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Anonymizer- good idea?


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Maaaaaad #1 Posted 25 November 2019 - 09:19 PM

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For the first five years playing this game I used a vanilla client and was really against xvm because it does give an advantage to the player using it by seeing others stats in game. But since two years now I've been using it and it has really improved my game. The in garage extras it brings are excellent and the in battle info is really helpful. Now whenever a new game version comes out and before the latest version of xvm is available I find the game much less enjoyable and rather than spend an evening playing I only play a few games because they for me  are less exciting. It is a challenge when you see many good players in an enemy team and if I end up 1v1 with a unicum I have a chance to try and outplay them, that is exciting. When you meet them the adrenaline rushes as you know you are up against a great player. That level of adrenaline rush will be absent if everyone is anonymous and to find out after the game it was a unicum who destroyed your tank would be ....well...so what...the game is over. I didn't get excited, it was just another anonymous tank.

 

 I'm only a green player so my contribution is ok I guess in battle sometimes. If I see a flank held by less experienced players I will go help that flank as they will probably need support and these sorts of actions make a difference. If I see a very good enemy player pushing on a flank I will try and help that flank in the same way. At the start of battle seeing the strengths and weakness in the teams and what tanks they are playing gives me a chance to make a battle plan which may or may not work but at least I know what we face as a team which is really useful and increases the fun of the game for me.

 

The abuse of less skilled players will continue regardless of being anonymous. When I've seen it in game it's because the player is not helping the team. So an anonymous player shooting buildings at the rear of a battle or someone hiding all game behind a rock in the corner driving a scout will still get abused by the team anonymous or not. Perhaps take away all the battle messages with the exception of platoon messages is the only way to stop the abusive behaviour. Just making players anonymous will make little difference.

 

Focus of better players. Well from my experience most of the good and very good players in the game are using xvm themselves. Nearly all of them. XVM shows you who else is using the mod in game. If I understand it correctly then when using this anonymizer it will not work alongside xvm? So players will have a choice  between being anonymous or using xvm? Or will you be able to hide your stats but still be able to see others who are not anonymous? I'm sure some focus happens but is it really that bad? Or is is supposed focus because arty just hit you so it must be right? I get hit all the time by arty but that is part of the game meta with usually three arties per game especially if you are pushing a flank. The fact that the better players still maintain their good stats is reasoned against focus as they would start getting worse if the enemy focused just on them ? I don't see it. What the anonymizer will do is give unicums platoons free reign to dominate games even more without any of the enemy players  knowing the threat they face so I guess it will be supported by the better players so they can dominate more as it is them who have less to fear from an anonymous battlefield as they have faith in their platoon's ability to carry the game regardless.

 

The new players in the game will probably not even find the anonymizer button for a long while into their game experience. When starting out in this game there is so much to learn and to deal with before small setting changes. I remember my oh moment when after a few thousand casual battles realised what six sense skill actually did !  Also it's great to see friends in battle on either team and if they are in your team then you can say hello and if on enemy you can chat afterwards about your battle with each other. I've done that many times and with some of the forum regulars also. Who is going to bother to check all the real names of players after a game before starting a new one?

 

I believe this anonymizer will reduce my in game pleasure and will lead me to playing less games eventually. I like the excitement of trying to fend off a better enemy team or carry a poor team to victory. if I can and xvm helps me do it just that by letting me know whats in store this game then that is a positive thing. Perhaps the answer is to make xvm part of the game client so everyone is using it . It would probably improve every players game and be an eye opener for those that have never tried it. 



Balc0ra #2 Posted 25 November 2019 - 09:27 PM

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View PostMaaaaaad, on 25 November 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

I believe this anonymizer will reduce my in game pleasure and will lead me to playing less games eventually. I like the excitement of trying to fend off a better enemy team or carry a poor team to victory. if I can and xvm helps me do it just that by letting me know whats in store this game then that is a positive thing. Perhaps the answer is to make xvm part of the game client so everyone is using it . It would probably improve every players game and be an eye opener for those that have never tried it. 

 

It's off by default by the looks of it. So not every single one will have it on. Some will still like to show their WN8, others less so. I have no doubt that you will know how many tomatoes each team has even with it on for the most part.

 

Still, it's not a bad idea. It will help reduce toxicity in terms of bad players getting harassed in chat. And it will shift the focus away from just the good players. As how many times have you lost as 5 guns on your team yoloed the unicorn to "take him out" only to get killed instantly by the 7 hidden guns behind him? Or if they did see a streamer and yoloed him to get the kill? If they don't know he is there, they won't yolo him.

