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Obsolete Tanks phenomen


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jaxx77 #1 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:34 PM

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I'd like to highlight what happens when tanks become too powerful.

Lets say we have bunch of balanced tanks in game, we have variety of choices of what to play with. Then few OP tanks appear.

What happens ?

Instead of increasing number of tanks in game WG actually reduces it. With each powerful tank introduced they set new standard. People won't play weaker old tanks because they have better choice, so even though they exist in tech tree you don't meet them in game. Pool of played tanks is lower so it is almost as if old tanks were removed from the game.

They at most become nuisance you have to go through when grinding higher tier targeted tank, and you won't play them anymore after.

 

The only solution is to either nerf powerful tanks, what makes people who have them unhappy, or buff the old tanks, and that makes everyone happy. So the second choice seems smarter solution.

While bringing new tanks into the game WG should  make effort to buff obsolete ones, perhaps with similar priority, because technically it is as if we are given new tank, or rather newer version and people will want try it again.

 



Stevies_Team #2 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:36 PM

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It's deffo an ongoing issue

TungstenHitman #3 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:51 PM

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There has always been an element of that in the game but it's done on purpose with the intention of keeping players interested and playing this game instead of it become stale and leaving to a new game, a new challenge etc. So there's a constant cycle of buffing this tanks in this game and if gives a reason for players to take on new lines of tanks and grind new tanks they might not have had. If it stayed the same, it would get boring of course but also everyone would end up with the strongest tank and there wouldn't be much reason to play the same class alternative since it would just be a weaker tank so it keeps things fresh and constantly changing to a degree.

 

The latest buffed tank will generally be really strong, bordering OP if not outright OP. Sometimes they'll get it wrong and it will need a little nerf and at other times the buff wasn't enough and they buff it again. That tank will then generally stay unchanged for years and will slowly bleed away it's strong status as all the other tanks one by one get their buffs and either match old dog and/or pass it out.

 

Of course, you have some tanks like the Chinese meds that are crying out for a buff not just for months but pretty much since their introduction that get ignored but I guess WG aren't bothered with some lines they can get back to whenever they want to stimulate some new interest with a big tech tree overhaul pretty much any time they feel it's in their interest to do so.

 

They'll add a broken or op premium tank like a Defender every now and then with the same intentions of making money just a more direct and fast cash grab approach but of course the problem with that, which I'm sure they're aware of, is that making one tank so much stronger than the other premium same class options means nobody really want to buy any of the other ones, even if the price is much cheaper for the weaker alternative and a lot higher for the OP option. 



BQBD #4 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:52 PM

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In other words....powercreep :trollface:

PhooBar #5 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:53 PM

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Doubtful.

WG are capitalists. 

If it doesn't make them money, they're unlikely to do it.



Kill_Broccoli #6 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:56 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 11 November 2019 - 03:51 PM, said:

There has always been an element of that in the game but it's done on purpose with the intention of keeping players interested and playing this game instead of it become stale and leaving to a new game, a new challenge etc. So there's a constant cycle of buffing this tanks in this game and if gives a reason for players to take on new lines of tanks and grind new tanks they might not have had. If it stayed the same, it would get boring of course but also everyone would end up with the strongest tank and there wouldn't be much reason to play the same class alternative since it would just be a weaker tank so it keeps things fresh and constantly changing to a degree.

 

The latest buffed tank will generally be really strong, bordering OP if not outright OP. Sometimes they'll get it wrong and it will need a little nerf and at other times the buff wasn't enough and they buff it again. That tank will then generally stay unchanged for years and will slowly bleed away it's strong status as all the other tanks one by one get their buffs and either match old dog and/or pass it out.

 

Of course, you have some tanks like the Chinese meds that are crying out for a buff not just for months but pretty much since their introduction that get ignored but I guess WG aren't bothered with some lines they can get back to whenever they want to stimulate some new interest with a big tech tree overhaul pretty much any time they feel it's in their interest to do so.

 

They'll add a broken or op premium tank like a Defender every now and then with the same intentions of making money just a more direct and fast cash grab approach but of course the problem with that, which I'm sure they're aware of, is that making one tank so much stronger than the other premium same class options means nobody really want to buy any of the other ones, even if the price is much cheaper for the weaker alternative and a lot higher for the OP option. 

