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Firefighting Directive


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Scabolcz #1 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:18 PM

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Does anyone else experience this... What is the point of this directive? To reduce fire damage? 627 dmg with a firefighting directive/skill doesn't sound right.

 

19:20 Added after 2 minute
Anyone with directive active experienced high burn dmg?

Homer_J #2 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:22 PM

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It works the same as the firefighting skill - which is so good almost nobody chooses it until they have no other skills to pick from.

8126Jakobsson #3 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:23 PM

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Yeah I was disappointed at how tame it is. Still burns a hell of a lot. But it's something, I guess. 

Homer_J #4 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:30 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 17 November 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

But it's something,

Does anyone have any actual figures on the firefighting skill?  I'm guessing it's a few percent less damage per tick and a few percent faster putting the fire out.



UrQuan #5 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 17 November 2019 - 08:30 PM, said:

Does anyone have any actual figures on the firefighting skill?  I'm guessing it's a few percent less damage per tick and a few percent faster putting the fire out.

 

Tankschmidt does explain more on how it works in his crew skill guide (section: crew skill explanations -> see common skill ) From tests it turns out that it can reduce fire damage by 40%-45%. However it also turned out the effect was tank-specific (some tanks get less fire damage reduction) hence it was the least interesting common skill to train. Mainly depends if you carry a fire-extinguisher or not on your tank. 



8126Jakobsson #6 Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 17 November 2019 - 08:30 PM, said:

Does anyone have any actual figures on the firefighting skill?  I'm guessing it's a few percent less damage per tick and a few percent faster putting the fire out.


Checked it up on the wiki just now and it doesn't say much about it. 

 

Block Quote

Fire Damage

There are two ways the enemy can set your tank on fire:

  • If your fuel tank's hitpoints reach zero, your tank automatically catches fire.
  • Each time your engine gets hit, there is a chance that your tank catches fire. This chance depends on the engine and is displayed on the engine module's properties in game or here on the wiki. Note that the transmission counts as part of the engine but hits to the transmission do not cause fires.

While your tank is on fire, it constantly takes both hull as well as module and crew damage. The exact damage rate depends on the tank but is not displayed in game. The duration of the fire also depends on the tank on your crew's effective Firefighting skill level, and whether your Driver has the Preventative Maintenance perk active and whether you use Automatic Fire Extinguishers consumable; you can also extinguish a fire manually by using Manual Fire Extinguishers consumable.

It should be noted that driving while being on fire increases the extinguishing time considerably.

 

https://wiki.wargami...ics#Fire_Damage

 

very meh

 

Block Quote

The Firefighting Skill improves the crew member's ability to put out a fire, should a vehicle ever be unlucky enough to be in such a situation. The Firefighting Skill takes effect immediately when the vehicle catches fire. The higher the Training Level for this Skill, the faster a fire is put out and the less the amount of damage per second the fire does to the vehicle before it is extinguished. The Firefighting Skill does NOT reduce the chances of a vehicle catching on fire in the first place. The Firefighting Skill is a common Skill which each one of the crew members on a single vehicle may acquire. The effective Firefighting Skill Training Level is averaged across the entire crew. If only one crewman in a crew of 4 has this Skill at 80% Training Level then the effectiveness upon the vehicle's fire fighting performance is (80+0+0+0)/4 or 20%. 

 

https://wiki.wargami.../en/Crew#Skills

 

meeeeeeeeh 

 

Remember reading that you burned less if you were stationary but that's not there now. I liked that idea. 



BR33K1_PAWAH #7 Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:08 PM

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It can save you 300-350 hp and reduce amount of crits you'll get from a fire. I use it on every tank with food, which basically is every tank :P

Erwin_Von_Braun #8 Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:31 PM

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Got it on most of my high skill crews but I run Auto Extinguishers on all tanks so it kinda seems rather pointless.

I do, however, have it & Preventative Maintenance on my VK16.02, purely because I run it with food & the bloody thing was always catching fire!



Schepel #9 Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:08 AM

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View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 17 November 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

It can save you 300-350 hp and reduce amount of crits you'll get from a fire. I use it on every tank with food, which basically is every tank :P

 

This. It is a really nice perk to get on tanks you play without a fire extinguisher. It won't stop you from taking any damage at all, or even taking severe damage, but it will stop you from getting killed, unless you were severely damaged prior to the fire, obviously. One shouldn't take it over repairs or BIA, but I have come to greatly appreciate it especially on lights and light mediums that may spontaneously burst into flames when arty so much as considers aiming for you.



