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How is this mod legal?

mods mod_advantages viewrange illegal?

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Gremlin182 #141 Posted Yesterday, 01:01 PM

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Probably gives a bit of an advantage in that you can look at an enemy tank see which way he is facing or where the gun is pointing and try to outmaneuver them.

If they are paying attention it doesn't work as soon as you move they counter but yes a small advantage.


Edited by Gremlin182, Yesterday, 11:47 PM.


In_Flames90 #142 Posted Yesterday, 01:01 PM

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Mods are kinda like premium ammo.
In the hands of a good player that knows how to use and take advantage of them they can seem a bit unfair to non-mod users.

In the hands of a bad player, they're just tools that don't really offer any true advantage since they don't know what to do with it.
Some examples: (My personal thoughts on the matter, some from experince, not the 100% truth)

Zoom out mod: Bad players get "tunnel-visioned" on things far away and lose focus on whats actually around them.

Armor values: Too much information to process, instead of a sufficient armor pen indicator already in general settings. I've tried it one session and got distracted by all the numbers and ended up spending more time to aim for spots that would give me a higher succes chance of penning, instead of the simple: yay, nay, maybe.

Module hitboxes: Even if you can see modules, doesn't mean you can pen there. Probably too many people aiming for modules with no clue it's behind 400mm angled armor.

AngelofAwe #143 Posted Yesterday, 01:35 PM

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View PostMPV_11, on 24 January 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:


On the face of it you might think that these mods (and the zoom out mod) might offer significant advantages, but at some point or other I've tried some of these and ditched them because they also have disadvantages. To name just a few:

 

Zoom out mod - as someone mentioned, if you are in a city or close to a cliff or building then trying to get back to normal zoom is a nightmare. I have been killed many times because I've not been able to get back to normal viewing whilst zoomed out. I still use it but with limited zoom to make it more controllable.

 

Show HP - The one I have used doesn't show HP until an enemy is spotted. Probably one of the most useful mods (I don't use the minimap version, there is one that puts the HP next to each tank icon) but only an advantage in a few situations. But to give you the current HP the enemy tanks have to have been spotted so its not giving information that in theory isn't already known by the team (if teams actually communicated). Hardly a game breaker.

 

Block shooting at wrecks/allies - Sounds good until an enemy tank is behind a wreck or ally. if your aiming circle is even slightly over the wreck or ally then you can't shoot. Soon gets you killed as the enemy uses wrecks/allies for cover and you sit there doing nothing

 

50m spotting circle - there's a grid on the minimap - its not rocket science to work out where 50m is so its a convenience rather than a game breaker

 

10s Sixth Sense - you can just count to 10s and it doesn't tell you whether you are still spotted (its just a timer - could use my phone), so again a convenience rather than a game breaker

 

These are just a few that I can remember off-hand. So they do have some uses but in the hands of a mediocre player like myself they are hardly going to propel me to the dizzy heights of a unicum and when I play without them my stats don't change. Probably will help better players more but then better players already have access to much more game breaking advantages such as improved equipment which the average joe struggles to earn enough bonds to buy or even worse tanks such as the Obj 907, T95/Chieftan and Obj 279e etc... (yes in theory most players could get this stuff but in reality they don't and probably never will)

 



Your defenses of these mods do not really make any case for why they aren't "unfair advantages".
Some of the defenses are even pretty bad.

Stuck in zoom out mod? Press shift to go into sniper view and you can scroll from there instead and you're instantly back at your tank.

The HP one you speak of is not the same as the one I speak of. While still an advantage to have the information so easily at hand I'm fine with it if they're within draw range.

Blocked shots only prevent you from firing if the center of your reticle is on a wreck or ally, unless something has changed in the past years.

The spotting circle is a huge advantage, you know the literal moment you get proxy spotted rather than having to guess. You know if you're within proxy range and permanently lit by that enemy on the other side of the rock or if you can get out safely. You know if that enemy scout going close by you is coming close enough to light you in your bush.
This circle should be in vanilla but until/unless it is, it's probably the largest advantage in this list, especially for scout players.