 

And everything would be fine if this was limited to tech tree only, but powercreep also impact premium and no, i'm not happy to have my 45€ t8 heavy premium become utterly useless because everything nowadays is either uberfast or a moving rock, neither thanmy only option to recover some of the money spent is via trade-in, losing half of the value and being limited to ingame tanks only which generally are the least powerful.



pihip #7 Posted 11 November 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View Postjaxx77, on 11 November 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

They at most become nuisance you have to go through when grinding higher tier targeted tank, and you won't play them anymore after.


You pretty much answered yourself with this line.

This has been WG's formula for years, though at least it used to be that grinding one tank unlocked a few modules on the following tank and eased the grind. That does not seem to be the case anymore (just look at the Polish, CZ/SK and Swedish lines), so now either you suffer the pain of stock tanks or, if you've got the means and are willing to pay, buy credits/gold in the shop and skip the bothersome grinds.



Balc0ra #8 Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:04 PM

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Thing is that nerfing OP tanks can just create a mirror issue as such. Then again underpowered tanks are a bigger issue IMO. Even if you nerfed the OP tanks, you will still have UP. And some are worse off than others, and OP or new higher meta tanks just set the bar higher. But as we all know, there is a big rebalance planned to fix this issue... again, inc UP tanks. But it won't happen until the gold ammo rebalance is done.

 

But even if you have everyone balanced to the same meta, you still have different styles or ideas they are balanced around to set them apart. Not all HT's are brawlers, and they get perks in other areas etc. Or even the UK lights vs... any light. As they are only aimed at "a few" as WG said. So I suspect there will always be tanks that "trail behind" for some regardless with that alone. Tho ofc to a lesser degree.



TungstenHitman #9 Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:12 PM

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View PostKill_Broccoli, on 11 November 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

And everything would be fine if this was limited to tech tree only, but powercreep also impact premium and no, i'm not happy to have my 45€ t8 heavy premium become utterly useless because everything nowadays is either uberfast or a moving rock, neither thanmy only option to recover some of the money spent is via trade-in, losing half of the value and being limited to ingame tanks only which generally are the least powerful.

 

Well, the way I see it when I buy a premium tank(which is rare). If I played it lots of times and got months or even years out of that premium tank before it lost it's competitiveness to power creep and becomes weak, that's a hell of a lot of good value and longevity compared to the sorts of money that wouldn't cover an evening at a sports stadium and barely a night out in town these days, taxi, food, few drinks, cloak room, night club etc... you can't argue with that if the tank is strong when you buy it. It's not going to become obsolete in a few days or weeks or even months. It's going to stay strong most likely for a year, or even longer... so it's great value if you play the game a lot and will use it a lot up until that point. 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 11 November 2019 - 04:14 PM.


UserZer00 #10 Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:23 PM

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Well, you do have the option of actually choosing to play a tank or tank line that you know is under powered because you like the challenge of seeing if you can actually do well even with the handicaps associated with the tanks.

 

Also, for those 3 mark masters, it's probably a lot easier to mark these kind of tank lines (3-mark experts please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

I'm not saying it's not frustrating as hell for the type of players who just want to grind every line, or for the players who want to get to a specific tank in the line because it's their dream tank.

 

They probably should try and concentrate on balancing the tanks in competitive tiers (clan war tanks, etc.), but for the other tiers I think leaving a few "dogs" in the tech tree grind just adds flavor and gives players something to complain about or look to as a challenge. 



Kill_Broccoli #11 Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:45 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 11 November 2019 - 04:12 PM, said:

 

Well, the way I see it when I buy a premium tank(which is rare). If I played it lots of times and got months or even years out of that premium tank before it lost it's competitiveness to power creep and becomes weak, that's a hell of a lot of good value and longevity. It's not going to become obsolete in a few days or weeks or even months. It's going to stay strong most likely for a year, or even longer... so it's great value if you play the game a lot and will use it a lot up until that point. 

 

I beg to differ, if i spend 45€ on a tank i want it to be reasonably playable for the whole existence of the game, not to become useless because the meta shifted due to new tanks introduction and matchmaking changes.

I expect them to be updated reasonably to follow the meta, otherwise why i should be incentivesed to spend more money on something that can be useless the next patch?



TungstenHitman #12 Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:54 PM

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View PostKill_Broccoli, on 11 November 2019 - 03:45 PM, said:

 

I beg to differ, if i spend 45€ on a tank i want it to be reasonably playable for the whole existence of the game, not to become useless because the meta shifted due to new tanks introduction and matchmaking changes.

