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Light Tanks don't have a place in the game anymore (be it wheeled, be it tracked).

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splash_time #21 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:56 PM

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I play my B C 12t from time to time, I like auto loaders, and it has nice camo since I'm using BIAs and camo net on it.

I liked the T7 more, I may buy the T9 as well since everyone said it's a great LT tier for tier.



Negativvv #22 Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM

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LTs are fine, their main issue is the idiot player base.

 

An LT who plays conservatively gets so much abuse from the spawn campers who want you to risk everything to "spot". But the yolo LTs get no abuse?! What the idiots actually want you to do is suicide so they can farm whoever shoots at you.

 

If I ever play LTs seriously I will disable all team chat...



Inappropriate_noob #23 Posted 11 November 2019 - 01:08 AM

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View PostNegativvv, on 11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM, said:

LTs are fine, their main issue is the idiot player base.

 

An LT who plays conservatively gets so much abuse from the spawn campers who want you to risk everything to "spot". But the yolo LTs get no abuse?! What the idiots actually want you to do is suicide so they can farm whoever shoots at you.

 

If I ever play LTs seriously I will disable all team chat...

Best idea if you want a tactical game, but I'm not so sure about the OP's statement entirely,downinthe low tiers,(1 2 and 3) Lt's mainly fight Lt's with a few mediums sprinkled in,just waht is nottolove about the Panzer 1c?



NipplesTheClown #24 Posted 11 November 2019 - 02:22 AM

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I have to say that I've been enjoying my lights. Sure, you'll get into games with WVs  but stay in a bush and keep them lit. Most of the time your team will be far too happy to oblige their stupidity.  The only time you have a problem is when they light you but it happens less than you think because it's a huge risk; and if they do, they usually die for their efforts.  It's just the top tiered EBR's that are the biggest problems anyway. THOSE are completely broken in the right hands.  

TankkiPoju #25 Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:38 AM

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View PostRicky_Rolls, on 10 November 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

Yea lights are garbage, that's why there are between 2 and 4 them each game.

 

Also no one likes to play arty and everyone hates it, yet magically every game has 2-3 arties :hiding:


Edited by TankkiPoju, 11 November 2019 - 07:40 AM.


Ricky_Rolls #26 Posted 11 November 2019 - 09:41 AM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 11 November 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

 

Also no one likes to play arty and everyone hates it, yet magically every game has 2-3 arties :hiding:

 

Strange, isn't it?



tajj7 #27 Posted 11 November 2019 - 09:56 AM

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I'd imagine a lot of the light play is similar to arty, people are still chugging their way through the first set of PMs and thus need to play some lights, plus there are a quite a few missions in the 2nd set of PMs that are clearly intended for lights. 

 

Plus we have an experienced playerbase, lots of players have ground out lots of lines so many players probably are just grinding light tank lines as they are the ones they have left. 

 

Best lights in the game are the premiums, Type 64, T-50-2 (reward but still counts), 13-57. HWK-30, LT-432, EBR 75, and then probably there are not that many tech tree lights that are that good, EBR 105 maybe, but even then its not like a 430U you can just dominate games with, most games probably far easier and more effective to play solid tier 10 med like an Obj. 140 or something.

 

Probably strongest tech tree light in the game is the T71 DA, it's like a tier 7 Bat Chat with better gun handling and unlike the Bat Chat has clear view range and camo advantages over most of the things it faces.

 

As Cobra says sweetspot is tier 6 and 7, but even then they are not super strong.

 

Meta just doesn't suit lights, too many corridor maps and city maps, and then on the more open maps, they are full of OP base camping ledges where the HD bushes give so much camo that any light will be outspotted by even heavy tanks camping there, which means they are pretty useless on half the maps because there is no real spotting or room to flank/get in behind, and then on the maps where this is possible, they get wrecked by OP base camping spots infested with TDs so can't do their jobs there.

 

Which leaves lights left as this sort of 'wait for your team to do something' class and then hope the game goes on long enough that your mobility and view range matters, but the enemies aren't just hard camping in OP spots.  Which is basically sniping early to mid game, then trying to find lone enemies to beat that aren't hard camping. 