10s 6th sense is also a major advantage. The average player has to spend a lot of brain power on keeping an eye on the timer or just practice a lot to get a "feeling" for when 10s have passed. OR they have to wait a few seconds extra every time just to be sure 10s have passed before peeking.
The mod just outright telling you is huge, although not fool proof if you're not aware enough to know at what point you've moved into cover and are no longer being actively spotted.
This mod is little different from a mod telling you the reload time of the enemy tank and giving you a counter for that too.

Nobody is expecting any of these mods to propel you or anybody else to unicums.
You could use all the actual cheats available for the game including aimbots, tundra, lasers and all that stuff and it would still not make any significant difference to stats.
That doesn't mean they are not unfair advantages however.

 



Flicka #144 Posted Yesterday, 01:42 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 24 January 2020 - 12:17 PM, said:

 

What exactly does any of that have to do with you comparing the use of mods to changing settings as being similar in the advantage they provide?

 

Plus, let's not forget this pearl:

 

I'm yet to understand the point you're trying to make, so I'll repeat myself when I say I'm unsure if you're dumb, in the sense that you're clueless, or sly, in the sense you might be trying to defend your own actions by applying some backwards logic.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

Which, again, begs the question:

what sort of vetting is being done before something gets featured on their own portal?


Ok, then I have to ask, what do you think is considered as un "unfair advantage"?

 

Since the term is so loose that it only depends on the person using it, and only the other person opinion can make something unfair.

You can see that in everything these days, from sport, politics...hell, everything.

 

What I was trying to say is that players will and should use everything they deem as fair to improve their gameplay. And I do believe that making the game run smooth is as crucial as having some mod. How you fail to see the correlation there is kinda your problem. Like the same problem that you seem to think most of the posts on these forums are dumb lately, but hell, thats only an opinion right?

 

As for the server reticle, well that's something personal again, as I like to know where I am actually aiming. I do have ping that's mostly around 35, but I still use it because it provides info that helps me. Now, if somebody playing on a ping of 80, and a bit unstable, has that turned off, which it is by default, I would say they are in a disadvantage.

 

I can do this in pictures too, if that would be easier for you to understand.

 

Lets say I do not understand how you do not understand how people look at advantages, and especially what they deem is unfair.

 

And the part of WG saying a mod is unfair, and banned, that is something we will never know what actually happens there.

Some were blatantly not cool, and got banned right away, some live in a state of limbo, and some...well, you never ever know they exist until somebody mentions it.

Like the battle hits mode, how many times did I go into replays to see what the hell I hit..and now, I can know instantly after the battle, and I learn stuff.

 

Imagine learning...and gaining knowledge...so you can "understand" stuff...just imagine



CmdRatScabies #145 Posted Yesterday, 02:01 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 24 January 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

10s 6th sense is also a major advantage.

Because counting to 10 is hard?



AngelofAwe #146 Posted Yesterday, 02:07 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 24 January 2020 - 03:01 PM, said:

Because counting to 10 is hard?


Yes, unless you are a clock it's quite challenging. Especially when you have other things to think about.
I go through an entire checklist in my head when I get spotted.
Where do I need to take cover to be safe from tanks? Anything on the minimap? Is there arty? Can they shoot me where I am? Are they reloaded? Where did I get spotted from? Am I still in spotting view? Do I need to relocate? Where should I go? Ok have I been unlit yet? Act.
I don't sit there and count to 10. 

Personally I have to go with estimation based on 40k worth of battles, usually I use my own reload as a counter and add a few seconds to be safe. I don't have time to check the timer and wait 10s based on that either in the middle of a battle, too many other things demand attention at all times.
Having a 10s counter "ping" me would be a major advantage. 

