so you've got a few gold spamming guys that might pen you or artillery.. (and we all know the state of the players, not all of them know what they have to do)

so whats left? HE's soon to be put out to pasture (atleast as far as ive last read, which was a few weeks ago so, maybe its changed) so if that's still as I last saw, that will be worthless too regardless of calibre.. 

 

uhh… "flank" it...……….. :facepalm:

 

if that HE "rebalance" goes through like it was, well, ill be even more grateful to have a decent arty on my team

 

 

 

 

 

 



LincolnTank #6 Posted 02 November 2019 - 05:44 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 10737 battles
  • 450
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    11-17-2015
I’d like to see changing dynamic maps that encourage players to think rather than just go through the old routines every game and hide in the same old places

Only_Slightly_Bent #7 Posted 02 November 2019 - 05:46 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 26841 battles
  • 848
  • [O_S_B] O_S_B
  • Member since:
    11-04-2010

View PostIsharial, on 02 November 2019 - 04:32 PM, said:

 

... many words...

Spot on.

Plus, something that is often ignored when this topic comes up is that people camp, a lot, even when there's no arty in a battle, which renders the argument that it doesn't prevent camping fairly moot.



Dava_117 #8 Posted 02 November 2019 - 06:25 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 22759 battles
  • 5,172
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View PostIsharial, on 02 November 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

im going to be one of those people will simply hate for saying this, but it *does* prevent camping, and it also doesn't.

 

it doesn't prevent unspotted TD's hugging redline, but it does prevent Super Conqs (and other similar tanks) from going hulldown and staying in that position for the entire game (isn't that also the meaning of camping?), so there are 2 sides to the coin... 

 

IMHO, artillery is in a bit of a problematic position. it doesn't do what people think it should do: pick off stuff no one else can see, but if it did can you imagine the s**t, sorry, I mean, "rage" posting, but if it is played well in its current form, it can do the job is supposed to do, which is in the end, the same as all other classes and that's damage and winning games.

 

I am grateful to have an artillery player on my team that knows what they can do, and likewise I hate those that play artillery and all other classes as if it is a john deere tractor in farming simulator...

 

it does however, as The_Naa said above, make aggressive gameplay difficult, but, isn't that the risk v reward? hell any bob can drive up a hill and stick an impenetrable turret over the top and sit there the entire game... most lower calibre HE is worthless against such so you've got a few gold spamming guys that might pen you or artillery.. (and we all know the state of the players, not all of them know what they have to do)

so whats left? HE's soon to be put out to pasture (atleast as far as ive last read, which was a few weeks ago so, maybe its changed) so if that's still as I last saw, that will be worthless too regardless of calibre.. 

 

uhh… "flank" it...……….. :facepalm:

 

if that HE "rebalance" goes through like it was, well, ill be even more grateful to have a decent arty on my team

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but there are plenty of guns that can dig out hulldown tanks with HE in game. And if the SB stand as the last iteration, it will be even more reliable making arty class redundant in game.

Arty is just an annoying class that allows for 0 risk high reward gameplay, that force people who play actively to seek for positions where artillery can't hit them instead of focussing on the enemy. 

I would far more like it getting remove, reworked as derp TDs or changed with shells that remove cammo or spot enemys coupled with a further nerf on their HE alpha.



unhappy_bunny #9 Posted 02 November 2019 - 06:28 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 19923 battles
  • 3,610
  • [-OC-] -OC-
  • Member since:
    08-01-2012

Define camping. I think sometimes people use the word "camping" when they actually mean "cowering in fear behind rocks or buildings", or "strategically positioned in order to make the best use of a vehicle". 

 

Played right, arty can punish that nasty TD  or sniping heavy, sitting double-bushed, if they take blind shots at likely positions. 

Arty cannot always punish the cowering tank, but then  why do some players sit cowering in cover while many do not. Some seemed to have learnt how to deal with arty in a battle, know where and when they are in danger, and they get on with the job while others are too scared to move. 