I expect them to be updated reasonably to follow the meta, otherwise why i should be incentivesed to spend more money on something that can be useless the next patch?

 

Can you tell me which €45 premium tank it is you are talking about which is now useless and obsolete?



SaintMaddenus #13 Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:59 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 11 November 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

 

Can you tell me which €45 premium tank it is you are talking about which is now useless and obsolete?

Lowe in a Tier 10 battle.   slow and a big target, Tier 10's penetrates its best feature, the turret, with ease, worse with gold ammo.  I can only hope with a max +1 mm


 


 


 



Kill_Broccoli #14 Posted 11 November 2019 - 05:15 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 11 November 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

 

Can you tell me which €45 premium tank it is you are talking about which is now useless and obsolete?

 

IS6 is a solid example.



jaxx77 #15 Posted 11 November 2019 - 05:46 PM

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View PostPhooBar, on 11 November 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

Doubtful.

WG are capitalists. 

If it doesn't make them money, they're unlikely to do it.

More playable tanks=longer player 'lifespan' (more time player spends playing and spending money)



Nishi_Kinuyo #16 Posted 11 November 2019 - 05:47 PM

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Friendly reminder that it took two years to buff the Type 5 Heavy to a playable state, and then another two years to rightly nerf the broken mess they made.

markynocarpy #17 Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:49 PM

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Looking at the tiers in the game . Is it time to up them to balance them out more just an idea ?

HassenderZerhacker #18 Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:07 AM

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View Postjaxx77, on 11 November 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

I'd like to highlight what happens when tanks become too powerful.

Lets say we have bunch of balanced tanks in game, we have variety of choices of what to play with. Then few OP tanks appear.

What happens ?

Instead of increasing number of tanks in game WG actually reduces it. With each powerful tank introduced they set new standard. People won't play weaker old tanks because they have better choice, so even though they exist in tech tree you don't meet them in game. Pool of played tanks is lower so it is almost as if old tanks were removed from the game.

They at most become nuisance you have to go through when grinding higher tier targeted tank, and you won't play them anymore after.

 

The only solution is to either nerf powerful tanks, what makes people who have them unhappy, or buff the old tanks, and that makes everyone happy. So the second choice seems smarter solution.

While bringing new tanks into the game WG should  make effort to buff obsolete ones, perhaps with similar priority, because technically it is as if we are given new tank, or rather newer version and people will want try it again.

 

 

tank balance is less of an issue than team balance.

 



Inappropriate_noob #19 Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:55 AM

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View Postjaxx77, on 11 November 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

I'd like to highlight what happens when tanks become too powerful.

Lets say we have bunch of balanced tanks in game, we have variety of choices of what to play with. Then few OP tanks appear.

What happens ?

Instead of increasing number of tanks in game WG actually reduces it. With each powerful tank introduced they set new standard. People won't play weaker old tanks because they have better choice, so even though they exist in tech tree you don't meet them in game. Pool of played tanks is lower so it is almost as if old tanks were removed from the game.

They at most become nuisance you have to go through when grinding higher tier targeted tank, and you won't play them anymore after.

 

The only solution is to either nerf powerful tanks, what makes people who have them unhappy, or buff the old tanks, and that makes everyone happy. So the second choice seems smarter solution.

While bringing new tanks into the game WG should  make effort to buff obsolete ones, perhaps with similar priority, because technically it is as if we are given new tank, or rather newer version and people will want try it again.

 

They should,but....

 

Why bother, pure laziness to try and actually improve the game when all you have to do is sell tanks, laziness is the key, and as we the EU community are never listened to,we just have to suck it up.



Yaccay #20 Posted 12 November 2019 - 07:19 AM

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View Postjaxx77, on 11 November 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

.....

The only solution is to either nerf powerful tanks, ...

 

That is what WG will never do with premium tanks. (100%  sure)

Looks like WG will never do with Russian tanks. (most probably - see: OBJ430U)

What WG do not realize, for short term, for a 1 year and 2, it increases WG's profit. Some people buy the new OP premium tanks.

But even the new OP tanks will be obsolete after the next generation of OP premium tanks will be released.

So buying a premium tank is an investment which does not keep its value.

People will realize this sooner or later and will not buy any premium tanks.

 






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