Look at it like this, every extra second you have to hide because you don't know if your 10 seconds have passed is another second out of the battle.
Assume you get lit 5 times during the game in situations where you have to hide and you wait 3 seconds extra every time to be safe.
You've lost 15 seconds worth of being in the game and being effective.
Considering the average battle is what... 5 minutes? 300 seconds?
That could potentially be a 5% loss of potential so it's like removing vents on all your tanks. It matters even if it's minor. 

Obviously none of the above are exact numbers, just an example of how it can be an advantage to know.


Edited by AngelofAwe, Yesterday, 02:16 PM.


Flicka #147 Posted Yesterday, 02:26 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 24 January 2020 - 02:07 PM, said:


Yes, unless you are a clock it's quite challenging. Especially when you have other things to think about.
I go through an entire checklist in my head when I get spotted.
Where do I need to take cover to be safe from tanks? Anything on the minimap? Is there arty? Can they shoot me where I am? Are they reloaded? Where did I get spotted from? Am I still in spotting view? Do I need to relocate? Where should I go? Ok have I been unlit yet? Act.
I don't sit there and count to 10. 

Personally I have to go with estimation based on 40k worth of battles, usually I use my own reload as a counter and add a few seconds to be safe. I don't have time to check the timer and wait 10s based on that either in the middle of a battle, too many other things demand attention at all times.
Having a 10s counter "ping" me would be a major advantage. 

Look at it like this, every extra second you have to hide because you don't know if your 10 seconds have passed is another second out of the battle.
Assume you get lit 5 times during the game in situations where you have to hide and you wait 3 seconds extra every time to be safe.
You've lost 15 seconds worth of being in the game and being effective.
Considering the average battle is what... 5 minutes? 300 seconds?
That could potentially be a 5% loss of potential so it's like removing vents on all your tanks. It matters even if it's minor. 

Obviously none of the above are exact numbers, just an example of how it can be an advantage to know.


Exactly this, from implementation of 6th sense, to understanding how it works, and then gaining a skill how to use it properly, that is how it should be done.

 

Lets take map circles. Once they were part of XVM, they provided great information, and advantage over any player who does not have them or cant use them.

You could say they provided unfair advantage.

Then they got put into game. So you could not say any longer they provide unfair advantage because they are in the client and everybody has them.

But then we come to having them turned off by default, and meaning probably we have a decent number of players not using them

Can you say that those who use them have an unfair advantage?

 

They should be tools to improve your gameplay by elevating your skill, and only that.

If they do something instead of you, that is just lazy.

 

But we should not get away from the OP's post, the mod in question does provide advantage, but again if you can use it.

And I do think it should be in game, not to zoom to which he did there, but more then the client can provide atm.

And they you should have a clear sight of your surrounding, and hopefully improve.

 

I know I had time where I got surprised by a tank hiding behind my minimap, and that's crap is huge.



jabster #148 Posted Yesterday, 02:56 PM

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View PostAngelofAwe, on 24 January 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:


Yes, unless you are a clock it's quite challenging. Especially when you have other things to think about.
I go through an entire checklist in my head when I get spotted.
Where do I need to take cover to be safe from tanks? Anything on the minimap? Is there arty? Can they shoot me where I am? Are they reloaded? Where did I get spotted from? Am I still in spotting view? Do I need to relocate? Where should I go? Ok have I been unlit yet? Act.
I don't sit there and count to 10. 

Personally I have to go with estimation based on 40k worth of battles, usually I use my own reload as a counter and add a few seconds to be safe. I don't have time to check the timer and wait 10s based on that either in the middle of a battle, too many other things demand attention at all times.
Having a 10s counter "ping" me would be a major advantage. 

Look at it like this, every extra second you have to hide because you don't know if your 10 seconds have passed is another second out of the battle.
Assume you get lit 5 times during the game in situations where you have to hide and you wait 3 seconds extra every time to be safe.
You've lost 15 seconds worth of being in the game and being effective.
Considering the average battle is what... 5 minutes? 300 seconds?
That could potentially be a 5% loss of potential so it's like removing vents on all your tanks. It matters even if it's minor. 