 

 



splash_time #10 Posted 02 November 2019 - 06:44 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 13192 battles
  • 672
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    02-20-2018

I really don't understand why arty even exist in WoT?....

SPGs were invented to destroy a small town or enemy base or camp, where they rest, fix and etc!

 

They were never invented to shoot 1 tank!.....

And it's absolutely unfair!  

Arty fire and damage a lot of tanks without even taking a single damage!

 

Now imagine yourself playing in an open field map with three artys, who'll dare to go forward?! It doesn't matter what tank you have, even if you drive 268 v4 or a T110E3! 

 

I don't know what to say more. I hope you got my point. 

The most possible thing that I hate after losing a winning battle is artys.



Alukat123 #11 Posted 02 November 2019 - 07:14 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 17034 battles
  • 1,423
  • Member since:
    03-21-2016

In tier 7 games with 3 tier 5 arties it forces you to camp, simply because with top-tier heavy you just get perma-tracked by those tier 5 buggers..

 

At higher tiers, depending on the arty, it may encourage camping, because once you get spotted or are out in the open you're gonna take a big hit from arty for sure. Good were the old times where arty could oneshot but also miss entirely.


Edited by Alukat123, 02 November 2019 - 07:14 PM.


Homer_J #12 Posted 02 November 2019 - 07:21 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 32802 battles
  • 35,715
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View Postblackrapter, on 02 November 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

I think artillery encourages camping more than prevents it, and that anyone who says it prevents it has to be meming in most cases,

 

First question.  Who said it does?

 

Second question, why can I vote for all options?

 



Spurtung #13 Posted 02 November 2019 - 09:14 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 74404 battles
  • 6,584
  • [WG_PT] WG_PT
  • Member since:
    07-05-2013
I like voting on all options.

vasilinhorulezz #14 Posted 02 November 2019 - 09:38 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 28251 battles
  • 2,039
  • Member since:
    09-26-2014

The problem with arty is light tanks, artillery should be able to shoot the tanks that prevent a push, like a camping TD behind bushes, punishing anyone who will try and move forward, but light tanks, and especially in high tiers, where everything can get more than max view range, and pretty easily in fact, and also the removal of bushes in a lot of maps, made light tanks unable to do aggressive spotting runs or get advanced positions, so artillery, which had a natural enemy (LTs of course), now does not have a counter anymore, although I would argue that with the introduction of wheelies, that has somewhat changed in some maps, still artillery is a class that is completely safe and doesn't run any risks, so this leads to the toxic arta game-play we experience now.

 

All in all, artillery is safe, doesn't need to take risks, doesn't need decision making, and barely needs any sort of skill to be effective. Light tanks, can't spot the campers, so arta will focus at what is available, anyone that's trying to be in the front lines, and focus them down, for the whole game, and thus the hate begins. Still, some tanks, newer ones mostly are way to strong, when in their comfort zones, and of course most of the time arta is the only counter to them, so yea, it kind of prevents camping in that sense (what can you do against a SConq camping a ridge and pew-pew all opposition without being in any real danger? You need to call the sky punishment). But mostly it doesn't, because everyone, in fear of the sky pigs, will hug a rock/mountain/building, trying to avoid getting hit by them, and this is the way arta does actually encourage camping.

 

ps.

you can for all options :unsure::hiding:

who else did it!?



Bordhaw #15 Posted 03 November 2019 - 10:48 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 15106 battles
  • 5,071
  • Member since:
    01-29-2017

View Postblackrapter, on 02 November 2019 - 03:35 PM, said:

Well, I'll get right to the point on my opinion.

 

I think artillery encourages camping more than prevents it, and that anyone who says it prevents it has to be meming in most cases, though if anyone has a genuine argument I'm open to hear it. As for why I think it doesn't prevent camping, I'll give my reasons as following:
- Artillery will only be capable of targetting you while you are spotted, thus if you camp at the back and aren't spotted it can't do anything to prevent you camping.