 

 



Alukat123 #3 Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:20 PM

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View PostMaaaaaad, on 25 November 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

 

Focus of better players. Well from my experience most of the good and very good players in the game are using xvm themselves. Nearly all of them. XVM shows you who else is using the mod in game. If I understand it correctly then when using this anonymizer it will not work alongside xvm? So players will have a choice  between being anonymous or using xvm? Or will you be able to hide your stats but still be able to see others who are not anonymous? I'm sure some focus happens but is it really that bad? Or is is supposed focus because arty just hit you so it must be right? I get hit all the time by arty but that is part of the game meta with usually three arties per game especially if you are pushing a flank. The fact that the better players still maintain their good stats is reasoned against focus as they would start getting worse if the enemy focused just on them ? I don't see it. What the anonymizer will do is give unicums platoons free reign to dominate games even more without any of the enemy players  knowing the threat they face so I guess it will be supported by the better players so they can dominate more as it is them who have less to fear from an anonymous battlefield as they have faith in their platoon's ability to carry the game regardless.

 

The new players in the game will probably not even find the anonymizer button for a long while into their game experience. When starting out in this game there is so much to learn and to deal with before small setting changes. I remember my oh moment when after a few thousand casual battles realised what six sense skill actually did !  Also it's great to see friends in battle on either team and if they are in your team then you can say hello and if on enemy you can chat afterwards about your battle with each other. I've done that many times and with some of the forum regulars also. Who is going to bother to check all the real names of players after a game before starting a new one?

 

I believe this anonymizer will reduce my in game pleasure and will lead me to playing less games eventually. I like the excitement of trying to fend off a better enemy team or carry a poor team to victory. if I can and xvm helps me do it just that by letting me know whats in store this game then that is a positive thing. Perhaps the answer is to make xvm part of the game client so everyone is using it . It would probably improve every players game and be an eye opener for those that have never tried it. 

 

Arty-focus is a thing:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/97k540/the_xvm_arty_focus_experiment/

 

about the platoon thing:

i don't use XVM, if i see a platoon of three i play accordingly, like always having guns behind me who can support me. I assume that everyone is good untill i see that they're bad throughout the battle.

 

if the anonymizer puts an end to:

- during countdown "gg loss", "gg bot team" and that person suiciding within 30 seconds of the battle

- ignore the most dangerous tank of the enemy team, because XVM tells them a red player drives it

- people retreating from a 3 vs. 1, because XVM tells them that one enemy is a unikum

- that teammates get abandoned because XVM tells they red-yellow

- people focussing on certain players (green/blue/purples), when it would just be better to ignore those for now

- half of the team getting yoloed away by enemy in 2-3 minutes, because XVM tells the enemy they're bad, which takes time away for the good players of the team to take out some enemies

- people getting overconfident because they see the own team has the better player.. basically those "ez win" during countdown in chat and 3-4 minutes later the game has been lost 3:15, because everyone started playing like stupid.

 

then the anonymizer will increase my in game pleasure for sure.

If there's not critical mass of anonymizer users to render XVM useless, then WG should just blacklist the XVM ingame stats part.


Edited by Alukat123, 25 November 2019 - 10:25 PM.


Maaaaaad #4 Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:33 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 25 November 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

It's off by default by the looks of it. So not every single one will have it on. Some will still like to show their WN8, others less so. I have no doubt that you will know how many tomatoes each team has even with it on for the most part.

 

Still, it's not a bad idea. It will help reduce toxicity in terms of bad players getting harassed in chat. And it will shift the focus away from just the good players. As how many times have you lost as 5 guns on your team yoloed the unicorn to "take him out" only to get killed instantly by the 7 hidden guns behind him? Or if they did see a streamer and yoloed him to get the kill? If they don't know he is there, they won't yolo him.

 

 

 

The only way to reduce toxic chat is to remove chat completely. Anonymizer or not players will still be abusive to each other in chat because of bad play. Anonymizer is not the antidote to abuse it's taking away foresight to players before a battle. Like I said - xvm should be in the game client for everyone.



Maaaaaad #5 Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:52 PM

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View PostAlukat123, on 25 November 2019 - 09:20 PM, said:

 

Arty-focus is a thing:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/97k540/the_xvm_arty_focus_experiment/

 

about the platoon thing:

i don't use XVM, if i see a platoon of three i play accordingly, like always having guns behind me who can support me. I assume that everyone is good untill i see that they're bad throughout the battle.

 

if the anonymizer puts an end to:

- during countdown "gg loss", "gg bot team" and that person suiciding within 30 seconds of the battle

- ignore the most dangerous tank of the enemy team, because XVM tells them a red player drives it

- people retreating from a 3 vs. 1, because XVM tells them that one enemy is a unikum

- that teammates get abandoned because XVM tells they red-yellow

- people focussing on certain players (green/blue/purples), when it would just be better to ignore those for now

- half of the team getting yoloed away by enemy in 2-3 minutes, because XVM tells the enemy they're bad, which takes time away for the good players of the team to take out some enemies

- people getting overconfident because they see the own team has the better player.. basically those "ez win" during countdown in chat and 3-4 minutes later the game has been lost 3:15, because everyone started playing like stupid.