Obviously none of the above are exact numbers, just an example of how it can be an advantage to know.


I’m not sure I’d say it’s a major advantage but I would put it the category of simple mods to be implemented so WG should either do that  or ban it.



Spurtung #149 Posted Yesterday, 03:37 PM

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View PostFlicka, on 24 January 2020 - 12:42 PM, said:

Ok, then I have to ask, what do you think is considered as un "unfair advantage"?

 

Since the term is so loose that it only depends on the person using it, and only the other person opinion can make something unfair.

You can see that in everything these days, from sport, politics...hell, everything.

 

What I was trying to say is that players will and should use everything they deem as fair to improve their gameplay. And I do believe that making the game run smooth is as crucial as having some mod. How you fail to see the correlation there is kinda your problem. Like the same problem that you seem to think most of the posts on these forums are dumb lately, but hell, thats only an opinion right?

 

As for the server reticle, well that's something personal again, as I like to know where I am actually aiming. I do have ping that's mostly around 35, but I still use it because it provides info that helps me. Now, if somebody playing on a ping of 80, and a bit unstable, has that turned off, which it is by default, I would say they are in a disadvantage.

 

I can do this in pictures too, if that would be easier for you to understand.

 

Lets say I do not understand how you do not understand how people look at advantages, and especially what they deem is unfair.

 

And the part of WG saying a mod is unfair, and banned, that is something we will never know what actually happens there.

Some were blatantly not cool, and got banned right away, some live in a state of limbo, and some...well, you never ever know they exist until somebody mentions it.

Like the battle hits mode, how many times did I go into replays to see what the hell I hit..and now, I can know instantly after the battle, and I learn stuff.

 

Imagine learning...and gaining knowledge...so you can "understand" stuff...just imagine

 

If, like I have experienced (by having it tested against me in a training room), you are able to tell when my reload is done, it's clear that is an unfair disadvantage, right?

More, it opens to discussion how the hell is information going through the client if someone that doesn't know my crew, equipment or consumables can count down as my reload approaches 0 as if it's me seeing it.

 

I'm sure you've seen something like "M44 hit me, it will reload in about 14.56s." being automatically written in team chat, no?

 

Another thing that I consider an unfair advantage is showing the last HP of tanks. Or which tanks haven't been spotted yet.

 

 

All those are undoubtedly under their previous rule of thumb, in what mods were concerned, that basically translates into "if you think it's giving you an unfair advantage, you're putting yourself at risk".

Now they have a mod portal.

In my opinion, the mods there should be visual, like crosshairs, and garage oriented, like clock, list of tanks, session stats, all those are fine.

Everything that can be used directly in the game, in any form, in the means of extra information, should either be incorporated into the game or banned. Mod makers could propose them to WG just like they have to do now, and they'd have the final say.

 

As it is, there's too much of a grey area still, and 'unfair advantage' is not an universal concept. Even WG used to specifically allow gun directions to be displayed but "only on the minimap" to later back away from that and simply ban it. So, even WG can't really make up their minds about what's fair and what's not...



Flicka #150 Posted Yesterday, 03:51 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 24 January 2020 - 03:37 PM, said:

 

If, like I have experienced (by having it tested against me in a training room), you are able to tell when my reload is done, it's clear that is an unfair disadvantage, right?

More, it opens to discussion how the hell is information going through the client if someone that doesn't know my crew, equipment or consumables can count down as my reload approaches 0 as if it's me seeing it.

 

I'm sure you've seen something like "M44 hit me, it will reload in about 14.56s." being automatically written in team chat, no?

 

Another thing that I consider an unfair advantage is showing the last HP of tanks. Or which tanks haven't been spotted yet.

 

 

All those are undoubtedly under their previous rule of thumb, in what mods were concerned, that basically translates into "if you think it's giving you an unfair advantage, you're putting yourself at risk".