 

But of course then WG handicap their guns for no real good reason, giving them bad pen drop off and poor accuracy so they can't even do the sniping bit well.

 

The whole balance of them, especially at tiers 8+ is a just a complete mess, and you often feel playing them that the whole game is designed around making your tank bad, and I am pretty sure it is intentional, most WOTs players can't handle being outplayed by lights, so lights must therefore be crap. 



Cobra6 #28 Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:45 AM

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View PostlnfernaI, on 10 November 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

which means, all my best games on TX LTs must have been down to pure luck.


A good player will do (relatively) well in any tank compared to an average player :) However, the accuracy and penetration drop-off of Tier X lights is artificially worse then it should be.

 

View Posttajj7, on 11 November 2019 - 08:56 AM, said:

 

As Cobra says sweetspot is tier 6 and 7, but even then they are not super strong.

 

 

Well, gun-handling and penetration wise, T7 lights are pretty on-par with mediums. Or at least, don't feel handicapped in the penetration department much.

 

And because at those tiers, camp and especially view range still matter quite a lot, it gives lights a much more defined place in the matches. Not everyone including heavies are at view range cap like in the higher tiers which severely gimps your camo.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 11 November 2019 - 10:48 AM.


UserZer00 #29 Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:22 AM

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As someone who prefers light tanks, and started out grinding the LT lines over other tanks, it took me a long long time to get use to their mechanics, but I do think they have a place in the game, if only for the following:

- They teach (eventually) how to use and fire from camo to get free damage on the enemy

- How to break the "just one more shot" habit and disengage, move on and find another target

- How to use the minimap to try and spot weakness in the enemy lines and exploit them to get behind or spot artillery

- How to not charge head 1st into artillery once you've managed to spot them

 

Now is this the only type of tank that can teach these lessons?  No, of course not. 

 

However, the fact that they (usually) have good speed and keep their camo when moving does mean they have a chance of getting out of stupid situations that they may have gotten themselves into.  (Even if their lack of armor does mean that if they do get hit it's usually game over)

 

I'm doing a lot better with my mediums these days and (I think) it's mostly up to the things I have learned while playing the light tanks.

 

I'd rather see them adjust the view ranges on the tank lines to make it so the lights are the clear leaders in this category and to give them back some of their previous speed and mobility, but I don't expect either of those things to happen.

 

Do they still have their place in the game?  Sure, as much as any other tank type. 

 

Are they the best at what they are suppose to do?  That's up to the player, his crews, equipment and the enemy he faces.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #30 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:12 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 11 November 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

 

Also no one likes to play arty and everyone hates it, yet magically every game has 2-3 arties :hiding:

 

They're all just "doing missions", honest! 



24doom24 #31 Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:55 PM

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EBR 105 is more than relevant. WV only tank class that can successfully drive through the entire enemy team and kill all the arta and leave alive in the first few minutes of the game. Doesn't matter what hits you you still travel at 95km/h, untrackable, wheels absorb absolutely everything, godly gun handling with powerful HE and it's not hard to reach 445m view range in it without binocs. Also inexplicably has the best camo of all the tier 10 lights, even more than the Manticore lmao. 

 

WVs definitely have a huge impact in this game. The fact they drive around so fast and can spot the whole team in the first 30 seconds really speeds up the matches, contributing to those 15-2 5 minute stomps. Unfortunately WVs aren't treated any different to tracked LTs so you get games where there are EBR platoons vs Rhms and Manticores. Pretty easy to see whose team is disadvantaged here. 

 

Nobody has fun when an enemy EBR rips through their spawn in the first 30 seconds and they end up getting blown to pieces by the enemy TDs, except the EBR driver. Then again, any tank that is considered broken/ OP is usually fun to play. 

 


Edited by 24doom24, 11 November 2019 - 08:56 PM.


VarzA #32 Posted 11 November 2019 - 09:38 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 November 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

Judging by the number of lights in each battle, maybe people like the class despite being statistically inferior. Someone has to fulfill that role. And if the average number of TDs per battle is also high, what does that say about the game play of both classes? Knowing that apart from a few extreme cases neither class win too much.

 

Keep in mind many ppl play them because they need them for campaigns 2.0.