 

then the anonymizer will increase my in game pleasure for sure.

If there's not critical mass of anonymizer users to render XVM useless, then WG should just blacklist the XVM ingame stats part.

 As I said take away all chat messages except between platoon players. That may even make it more likely that players platoon together just for the chat experience and that will bring people together and improve their game. Removing the chat to all team will take away the toxic abuse. How much of actual messages in game are useful to the team such as saying the Hp left on an enemy for instance? Not a lot. If it was just platoon chat it would be just as fun such as no more people saying this is a loss etc at start of game.

 

Regarding focus- I doubt that it has much effect accept making it more likely the focusing team will lose because of yoloing and the like. I really doubt focus is that much of a problem especially for good players, they probably do better in the long run as more targets are coming directly at them to farm. It will hide unicums platoons who will do even better in game because of this anonymizer so more easy kills for them as they strom over the battlefield. So the very good players are for sure looking forward to this addition I'm not surprised. The use for less good players is minimal in reality, the abuse will still happen when they don't play well regardless of their name.

 

The anonymizer is just an aid to the top players so they can continue to dominate in anonymity. In real life that is how it works, If you were a fighter pilot with ten hours on a Spitfire you wouldn't know that Adolf Galland was in the plane coming at you in battle but this is a game and I believe we need to see the skills of the players like in most other games. It helps the experience and enjoyment and if xvm was in the client for everyone that would be perfect.  

 

 



Alukat123 #6 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:01 PM

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View PostMaaaaaad, on 25 November 2019 - 10:52 PM, said:

 As I said take away all chat messages except between platoon players. 

 

No, i need the chat to communicate with my teammembers.

 

Also taking away the chat won't remove toxic behaviour caused by XVM.. someone who doesn't like the odds XVM tells them will still suicide, that person just won't be able to announce it in chat anymore. Same goes with the other stuff.

XVM is the issue, not the chat function.


Edited by Alukat123, 25 November 2019 - 11:02 PM.


AXIS_OF_RESISTANCE #7 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:03 PM

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Ohh that is so nice thx for the post OP top tier content :popcorn:.

 



Maaaaaad #8 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:16 PM

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View PostAlukat123, on 25 November 2019 - 10:01 PM, said:

 

No, i need the chat to communicate with my teammembers.

 

Also taking away the chat won't remove toxic behaviour caused by XVM.. someone who doesn't like the odds XVM tells them will still suicide, that person just won't be able to announce it in chat anymore. Same goes with the other stuff.

XVM is the issue, not the chat function.

 

People suiciding because of xvm is so rare it's almost a myth. I've played nearly 65k battles and could count the times I've seen it on a couple of hands. Effectively rendering xvm useless is the wrong answer. It helps the vast majority of users to play better which is why it should be available in the game client for everyone. Bots are a far greater problem for losing team members whatever the reasons such as their game crashing- I see that in many games with players sat their at the spawn point all battle- I played a dozen games today and two of them had frozen players for an example. That is a real problem, not the once in 10,000 games when an idiot drives off a cliff at the start.

 

With chat I agree- I like to give enemy positions and HP etc to my team but if making chat only available inside a platoon stops the abuse it is a price worth paying. You could still click the map or draw lines ( if you have xvm) to support the whole team.



Alukat123 #9 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:27 PM

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View PostMaaaaaad, on 25 November 2019 - 11:16 PM, said:

 

People suiciding because of xvm is so rare it's almost a myth. I've played nearly 65k battles and could count the times I've seen it on a couple of hands. 

 

Then you got either very lucky or are too busy with your XVM analysis to recognize such stuff... I'm seeing stuff like i've listed at least once per 50 battles. It's a real pita..


Edited by Alukat123, 25 November 2019 - 11:31 PM.


Maaaaaad #10 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:37 PM

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View PostAlukat123, on 25 November 2019 - 10:27 PM, said:

 

Then you got either very lucky or are too busy with your XVM analysis to recognize such stuff... I'm seeing stuff like i've listed almost every day. It's a real pita..

 

Xvm is not the demon you think it is. I used to get angry at players using it thinking it was an unfair advantage but now I've tried it, I love it as it makes me a better player. You should try it if you haven't done so before it disappears completely. I used to blame xvm for all sorts, it really isn't the problem, toxic players are just that, toxic players. They will use xvm for their excuse to suicide, without xvm they would probably be the ones driving off a cliff or drowning  half way through a losing battle because their team was losing anyway and probably abusing others in chat as they did so. Enemy arty drowning themselves at the end of a battle is more of a regular problem in my opinion.