- Those spotted are often those on the frontline, and slower vehicles in some cases with less accurate guns(KV-3 for example) These are easiest to hit for artillery, and most often the ones targettinged(encourages camping, even for tanks that should not.)
- Often there may be no artillery cover in wide areas of a map, allowing no real counter play on some maps, which does not help matters in the slightest, as it encourages you to either not be spotted(by camping).
 

One can argue it's more of a support class now, with the stun mechanics and all, and that it "isn't meant to do damage". I've had numerous experiences that don't really reflect that. Especially in heavy tanks. They may not be the one shotting monsters of old, but I distinctly think artillery is still capable of doing very high damage over the course of a battle(and enough to ruin one persons day if two or more target it), even to super heavy tanks(maybe I just need a super heavy spall liner? :trollface: )

Regardless, while I am admittedly quite annoyed by artillery and at this moment in time am maybe a little too miffed to put a full argument together, I'd like to hear what other users feel towards it and their reasoning on if they think otherwise. Do note I am not asking for old artillery back, and admittedly I am not too sure of what can be done to make artillery less frustrating to deal with while altering the class itself. Though I do think some maps may need a look on getting a little bit more artillery cover at least, particularly wide open maps.

 

1. This is nearly 2020 not 2017

2. Stop playing heavy tanks

3. Don't like camping then go play wheeled vehicles

4. Nobody else cares..



Erwin_Von_Braun #16 Posted 03 November 2019 - 10:51 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 42992 battles
  • 6,344
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

View PostLincolnTank, on 02 November 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

I’d like to see changing dynamic maps that encourage players to think rather than just go through the old routines every game and hide in the same old places

Interesting.

Or just basically bigger maps.

15 vs 15 on some of those Grand Battle maps could be quite fun.



azakow #17 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:02 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 83049 battles
  • 5,015
  • Member since:
    05-23-2011

View Postblackrapter, on 02 November 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

Well, I'll get right to the point on my opinion.

 

I think artillery encourages camping more than prevents it, and that anyone who says it prevents it has to be meming in most cases, though if anyone has a genuine argument I'm open to hear it.

Do not spam and have read here: http://forum.worldof...cussion-thread/

jack_timber #18 Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:14 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 40927 battles
  • 3,317
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    07-26-2014

Well the weekend is here and so is another arty whine, yes also voted all four options.

In arties defence it can take out the red arty and blind fire at known spotting, sniping positions....

Just imagine if your arty took out the opposing arty....



Chuwt #19 Posted 03 November 2019 - 03:30 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 40333 battles
  • 137
  • Member since:
    06-14-2012

"Camping" is a term used much too much in WoT, with a clearly pejorative meaning to it, but:

To some people, camping is sitting about, doing nothing, seeing nothing and with no possibility of firing at anything. It is reasonable to be annoyed about players who do this.

To others, it is a criticism of players who adopt a sensible firing position, covering a choke point or obvious enemy root , but are not jet engaged, usually tank destroyers or support tanks, but even balls out heavies (often quite reasonably) do this..


Quite a lot of players use the term to mean friends who are actually engaging the enemy, often with effect, but are not as far forward as themselves.

A few use it to mean anybody who has not pressed the W key through the bottom of their keyboards.

Complaining about anything but the first one shows a lack of understanding of realities of the game.

It is not the function of artillery to "prevent" any of these categories. However, it does allow certain types of tanks to be in the game, and it is often often the people who use tanks which are largely invulnerable to non artillery who do most moaning. Without artillery to occasionally give such monsters a hard time, they would have to be nerfed almost out of existence.


 



Balc0ra #20 Posted 03 November 2019 - 03:56 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 73496 battles
  • 20,928
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012
On Prokhorovka if there are 3 arties. There is always HT's on F5 getting smacked and firing on hill. If there are no arties. Then everyone camps the 1 lane and hill. And F5 is empty. And on other maps you can get more passive lights as "they have nothing to spot for to rush out early". Some get too aggressive, others just feel there is no point taking risks when the eye above can't help. So depending on map. It can go either way in terms of what arty don't or does do for the flow of the battle.





Also tagged with arty, artillery, camping, gameplay, discussion

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users