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The engineers - Support class

Support class Engineers

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SinKillsYourSoul #1 Posted 10 November 2019 - 12:56 AM

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Hi all,

Introduction.
I feel that World of Tanks made a bold move introducing wheeled vehicles. Despite the frustrations now and then I like the variation it added to the game. Recent changes made me wonder where World of Tanks could grow in the future, show something new or make the game more dynamic. This made me wonder, what if World of Tanks introduced a new engineers support class.

Engineers support class.
Basically they provide battlefield support in the role of technicians who perform battlefield repairs.

The engineer support class can roll on wheeled vehicles, half tracks and tracked vehicles. This would add new types of vehicles to the game. Probably a new tank line to be researched. In general the engineer support class is a non-combatant element which supports the others instead of fighting themselves. Half tracks would be ideal since they are mobile, have good grip on soft terrain, don't carry guns and are lightly armored.

What they do is pull up next to a damaged vehicle and slowly repair them. For example a 5 second timer shows and like 10% of hitpoints are restored as long as both vehicles stand still, less than 20 meters from each other. This is what I call a repair block. You can do this multiple times after each other, every time you receive 10% hitpoints, so you can achieve a full repair doing this multiple times. Multiple times 5 seconds for every 10% repair block, results in longer overall repair times.

How is this balanced?
If during a repair block of 5 seconds one of the vehicles moves, or is damaged, the repair is discontinued and the 5 second timer starts over again. This means, the enemy can interrupt your repair by attacking you. Of course, the repair vehicles are kind of fragile vehicles so you don't want to lose them. Also they are a non combatant element so they can't fire on the enemy themselves. This means you should hide a bit and not stand idle on the frontline or both will be killed. Perhaps you think this will result in hiding vehicles, but the idea is opposite. When people know they can get repairs, they will take more risks.

 

How does this add fun to the game:

Imagine a brawler, a heavy tank or medium with some armor which gets some serious hits in the first 5 minutes of the game. This now means your game is over, you play hide and seek in the back, snipe and try to do some damage untill the game is over. This means, you in the brawler or medium have to play the waiting game until the end. However, what if you can roll towards a repair vehicle (or he can roll towards you), get healed in between 5 seconds, up to 1.5 minute, depending on how severe your damage is. For example: 9 repair blocks of 5 seconds of 10% repair each. This makes 90% healing in total. Make sure no-body interrupts your repairs. After that, you have hitpoints again and you now can brawl again, play on the frontline or play aggressive like you wanted.

 

Why would you like to play a support class engineer vehicle?

Well because some people prefer something different. Perhaps after some intense fights you want to relax a bit. Healing your team mates is a bit more easy and relaxing. Also, you would make your team mates really happy. So it is a rewarding role. :-)  Of course speaking in technical terms, you get rewarded with xp and credits for every hitpoint you repair back to your own team... or like Dava_117 suggested, the vehicles you repaired are now giving you assist damage for the role they play. :-) Occasionally you might spot something but you are lightly armored and without a gun... So your team does the heavy duty on the front line, while you repair damaged vehicles a bit more to the back :-)

 

Sidenotes:
- I know this is a raw draft, but mainly this is meant as an idea to inspire you for what could be.
- I understand not everybody would like to play this class, but perhaps you could see the added value of the element to the team.
- Support vehicles are supporting, meaning you need others. That's why support vehicles should have a maximum per team.

- Since we already have the limit of 3 supporting vehicles (which are only artillery at this moment) I suggest that artillery and repair vehicles will fill the supporting limit together. Meaning a combined maximum of 3 vehicles. In some cases this would mean you have less artillery because the support slots are filled with repair vehicles already; The new Engineers support class!

 

 


 


Edited by SinKillsYourSoul, 10 November 2019 - 01:28 AM.


Dava_117 #2 Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:13 AM

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I like the idea. Having a tank that can heal my HT after the brawl so I can push further on the TD line sounds good. 

 

I would say that they need some kind of "ammo" to spend, call it "Steel plates" or "Spare parts", that is limited so you need to use it on valuable targets and paying attention to not waste it on a tank in the open that can die in no time or on an slow HT in the clear out phase when a paper but mobile med may be more useful. Also, more than on HP healed, I would base the income on the damage and assist done by tanks thanks to your extra HP. So repair working as extra HP that refill the healtpool and are consumed only after the main HP ends (of course you need to heal a tank before it blows up), giving some of the exp and credit as assist to the repair vehicle that healed you.



kaneloon #3 Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:30 AM

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And can they repair themselves ?