Kissa_ei_kuulu_pakkaseen #10 Posted 18 November 2019 - 10:19 AM

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It's a directive good to have in case of fire. However, as the damage is still pretty high, I tend to do everything to not set on fire on tanks I run foods (all tier X CW tanks) so I have been using Preventive maintenance perk on all my CW tank crews:

 

Preventative Maintenance Driver The Preventive Maintenance Perk enables the Driver to reduce by 25% the chance of engine fire by preventing gas or oil leakage in the engine compartment. The effect of this Perk is cumulative with that of the reduced chance of fire provided by any purchased Automatic Fire Extinguisher premium consumable.


Cobra6 #11 Posted 18 November 2019 - 11:33 AM

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I was running firefighting on my AMX 13 57 because of it's massive fuel tank under the turret and didn't notice an improvement, removed it again. It's worthless pretty much, you will still lose a ton of HP to fires.

 

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Krazy_Kalle #12 Posted 18 November 2019 - 11:35 AM

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The directive plus skills actually saved me once in my leopard 1. Without that stuff I wouldve been dead but it safed me a few HP and I had a rather okay game afterwards. I would say it's not that bad and only neccessary if you don't use a fire extinguisher.

TungstenHitman #13 Posted 18 November 2019 - 11:45 AM

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I asked something similar months ago, was seeking devs to buff the FF skill itself since it's not a one crewman skill and can actually be trained with the entire crew so should therefore befittingly be rendered a skill that actually does have a noticeable effect but alas, my request fell on blind or ignorant eyes. 

 

It's not completely useless though. If you get set on fire from full hp(less the shot value of what set you on fire) you only burn until 99% of your hp is gone instead of dying... see??? how good that is and totally worth having??? :facepalm:

 

I run my funtank T49 derp with food and it's a bit of a tinder box so I had plenty of time to test the FF directive so for that tank, my FF ability would read as follows. The FF directive(100% FF crew skill), crew themselves have about 50% FF skill(not sure if it stacks), food which boosts all crew skill aspects and abilities with FF being one of those abilities that gets improved by food of course and then the vent itself which further heightens that crews FF ability. The result? Burn and dead. Well there you have it, totally worth it then. 



Schepel #14 Posted 18 November 2019 - 11:57 AM

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Block Quote

 It's not completely useless though. If you get set on fire from full hp(less the shot value of what set you on fire) you only burn until 99% of your hp is gone instead of dying... see??? how good that is and totally worth having???

 

The difference between dead and not dead is not insignificant. The fact you still take serious damage with this perk is what proper balance looks like. The choice to not bring a fire extinguisher shouldn't be completely mitigated by a perk. Just like repairs doesn't allow you to play with a repair kit, really. What this perk does, especially for lightly armoured tanks is simple: it stops low damage hits from killing you outright. If you can't see or notice the difference, you should pay a bit more attention and/or honestly ask yourself what the beep you expect from this perk. If it is a magic cure for fires, it won't perform as expected. Rightly so, imho. If you look at it as a way to improve your chances at survival, it does the job quite nicely. Also note it works as a back-up for second fires. On some tanks, that isn't a trivial benefit.

Edited by Schepel, 18 November 2019 - 11:58 AM.


TungstenHitman #15 Posted 18 November 2019 - 12:52 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 18 November 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

The difference between dead and not dead is not insignificant. The fact you still take serious damage with this perk is what proper balance looks like. The choice to not bring a fire extinguisher shouldn't be completely mitigated by a perk. Just like repairs doesn't allow you to play with a repair kit, really. What this perk does, especially for lightly armoured tanks is simple: it stops low damage hits from killing you outright. If you can't see or notice the difference, you should pay a bit more attention and/or honestly ask yourself what the beep you expect from this perk. If it is a magic cure for fires, it won't perform as expected. Rightly so, imho. If you look at it as a way to improve your chances at survival, it does the job quite nicely. Also note it works as a back-up for second fires. On some tanks, that isn't a trivial benefit.

 

Probably one of the worst comments I've read. How's it balanced to still burn to death from almost full hp after training not just 1, but an ENTIRE crew with this skill to 100%? 