Now they have a mod portal.

In my opinion, the mods there should be visual, like crosshairs, and garage oriented, like clock, list of tanks, session stats, all those are fine.

Everything that can be used directly in the game, in any form, in the means of extra information, should either be incorporated into the game or banned. Mod makers could propose them to WG just like they have to do now, and they'd have the final say.

 

As it is, there's too much of a grey area still, and 'unfair advantage' is not an universal concept. Even WG used to specifically allow gun directions to be displayed but "only on the minimap" to later back away from that and simply ban it. So, even WG can't really make up their minds about what's fair and what's not...


Yep, loads of grey area, with too many mods for a game.

The list on Aslain mod pack, holy crap, soo many to do soo much stuff, most of it unnecessary, but alot of it quite unfair.

Fom reload times, shell travel times, HP display from unseen enemies (no idea how that is supposed to work), and not to even start on skins with modules painted on.

 

I have tried recently using the total HP mod, must say it is nice to know that even when you have less tanks that you got more HP to play with, and gives some hope to go on in a battle.

But then again, it does give me the advantage of knowing that. Imagine adding all the hp you somehow managed to memorize to do that during a match.

So, having my doubts about using it.

 

The best mod, having a clock in he garage, realizing you played for too long and just buggering off.

 



Venom7000 #151 Posted Yesterday, 10:00 PM

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Hello guys,

  1. Yes Circon did complain for awhile when we switched to HD because the entire Aslain mod pack did not work. He didn't cry the whole time granted. But he was irritated nonetheless.
     
  2. Can he and players like him still be good without this mod? A: absolutely YES. No question. But the mod does give you a chance to be risky more than a regular player because you get more info that others.

    (most prominent example is on the Westfield HT line. If you zoom out far enough you can see who is aiming where and whether you can peak over the ridge quickly and punish someone without return fire). Try that without the mod and call me how fast were you sent to the garage.
     
  3. Like InFlames90 says, good players can utilise it. But I would also argue that even an average player can benefit from more info. What separates good and bad player is knowing where this mod will be 100% best to use.
     
  4. Having programmable mods in online game is dumb to begin with (especially a competitive one as WOT). It's one thing to have a mod that allows you to rearrange your UI to fit your preference (map on the left health on the right, ammo at the top ..etc).

    BUT what separates not only good player and bad player, but also someone who pays attention and someone who is oblivious is skill + experience (battle count). I feel like giving a dumbass who even after 22k battles still doesn't understand how fast Lefh18b2 shoots, when to shoot HE a handicap in form of reload or shell drop off mod is bad for the game. Mods that give handicap or straight up adv are not good for competitive online game.
     
  5. "stuck in zoom out" well maybe dont scroll up to the moon. Just enough for you to see the enemy (which btw you should not be able to see in the first place). Also if he is suddenly charging you ... how is this a surprise to you? You literally make yourself invulnerable to corner, ridge ambush with this mod. Start scrolling down fast... or Im sure that you would like a mod where you can just press a button to return you to the default zoom asap.

 


Edited by Venom7000, Yesterday, 10:03 PM.


Venom7000 #152 Posted Yesterday, 10:11 PM

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View PostFlicka, on 24 January 2020 - 10:49 AM, said:

For the claustrophobic feeling, once you are able to view your tank in 3rd person, that is gone and you are playing a game.

 


Yes mate. But there is a difference between:

  1. racing games (Drit, GT SPORT, F1) cockpit view/camera 
  2. what default 3rd person zoom out in WOT is
  3. and the total absurdity (some call it free cam/spectator heights/camera) of the ZOOM OUT mod view.


If everyone had this mod. The game would be basically turned in to Command & Conquer Generals/Red Alert strategy game. 