You can as well have the healing places like in Front Line, it would be less a danger than a repair tank that could block you.

And it would probably make battles too long.



SinKillsYourSoul #4 Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:38 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 10 November 2019 - 12:30 AM, said:

1. it would be less a danger than a repair tank that could block you.

2. it would make battles too long


Response to 1:
A repair vehicle would be as mentioned a light vehicle. He has no gun and no armor so he operates in the back.
IF by any chance he ends up in front and his wreck blocks your path...: Its a light vehicle so you can push the wreck aside or use the wreck as cover. ;-) 

 
Response to 2:

A max of 3 support vehicles including arty results in generally 1 or 2 repair vehicles per team.
The vehicles cant be everywhere at the same time. Repairing also takes time. Also they can get killed themselves... A brawler which has its hitpoints again will play aggressively again, instead of hiding in the back. So repair vehicles create more dynamic and mobile teams. Improving the overall experience and resulting in same game length I think. 


Edited by SinKillsYourSoul, 10 November 2019 - 01:47 AM.


kaneloon #5 Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:48 AM

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Ok maybe you have an idea there, even if it feels like a healer in other games like lol or wow.

 

But they should also replenish ammos or give boosts or something more than just repair.



Isharial #6 Posted 10 November 2019 - 02:36 AM

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View PostSinKillsYourSoul, on 10 November 2019 - 12:56 AM, said:

Hi all,

Introduction.
I feel that World of Tanks made a bold move introducing wheeled vehicles. Despite the frustrations now and then I like the variation it added to the game. Recent changes made me wonder where World of Tanks could grow in the future, show something new or make the game more dynamic. This made me wonder, what if World of Tanks introduced a new engineers support class.

Engineers support class.
Basically they provide battlefield support in the role of technicians who perform battlefield repairs.

The engineer support class can roll on wheeled vehicles, half tracks and tracked vehicles. This would add new types of vehicles to the game. Probably a new tank line to be researched. In general the engineer support class is a non-combatant element which supports the others instead of fighting themselves. Half tracks would be ideal since they are mobile, have good grip on soft terrain, don't carry guns and are lightly armored.

What they do is pull up next to a damaged vehicle and slowly repair them. For example a 5 second timer shows and like 10% of hitpoints are restored as long as both vehicles stand still, less than 20 meters from each other. This is what I call a repair block. You can do this multiple times after each other, every time you receive 10% hitpoints, so you can achieve a full repair doing this multiple times. Multiple times 5 seconds for every 10% repair block, results in longer overall repair times.

How is this balanced?
If during a repair block of 5 seconds one of the vehicles moves, or is damaged, the repair is discontinued and the 5 second timer starts over again. This means, the enemy can interrupt your repair by attacking you. Of course, the repair vehicles are kind of fragile vehicles so you don't want to lose them. Also they are a non combatant element so they can't fire on the enemy themselves. This means you should hide a bit and not stand idle on the frontline or both will be killed. Perhaps you think this will result in hiding vehicles, but the idea is opposite. When people know they can get repairs, they will take more risks.

 

How does this add fun to the game:

Imagine a brawler, a heavy tank or medium with some armor which gets some serious hits in the first 5 minutes of the game. This now means your game is over, you play hide and seek in the back, snipe and try to do some damage untill the game is over. This means, you in the brawler or medium have to play the waiting game until the end. However, what if you can roll towards a repair vehicle (or he can roll towards you), get healed in between 5 seconds, up to 1.5 minute, depending on how severe your damage is. For example: 9 repair blocks of 5 seconds of 10% repair each. This makes 90% healing in total. Make sure no-body interrupts your repairs. After that, you have hitpoints again and you now can brawl again, play on the frontline or play aggressive like you wanted.

 

Why would you like to play a support class engineer vehicle?

