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How to solve the cupola problem


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Vanythe #1 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:05 PM

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Why not make it so that a tank only loses about 25% of its total HP if the cupola gets destroyed, and then the cupola becomes non-damageable like the viewports on french TDs? I know this idea has it's own problems but it sure is better than current cupola happy-clicking.

 

EDIT: Another, less "volatile" solution would be to reduce the cupola size on the armor model. Also remember that these are just suggestions, and each would have to be tested on supertest to make sure whether it's viable or not, either way, it would improve how tanks with cupolas and turrets perform in-game.

 

https://i.imgur.com/Ifm5Gw7.png


Edited by Vanythe, 21 November 2019 - 02:07 PM.


Homer_J #2 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:07 PM

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Others would suggest that all tanks should be given weakspots.

 

I would suggest you learn the weaknesses of your tank and try not to give people an easy shot at them.



Vanythe #3 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:08 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 20 November 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

Others would suggest that all tanks should be given weakspots.

 

I would suggest you learn the weaknesses of your tank and try not to give people an easy shot at them.


KV-5 would like to have a word with you :P



TungstenHitman #4 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:20 PM

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While some tanks like the 430U and IS-7 have no Cupolas at all, problem solved :great:

Edited by TungstenHitman, 20 November 2019 - 03:21 PM.


SaintMaddenus #5 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:22 PM

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My BDR has a giant zit on the top of its head begging to be shot at until the rest of the tank is dead.... 

 

The T29 used to have its "ears"....



Balc0ra #6 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:22 PM

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I'm gonna set up a scenario for you. VK 100.01 has it's "weakspot" on the cupola. As in the only area most equal tier HTs can pen it. As if the angles the hull, the lower plate is no longer 220 effective either, it's 250. So what happens when that VK pushes a T32 with 198 pen or even the IS-6 with 186 pen, and the cupola is gone and he can't damage him anymore on a high pen roll? As he can't pen or damage him anywhere else. It just shifts power the wrong way in most situations to be viable I suspect.

 

 



Homer_J #7 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:23 PM

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View PostVanythe, on 20 November 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:


KV-5 would like to have a word with you :P


There's 2 kinds of KV-5 player.

 

Good ones and those who get shot in the R2D2.

 

And without it's weakspots it would have to be a proper tier VIII and stand up to tier X who would wreck it no matter what.


Edited by Homer_J, 20 November 2019 - 03:24 PM.


Negativvv #8 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:26 PM

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Thing I'd say to OP is do your research.

 

Don't play tanks with clearly vulnerable tumours. I only play the strongest tanks,other than Panthers...



Vanythe #9 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:30 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 20 November 2019 - 03:22 PM, said:

I'm gonna set up a scenario for you. VK 100.01 has it's "weakspot" on the cupola. As in the only area most equal tier HTs can pen it. As if the angles the hull, the lower plate is no longer 220 effective either, it's 250. So what happens when that VK pushes a T32 with 198 pen or even the IS-6 with 186 pen, and the cupola is gone and he can't damage him anymore on a high pen roll? As he can't pen or damage him anywhere else. It just shifts power the wrong way in most situations to be viable I suspect.

 

 

Isn't that the point of having armor, not being able to get penned easily? What about flanking strong targets? Besides, my suggestion is that the tank shouldn't be able to get fully destroyed by just shooting at the same spot, especially when it's a cupola. Having a cupola currently negates any and *all* armor a tank has, because the said armor might be shot at once by a newbie, or twice if you miss the cupola, but other than that, the armor is invalidated just by having that tiny thing on your tank.

 

 

View PostHomer_J, on 20 November 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:


There's 2 kinds of KV-5 player.

 

Good ones and those who get shot in the R2D2.

 

And without it's weakspots it would have to be a proper tier VIII and stand up to tier X who would wreck it no matter what.

 

I believe there's 1 kind of KV-5 player, the kind that gets shot in all 4 of it's cupolas.

14:31 Added after 0 minute

View PostNegativvv, on 20 November 2019 - 03:26 PM, said:

Thing I'd say to OP is do your research.

 

Don't play tanks with clearly vulnerable tumours. I only play the strongest tanks,other than Panthers...


And where's the fun in that? Your suggestion would mean ignoring more than half of all the tanks in the game. Cupola just needs it's own mechanic, the rest is ok.