The only lights you can skip for those are the chinese (russian is better), american (british are better at pure scouting at t10) and one of the french (13 105 for most ppl).

German lights cannot be skipped, and most opt for the russian + british + french.



WindSplitter1 #33 Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:00 PM

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View PostNoobySkooby, on 11 November 2019 - 12:08 AM, said:

View PostNegativvv, on 11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM, said:

LTs are fine, their main issue is the idiot player base.

 

An LT who plays conservatively gets so much abuse from the spawn campers who want you to risk everything to "spot". But the yolo LTs get no abuse?! What the idiots actually want you to do is suicide so they can farm whoever shoots at you.

 

If I ever play LTs seriously I will disable all team chat...

Best idea if you want a tactical game, but I'm not so sure about the OP's statement entirely,downinthe low tiers,(1 2 and 3) Lt's mainly fight Lt's with a few mediums sprinkled in,just waht is nottolove about the Panzer 1c?

 

I'm no expert but early Tiers is where the "tank" as a vehicle begins to emerge with little variations. I don't think you'll be doing much spotting in whatever maps you have for Tier I and II. On Tier III those differences are more noticeable but once more, I don't think a lotta people will remain there for too long.

 

Pz. I C is a good vehicle. Nothing against it. It's the vehicles further down the line that are a disappointment.

 

 

With regards to what others said about the EBR 105, keep in mind that tremendous speed does come with a cost in other departments on the so-called tank triangle.

I've been powergrinding the Hotchkiss recently and I can assure you even HTs do not break a sweat hitting me from 200m+



XxKuzkina_MatxX #34 Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:29 PM

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View PostVarzA, on 12 November 2019 - 12:38 AM, said:

Keep in mind many ppl play them because they need them for campaigns 2.0.

The only lights you can skip for those are the chinese (russian is better), american (british are better at pure scouting at t10) and one of the french (13 105 for most ppl).

German lights cannot be skipped, and most opt for the russian + british + french.

 

Campaigns always existed and the 2nd front campaign is nation, not class, specific. Sure you need a light tank for some missions but you also need all classes. Those doesn't explain the recent increase of LTs per team.

 

Spoiler

 

I don't remember seeing anything like this in recent years apart from a patch day or some new light line. This is something WG talked about too in a recent Q&A: tweaking the MM so it can be smarter and these cases don't happen.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 11 November 2019 - 11:08 PM.


thetoughcookie #35 Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:05 PM

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Other light tanks are useless now when there is EBR. WG is not even playing their own game as you can see when think how balanced EBR is. It makes me wonder, why would I buy lootboxes on this year.

VarzA #36 Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:35 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 11 November 2019 - 11:00 PM, said:

View PostNoobySkooby, on 11 November 2019 - 12:08 AM, said:

View PostNegativvv, on 11 November 2019 - 12:12 AM, said:

LTs are fine, their main issue is the idiot player base.

 

An LT who plays conservatively gets so much abuse from the spawn campers who want you to risk everything to "spot". But the yolo LTs get no abuse?! What the idiots actually want you to do is suicide so they can farm whoever shoots at you.

 

If I ever play LTs seriously I will disable all team chat...

Best idea if you want a tactical game, but I'm not so sure about the OP's statement entirely,downinthe low tiers,(1 2 and 3) Lt's mainly fight Lt's with a few mediums sprinkled in,just waht is nottolove about the Panzer 1c?

 

I'm no expert but early Tiers is where the "tank" as a vehicle begins to emerge with little variations. I don't think you'll be doing much spotting in whatever maps you have for Tier I and II. On Tier III those differences are more noticeable but once more, I don't think a lotta people will remain there for too long.

 

Pz. I C is a good vehicle. Nothing against it. It's the vehicles further down the line that are a disappointment.

 

 

With regards to what others said about the EBR 105, keep in mind that tremendous speed does come with a cost in other departments on the so-called tank triangle.

I've been powergrinding the Hotchkiss recently and I can assure you even HTs do not break a sweat hitting me from 200m+

Tank triangle has no basis as an idea, as long as we get stuff like OP russian tanks into this game.