Well because some people prefer something different. Perhaps after some intense fights you want to relax a bit. Healing your team mates is a bit more easy and relaxing. Also, you would make your team mates really happy. So it is a rewarding role. :-)  Of course speaking in technical terms, you get rewarded with xp and credits for every hitpoint you repair back to your own team... or like Dava_117 suggested, the vehicles you repaired are now giving you assist damage for the role they play. :-) Occasionally you might spot something but you are lightly armored and without a gun... So your team does the heavy duty on the front line, while you repair damaged vehicles a bit more to the back :-)

 

Sidenotes:
- I know this is a raw draft, but mainly this is meant as an idea to inspire you for what could be.
- I understand not everybody would like to play this class, but perhaps you could see the added value of the element to the team.
- Support vehicles are supporting, meaning you need others. That's why support vehicles should have a maximum per team.

- Since we already have the limit of 3 supporting vehicles (which are only artillery at this moment) I suggest that artillery and repair vehicles will fill the supporting limit together. Meaning a combined maximum of 3 vehicles. In some cases this would mean you have less artillery because the support slots are filled with repair vehicles already; The new Engineers support class!

 

 


 


I like the idea. gives the game a bit more a change, and that's a good thing (sometimes)

 

now.. you said about engineers tanks? well, some of them had close range mortars, such as the Churchill AVRE. perhaps those could be part of such a line? (though a large mortar such as that would be... questionable to balance)

 

I think dava's "upgrade" works quite well, and I can see a draw for people to want to play these machines. 

 

 

Would the hitpoints and the regenerative rate be scaled to tier? or scaled to the vehicle being healed? 

 

IE, would a T8 engineer heal a T10 tank at the same rate as a T10 engineer? or, would the rate need to be made bigger? longer? for the tiers as you progress? 

so a T10 healer would be 5 seconds for that 10% but a T8 healer would be 8 seconds for 10%? or a flat rate of 5 seconds across the board?

 

a flat rate could work, but if the tank has no guns (or other features) what would entice someone to advance the line? the previous tank already does the same ( and more xp for your heals if your a T8 in a T10 game all the time! )

 

 

what about the spotting range? we know that wheeled vehicles are pretty bad as is, and that arty has virtually none, so how would an engineer wheeled vehicle or half track follow that trend without making them blinder than the SU-85?



Spurtung #7 Posted 10 November 2019 - 02:57 AM

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View PostIsharial, on 10 November 2019 - 01:36 AM, said:

 

Would the hitpoints and the regenerative rate be scaled to tier? or scaled to the vehicle being healed? 

 

IE, would a T8 engineer heal a T10 tank at the same rate as a T10 engineer? or, would the rate need to be made bigger? longer? for the tiers as you progress? 

so a T10 healer would be 5 seconds for that 10% but a T8 healer would be 8 seconds for 10%? or a flat rate of 5 seconds across the board?

 

a flat rate could work, but if the tank has no guns (or other features) what would entice someone to advance the line? the previous tank already does the same ( and more xp for your heals if your a T8 in a T10 game all the time! )

 

You could kinda scale it in a dynamic way:

- when "healing" same tier tanks you could have those 10% per 5s across all tiers

-   "             "      higher   "      "      "       "       decrease that rate, either by lowering the % or increasing the time, say, -3% or +3s per tier difference

-   "             "      lower    "      "      "       "        increase    "     "        "        "   upping    "    "   "   lowering    "      "       "   +3% or -3s    "     "       "



Dava_117 #8 Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:41 AM

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View PostIsharial, on 10 November 2019 - 02:36 AM, said:

a flat rate could work, but if the tank has no guns (or other features) what would entice someone to advance the line? the previous tank already does the same ( and more xp for your heals if your a T8 in a T10 game all the time! )

 

 

what about the spotting range? we know that wheeled vehicles are pretty bad as is, and that arty has virtually none, so how would an engineer wheeled vehicle or half track follow that trend without making them blinder than the SU-85?

 

Those are indeed good question. I would say that a solution like Spurtung one may help. Or you may set the repair as a set number of HP instead of a percentage, growing with the tier.

Mobility can grow too, helping to reach valuable position faster.

 

About view range, its an hard question. IMO they should have HP pool between artys and WV, with good (but not amazing) cammo and maybe view range midway between blind TDs and WV. But is this really the right way. Working as spotters while healing may be helpful or totally broken, so those would require tests IMO...



SinKillsYourSoul #9 Posted 10 November 2019 - 03:24 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 November 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

 

Those are indeed good question. I would say that a solution like Spurtung one may help. Or you may set the repair as a set number of HP instead of a percentage, growing with the tier.