 

"Not carrying a fire extinguisher shouldn't be completely mitigated by a perk"

 

Well firstly its a skill but that's not important. Nobody said completely mitigated. What I am saying is better than almost completely useless as it currently is and again, befitting the all crew requirements, it's not like Situ where just one crew needs to train for full effects, this needs to be the entire crew, therefore 1%-10% less fire damage is trash. An auto-extinguisher insta-stops a fire with barely any fire damage at all, a manual is as fast as a players reactions so lets not use words like "completely mitigate" where all that was asked for was a significant improvement.

 

"If you can't see or notice the difference, you should pay a bit more attention and/or honestly ask yourself what the beep you expect from this perk"

 I expect more from it than burning to death for almost full hp.... you can read yes?

 

"If it is a magic cure for fires, it won't perform as expected. Rightly so, imho."

Rightly so that the skill currently barely does anything at all? Well that's an opinion I don't share. Also, what's "magic cure" about? It's a crew that has been trained to fight fires therefore they can fight fires effectively, there's no magic involved honestly. 

 

"If you look at it as a way to improve your chances at survival, it does the job quite nicely. Also note it works as a back-up for second fires."

Well like I said the returns don't befit the all crew requirement and it's currently practically useless so no it doesn't "do the job quite nice" the opposite in fact.

 

You want to know the difference? Take repairs skills ok. Now, if you get tracked with no repair kit and no repairs skill on your crew, you will sit there with no tracks for a long time repairing, most likely die or get perma-tracked and killed off. But if you have all your crew trained to 100% repair skills, your tracks are repaired rather quickly, this skill makes a huge difference and significanlty increases your chances of survival to the extent that sometimes its better to just wait for your tracks to quickly repair by your crew and not use your repair kit at all. I am looking for a similar level of potency with the FF skill. Having a full repairs skill on a crew does not mitigate the need for a repair kit nor does is it ever repair faster than having a repair kit. I'm looking for something similar with FF, not burn for 99% of your health. If you disagree with that, fine, your opinion of course but if you want to throw drama at it with words like "magic cure" and "completely mitigate" which nothing I said leans towards suggesting, that's your prerogative, just don't expect anyone to take your following comments seriously.  


Edited by TungstenHitman, 18 November 2019 - 01:03 PM.


snowlywhite #16 Posted 18 November 2019 - 01:53 PM

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it's probably the best directive; anyway, definitely the best if price is taken into consideration.

 

the fact you sometimes burn to death is irrelevant. The mechanic itself is random. On each fire tick, there's a check to see if you extinguish the fire that tick or not. FF increases that chance. But obviously it's still perfectly possible to be unlucky and fail the tick checks.

 

it's pretty much the directive I run on all the t10(since I'm too cheap to run it on lower tiers). And there were plenty of times when I burnt for only 2-300 hp(out of 1.8-2.5k hp). Ofc, there were times when I burnt for 600+. Also, you really have to to stop when set on fire - get in cover, sit still. Afterwards it's a matter of luck. You get a good roll fast or you don't. With FF you have a higher chance, that's all...



Dava_117 #17 Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:04 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 18 November 2019 - 01:53 PM, said:

The mechanic itself is random. On each fire tick, there's a check to see if you extinguish the fire that tick or not.

 

That is not how fire works. 

If you read the thread linked by UrQuan, where Tankschmidt did experiments with several tanks, you will discover that, a part the first fire damage, the mechanic is quite deterministic, with each tick of fire having less and less damage untill reach 0 and the fire get put out.



8126Jakobsson #18 Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:06 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 18 November 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

Probably one of the worst comments I've read. 

 

Woah. I think you're being a bit unfair here. :P



vasilinhorulezz #19 Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:30 PM

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If you run food instead of fire extinguisher, believe me it really helps, it pretty much halves the damage you take from fires.

snowlywhite #20 Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:30 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 18 November 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

That is not how fire works. 

If you read the thread linked by UrQuan, where Tankschmidt did experiments with several tanks, you will discover that, a part the first fire damage, the mechanic is quite deterministic, with each tick of fire having less and less damage untill reach 0 and the fire get put out.

 

each tick does less dmg, that's true.

 

However, at which tick fire is put out is random, with a check on each tick. That's why sometimes you take dmg for 3s and sometimes for, dunno, 8s.






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