22:36 Added after 1 minute

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 11 November 2019 - 11:29 PM, said:

 

Campaigns always existed and the 2nd front campaign is nation, not class, specific. Sure you need a light tank for some missions but you also need all classes. Those doesn't explain the recent increase of LTs per team.

 

Spoiler

 

I don't remember seeing anything like this in recent years apart from a patch day or some new light line. This is something WG talked about too in a recent Q&A: tweaking the MM so it can be smarter and these cases don't happen.


WG's statements mean jack and s*** at the same time.

 

You had 2 light lines being introduced into the game, with one of them being mandatory for CW's (EBR) and campaigns 2.0 being nation specific is exactly what i said.

This is also the reason why we get so much arty now, campaigns 2.0.

 

On top of this, if you had US, german or chinese light tanks you want to do the EBR because it is the light line even for the campaigns 1.0.


Edited by VarzA, 11 November 2019 - 11:38 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #37 Posted 12 November 2019 - 12:18 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 12 November 2019 - 02:35 AM, said:

You had 2 light lines being introduced into the game, with one of them being mandatory for CW's (EBR) and campaigns 2.0 being nation specific is exactly what i said.

This is also the reason why we get so much arty now, campaigns 2.0.

 

On top of this, if you had US, german or chinese light tanks you want to do the EBR because it is the light line even for the campaigns 1.0.

 

The 2nd front campaign is nation specific not class specific. In the 1st campaign we had 15 LT missions per operation (Stug , T28, etc.), that's 25% of pure light tanks game play or 20% if you plan to get all the orders. Do you have a percentage of light tanks specific missions in the 2nd campaign operations (Excalibur, Chimera and 279)?

 

Also CWs are played by a very small percentage of the players. Some of them will play lights anyway and will grind the new lines in any case. That's not an argument really considering that we get 2-3 lights on average per team in randoms.

 

People play lights a lot and that's a fact for whatever reason. I didn't say i know exactly why they would play an inferior class or how much of them play lights for missions. If you got some numbers or some solid data please share otherwise i don't have anything else to add to this discussion.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 12 November 2019 - 12:21 AM.


Rati_Festa #38 Posted 12 November 2019 - 12:20 AM

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Light tanks increased in appearances in game with the release of all the premiums in that class. T92, elc, lt 432, hwk 30, ebr.. etc etc all last 18 mths? In my experience you dont actually see many tech trees its prem lights

No doubt people play them to complete pms or to crew train to then attempt pms at t10 with a better crew.

VarzA #39 Posted 12 November 2019 - 12:50 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 12 November 2019 - 01:18 AM, said:

 

The 2nd front campaign is nation specific not class specific. In the 1st campaign we had 15 LT missions per operation (Stug , T28, etc.), that's 25% of pure light tanks game play or 20% if you plan to get all the orders. Do you have a percentage of light tanks specific missions in the 2nd campaign operations (Excalibur, Chimera and 279)?

 

Also CWs are played by a very small percentage of the players. Some of them will play lights anyway and will grind the new lines in any case. That's not an argument really considering that we get 2-3 lights on average per team in randoms.

 

People play lights a lot and that's a fact for whatever reason. I didn't say i know exactly why they would play an inferior class or how much of them play lights for missions. If you got some numbers or some solid data please share otherwise i don't have anything else to add to this discussion.

 

Where would i get data, i'm not WG, i just look at developments over the past 1yr or so.

 

That being said, i do try to complete campagins 2.0 and i notice i can't do with just the t-100 lt that i had before, now i need lights on more than 1 nation.

So i am grinding the german line, finished somewhat the american one and doing the wheelies because in terms of pure scouting they are vastly superior to the tracked french one.

You keep saying it's nation specific ... yes, that's what i mean, i'm not sure what you are thinking when you mention that though.



HassenderZerhacker #40 Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:12 AM

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View PostRicky_Rolls, on 10 November 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

Yea lights are garbage, that's why there are between 2 and 4 them each game.

 

actually, at higher tiers, there used to be 2-3 per game, but now about 25% of games are without any lights.

 

WG clearly over-nerfed them, while EBRs came in and introduced more randomness. just report them to give a clear signal.







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