Mobility can grow too, helping to reach valuable position faster.

 

About view range, its an hard question. IMO they should have HP pool between artys and WV, with good (but not amazing) cammo and maybe view range midway between blind TDs and WV. But is this really the right way. Working as spotters while healing may be helpful or totally broken, so those would require tests IMO...


I think when the repair vehicle is standing still, it should have good cammo. Especially since it has no gun and no armor. So during repairs, camouflage is its only defence.

 

So when you tier up you can have:
- more repair hitpoints per repair (because 10% is more hitpoints on higher tier)

- have a faster vehicle

- better cammo

- cooler looking vehicle (perhaps you can go from wheeled to halftrack to full tracked vehicle)

 

About view range: it would be nice if you could install telescope on it for when you stand still. Because during repairs you stand still and it would be nice to see the enemy coming. Since you don't have a gun you could decide to run and continue the repairs later on a safer moment. Or hide closer to the big tank, behind a nearby house or in a bush or something. However, you are supposed to operate behind the frontline, catching up with friendly tanks that need repairs. So in general you don't need to spot for yourself.

 


Edited by SinKillsYourSoul, 10 November 2019 - 03:29 PM.


Cheezix #10 Posted 10 November 2019 - 03:30 PM

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Nice idea! It's basically the role of a medic in first person shooters or RPG games. But still some important questions arise.

 

I wonder how large the impact will be on the current meta. I fear it may cause some troubles such as:
 

  • More passive gameplay instead of active. Players will focus on fighting only in safer locations from where their tanks can retreat back to the Engineer for repairs
  • If enemy Engineer is much better then your own it might result in more toxicity in the chat. Maybe too much pressure on only a few players per team?
  • Just as artillery is usually the last class to die, Engineers will usually be the last vehicles alive. But since they can't defend themselves and only have the ability to run away it will result in trying to catch the Engineer at the end of each battle. Maybe this will get annoying very soon, although capping is always an option.
  • Players constantly calling the Engineer for repairs, because many tanks lose hp on different locations at the same time. Many shouting in chat "ENGINEER COME TO ME FAST!!!!!"

 

Despite these points definitely an interesting idea worthy of trying out on the Sandbox server!


Edited by Cheezix, 10 November 2019 - 03:32 PM.


Spurtung #11 Posted 10 November 2019 - 03:31 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 10 November 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

Or you may set the repair as a set number of HP instead of a percentage, growing with the tier.

 

The advantage I see in making the output directly by "HP per second" instead of "percentage of a particular tank's HP per second" is when healing groups.

I mean, make it follow a mechanic crew logic: if you allocate the whole team to fixing one vehicle, they should work faster than when fixing two vehicles, but each "mechanic" will still do the same amount of work in the end.

So the fixing tank can actually be right behind a pushing line of HTs healing them all, but not a whole lot on each. You can use the same logic as that "inspire" thingy from FL combined with sharing XP when two tanks spot the same target, but reversed.



shikaka9 #12 Posted 10 November 2019 - 04:22 PM

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dunno, battles are too fast ... maps too small.. lot to change to make this happen

Rainbowkiss83 #13 Posted 10 November 2019 - 04:26 PM

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Plz don't
I mean i know it was fun to have reparis in codename panzers but this would just make wot into an mmropg  with healers, tanks and dps
Why not go play LoL or WoW for pvp then?
And you would see something like 4 platoons per battle wth 1 healer per platoon assisting only their comrades



Humansland #14 Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:55 AM

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Although, the idea sounds solid, I have to agree with Rainbowkiss83 above. This 'healing thing' has a place in frontline but definitely not in randoms/CW/SH etc. With the current maps, trajectory if the game, this would be a disaster.

chainreact0r #15 Posted 11 November 2019 - 09:09 AM

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Healing in randoms would basically destroy the core gameplay, which is doing as few mistakes as possible while punishing as many enemy mistakes as you can.

Outplaying someone, taking away all his hitpoints then bouncing last shot due to RNG is already annoying. But with healing he might run away and come back with potentially full hp. I know this can work both ways, but it's pretty unfair when it happens.

It would also skewer DPG stats, since it would artificially increase the hp pool at an uneven rate depending on the map and the skill of the engineers.

In frontline, static healing stations worked fine cause the objective was to destroy/defend objectives, not to kill all enemy tanks.







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