Homer_J #10 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:32 PM

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View PostVanythe, on 20 November 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

 

I believe there's 1 kind of KV-5 player, the kind that gets shot in all 4 of it's cupolas.

 

I've come up against some pretty good KV-5 players, and that was before they buffed the armour on the R2D2.

 

These days they are so rare that you'll probably find people don't know where to shoot it.



Nishi_Kinuyo #11 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:43 PM

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Cupola problem... cupola problem...

You mean the problem that too many tanks with [edited]turret armour have no cupola weakspot?



Murro_the_One #12 Posted 20 November 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View PostVanythe, on 20 November 2019 - 03:05 PM, said:

Why not make it so that a tank only loses about 25% of its total HP if the cupola gets destroyed, and then the cupola becomes non-damageable like the viewports on french TDs? I know this idea has it's own problems but it sure is better than current cupola happy-clicking.

this is valid point and all i see from forum contri*cough*butors is why it would not work

 

it is completely stupid if 1% of the tank sticks out of the cover and enemy keep shooting it that is what brings the destruction of the tank

 

everything is doable, but there would need to be some other company which values the user feedback and/or want to have their game best possible (not best platform for milking those, who doesnt have other things to spend their money on)


Edited by Murro_the_One, 20 November 2019 - 03:58 PM.


Negativvv #13 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:07 PM

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View PostVanythe, on 20 November 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:


And where's the fun in that? Your suggestion would mean ignoring more than half of all the tanks in the game. Cupola just needs it's own mechanic, the rest is ok.

Half?! There's about 75% tanks in the entire game i either won't touch or only play to grind through. It's more fun to win in something that is a competent vehicle than to lose in something underpowered. Your choice I guess... WG aren't going to change for you so adapt to the situation.



Homer_J #14 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:08 PM

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View PostMurro_the_One, on 20 November 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

this is valid point and all i see from forum contri*cough*butors is why it would not work

 

It's not about why it wouldn't work, it's would it be desirable and would it upset the balance if implemented.

 

A majority here want weakspots adding, not removing. 



Dava_117 #15 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:10 PM

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View PostVanythe, on 20 November 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

Isn't that the point of having armor, not being able to get penned easily? What about flanking strong targets? Besides, my suggestion is that the tank shouldn't be able to get fully destroyed by just shooting at the same spot, especially when it's a cupola. Having a cupola currently negates any and *all* armor a tank has, because the said armor might be shot at once by a newbie, or twice if you miss the cupola, but other than that, the armor is invalidated just by having that tiny thing on your tank.

 

OP, it's because of player like you if we have in game overarmoured tanks like Defender. Players that don't care to learn about armour mechanics and how to use it, but just want the armour to work by itself and save you from your own mistakes. 

 

Why are you exposing your R2D2 on KV-5? A part if you're ramming someone you should be mainly sidescraping, so using side armour and not the frontal armour to tank shells.



Isharial #16 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:10 PM

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View PostVanythe, on 20 November 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

Isn't that the point of having armor, not being able to get penned easily? What about flanking strong targets? Besides, my suggestion is that the tank shouldn't be able to get fully destroyed by just shooting at the same spot, especially when it's a cupola. Having a cupola currently negates any and *all* armor a tank has, because the said armor might be shot at once by a newbie, or twice if you miss the cupola, but other than that, the armor is invalidated just by having that tiny thing on your tank.

 

 

 

I believe there's 1 kind of KV-5 player, the kind that gets shot in all 4 of it's cupolas.

14:31 Added after 0 minute


And where's the fun in that? Your suggestion would mean ignoring more than half of all the tanks in the game. Cupola just needs it's own mechanic, the rest is ok.


the point of having armour is to extend your survivability, not make you immune to damage regardless of what you do. utilising armour is part of the game and a skill you have to learn, not be given. (there are some tanks that are blurring this line, but it effectively is this. ask Urquan about the KV-4 :P 

by making the cupola a non damageable point, you effectively make the tank invulnerable to lower tiers and many of its own tier. this is not balancing. 

The VK example balcora gave is a valid one.

 

"flank" it with a Tiger P. go on, I dare you.

or how about a Type 58? you cant even pen its weakest points with your AP shells so yeah. "flank" it?  good luck.