CmdRatScabies #153 Posted Yesterday, 10:33 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 24 January 2020 - 03:37 PM, said:

As it is, there's too much of a grey area still, and 'unfair advantage' is not an universal concept. Even WG used to specifically allow gun directions to be displayed but "only on the minimap" to later back away from that and simply ban it. So, even WG can't really make up their minds about what's fair and what's not...

If it's on the portal then it's considered fair, simples.  Really isn't possible to define a rule that individuals need to decide what's fair and not.  You can lobby for WG to change their mind but until then anything that's on the portal is okay.

21:35 Added after 1 minute

View PostVenom7000, on 24 January 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

  1. and the total absurdity (some call it free cam/spectator heights/camera) of the ZOOM OUT mod view.

Free cam is something different.  Banned except when used in replays but not really useful in Randoms anyway.



NipplesTheClown #154 Posted Today, 12:19 AM

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in a competitive game all mods should be illegal. period. 

Pansenmann #155 Posted Today, 12:49 AM

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View PostVenom7000, on 24 November 2019 - 12:08 AM, said:

How is this mod even legal to have? (see attachment first before continuing to read)

 

 

I use different Zoom in/out settings

and a better crosshair since 2012

 

as long as the camera is attached to the tank I see no issue

23:50 Added after 0 minute

View PostNipplesTheClown, on 25 January 2020 - 12:19 AM, said:

in a competitive game all mods should be illegal. period. 

 

I am glad there is no esports in WoT :)



NipplesTheClown #156 Posted Today, 01:18 AM

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View PostPansenmann, on 25 January 2020 - 12:49 AM, said:

 

I use different Zoom in/out settings

and a better crosshair since 2012

 

as long as the camera is attached to the tank I see no issue

23:50 Added after 0 minute

 

I am glad there is no esports in WoT :)

no balloon for you :izmena:



Gremlin182 #157 Posted Today, 01:28 AM

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The game is different now because of mods as wargaming added many of them to the game.

Depends really what the mod does making the game look different is fine,

Changing the garage and so on.

 

That's why wargaming grade them into I think 3 types.

1 those that make no difference to the battles and give no advantage.

2 those that add to the game and make it better in some way.

3 those that break the game and are banned.

 

I have known games that have kept going for years and years because of mods even after the maker has abandoned them they keep going.

 



Venom7000 #158 Posted Today, 01:38 PM

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View PostGremlin182, on 25 January 2020 - 01:28 AM, said:

The game is different now because of mods as wargaming added many of them to the game.

Depends really what the mod does making the game look different is fine,

Changing the garage and so on.

 

That's why wargaming grade them into I think 3 types.

1 those that make no difference to the battles and give no advantage.

2 those that add to the game and make it better in some way.

3 those that break the game and are banned.

 

I have known games that have kept going for years and years because of mods even after the maker has abandoned them they keep going.

 

Great points.
Mods are good. Games like Fallout, Skyrim are still alive and better because of them. But to have mods in online game makes no sense. 
Again mods that allow for UI customisation of the already available information (not adding more). Mods that allow you to re-arrange the layout for example. Those are ok.

Hell, if you want a mod that gives you Goofys "hugh hugh" laugh every time you pen or ammorack go for it. (now I want that mod :D). If you want a mod that will make your tank look like a ice cream van (only for you though). Go for it. Im ok with those mods. :)

12:40 Added after 1 minute

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 24 January 2020 - 10:33 PM, said:21:35 Added after 1 minute

Free cam is something different.  Banned except when used in replays but not really useful in Randoms anyway.


I meant free cam/spectator cam levels of camera height (how high can you zoom out). Not the ability to free roam with it outside of your tank during the game. :)

12:43 Added after 4 minute
I also find it very strange that ZERO of WG devs, community contributors replied to this monster size thread now (with over 8400 views). But they are more than happy to reply, comment or chime in for far less trivial things.

WG sore spot?

Edited by Venom7000, Today, 01:51 PM.


gitgud_cannot #159 Posted Today, 02:45 PM

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WG devs on EU server? LOL, you are a special guy or just pretending ?





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