 

point is, flanking is not something that is a valid tactic when such tanks are pushing into your team. that VK also has a team so when your IS-6 cant pen it? whats the enemy doing? they all aren't going to sit there and let you flank it now are they?

try flanking on mountain pass, or empire's border... or how about ensk? or abbey? or how about... I can go on about all the corridor maps where flanking is limited or non existant, so this is not an entirely viable option for those that cant pen the VK100P. 

 

and that is just 1 tank, and there are many others which don't have any cupola's at all, Sconq for example or 279e. "flank" them, right? :sceptic:

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Isharial, 20 November 2019 - 04:11 PM.


Vanythe #17 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:19 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 20 November 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

 

OP, it's because of player like you if we have in game overarmoured tanks like Defender. Players that don't care to learn about armour mechanics and how to use it, but just want the armour to work by itself and save you from your own mistakes. 

 

Why are you exposing your R2D2 on KV-5? A part if you're ramming someone you should be mainly sidescraping, so using side armour and not the frontal armour to tank shells.

 

Funny that you assume that I'm one of the players that doesn't learn about armor, and let me tell you this. The cupolas on KV-5 are always exposed, there's no argument about it. If you don't expose the two frontal ones, tough luck, you have two more on top of the turret. There's no need to sidescrape in Kv-5, you'll just waste time trying to pretend you have some armor going on.

15:21 Added after 1 minute

View PostIsharial, on 20 November 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:


the point of having armour is to extend your survivability, not make you immune to damage regardless of what you do. utilising armour is part of the game and a skill you have to learn, not be given. (there are some tanks that are blurring this line, but it effectively is this. ask Urquan about the KV-4 :P 

by making the cupola a non damageable point, you effectively make the tank invulnerable to lower tiers and many of its own tier. this is not balancing. 

The VK example balcora gave is a valid one.

 

"flank" it with a Tiger P. go on, I dare you.

or how about a Type 58? you cant even pen its weakest points with your AP shells so yeah. "flank" it?  good luck.

 

point is, flanking is not something that is a valid tactic when such tanks are pushing into your team. that VK also has a team so when your IS-6 cant pen it? whats the enemy doing? they all aren't going to sit there and let you flank it now are they?

try flanking on mountain pass, or empire's border... or how about ensk? or abbey? or how about... I can go on about all the corridor maps where flanking is limited or non existant, so this is not an entirely viable option for those that cant pen the VK100P. 

 

and that is just 1 tank, and there are many others which don't have any cupola's at all, Sconq for example or 279e. "flank" them, right? :sceptic:

 

 

 

 

 


I never said I want to make any tank invulnerable, I said that cupola shouldn't destroy your entire tank if it gets shot a few times. Also, when I said flanking, I assume you have other tanks on your team rather than just Tiger Ps and what not. :P



Dava_117 #18 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:40 PM

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View PostVanythe, on 20 November 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:

 

Funny that you assume that I'm one of the players that doesn't learn about armor, and let me tell you this. The cupolas on KV-5 are always exposed, there's no argument about it. If you don't expose the two frontal ones, tough luck, you have two more on top of the turret. There's no need to sidescrape in Kv-5, you'll just waste time trying to pretend you have some armor going on.

 

LeL. Have you any idea how tall is the KV-5? Many tank will have an hard time hitting those if you get close enought. And it's no like those are paper. 190mm at tier 8 is still strong, especially if you wriggle around and move your hull back and forth, became harder to hit and, even if the enemy manage to get a shot on it, it may bounce on the external part of the round shape.

Also piking the right side of corners to hide the tall cupola is part of the armour usage.



pecopad #19 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:43 PM

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Providing the cuppolas are not in central position, I'm Ok, since we can hide them,  but central weakspots are just stupid in Armour tanks, renders the whole tank armor obsolete, better play a paper tank.

Vanythe #20 Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:44 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 20 November 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:

 

LeL. Have you any idea how tall is the KV-5? Many tank will have an hard time hitting those if you get close enought. And it's no like those are paper. 190mm at tier 8 is still strong, especially if you wriggle around and move your hull back and forth, became harder to hit and, even if the enemy manage to get a shot on it, it may bounce on the external part of the round shape.

Also piking the right side of corners to hide the tall cupola is part of the armour usage.


What you suggested is very situational at best. Again, an entire tank should not be destroyed just because it gets a few shots in the cupola.






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