Alukat123 #11 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:42 PM

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View PostMaaaaaad, on 25 November 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

 

Xvm is not the demon you think it is. 

 

it creates toxic behaviour in 2-10% of the games, it is the demon i think it is.


Edited by Alukat123, 25 November 2019 - 11:42 PM.


Maaaaaad #12 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:59 PM

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View PostAlukat123, on 25 November 2019 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

it creates toxic behaviour in 2-10% of the games, it is the demon i think it is.

 

Well we will have to agree to differ on that I guess. All I can say is- If you've not tried it before- then give it a go- It really does make the game more enjoyable in my opinion and that out- weighs the toxicity even if that is 2-10 % in your view. I think it is well into the lower percentage in reality.  But it doesn't matter. WG appear intent on introducing this new version of the game so we will have to live with it or not. I don't think it will make any difference myself regarding toxic behaviour but it will certainly make me play less WOT games and I will be looking for new adventures this Christmas from all the other games on offer. It is what it is.

 

Have fun on the battlefield Alukat123.



jack_timber #13 Posted 26 November 2019 - 12:27 AM

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Not particularly fussed either way TBH. Don't use XVM or usually chat to my team only here for the fun. And great fun it is:) 

Stevies_Team #14 Posted 26 November 2019 - 12:35 AM

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Our WoT Stalkers are devastated



thetartanbaron #15 Posted 26 November 2019 - 12:37 AM

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People suiciding because of xvm is so rare it's almost a myth.

 Really? Happens to me quite frequently. Had one idiot do that to one of my teams a couple of days ago. Could be these XVM jockeys see you showing up in a nice blue in the team list and think they have a chance with you in the team so keep playing.

 

Even if they don't suicide the "thanks for crap MMing again" or "another bot team" comments at the start of the battle can affect other players. Personally I tell them to STFU. At least half the time their battle predictions turn out to be wrong.

 

Frankly after a few thousand battles you don't meed XVM to tell you your team are a bunch of crayon chewers. You can tell that in the first 30 secs from how they are deploying or more correctly how they are not deploying on the battlefield and how they are driving, or not driving their vehicles.

 

The anonymiser is a half-assed so-called solution from Wargaming because they didn't have the cohones to block pre- and in-battle XVM properly. I just hope enough players use it so that XVM becomes useless.

 



Maaaaaad #16 Posted 26 November 2019 - 01:12 AM

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View Postthetartanbaron, on 25 November 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

 Really? Happens to me quite frequently. Had one idiot do that to one of my teams a couple of days ago. Could be these XVM jockeys see you showing up in a nice blue in the team list and think they have a chance with you in the team so keep playing.

 

Even if they don't suicide the "thanks for crap MMing again" or "another bot team" comments at the start of the battle can affect other players. Personally I tell them to STFU. At least half the time their battle predictions turn out to be wrong.

 

Frankly after a few thousand battles you don't meed XVM to tell you your team are a bunch of crayon chewers. You can tell that in the first 30 secs from how they are deploying or more correctly how they are not deploying on the battlefield and how they are driving, or not driving their vehicles.

 

The anonymiser is a half-assed so-called solution from Wargaming because they didn't have the cohones to block pre- and in-battle XVM properly. I just hope enough players use it so that XVM becomes useless.

 

 

Have you actually tried xvm out? Toxic players will still be in the game and doing toxic stuff regardless of the anonymizer. But the better players on either side will have less chance of predicting where they will be needed most to help their team. Meanwhile the very best players 'unicums' will make hay seaclubbing the enemy in 3 platoons like they do now anyway but with  even more success than they do now. I'm not surprised the very best players like the idea as they will be free to maximise their stats without any serious defences organised against them. The less good players will have the same game and the toxic players will just look at the players playing badly in their opinion to give out the abuse. I guess I will only play with the best platoon mates I can find and play anonymously for the best results in future. Rather than playing solo playing in a good platoon would future proof my chance of winning the battles much more while being anonymous. Don't expect this new version to protect poor players in any way. The game client should include xvm for everyone.



thetartanbaron #17 Posted 26 November 2019 - 01:29 AM

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Yes I've tried it a couple of times but each time it screwed my client up. So what if it tells me there's a platoon of 3 unicums on the enemy side there's sod all I'll be able to do about it anyway except stay out of their way for as long as possible. However me seeing three good players platooned up is a rarer occurrence than seeing XVM idiots drowning themselves. Its more likely to be three drunk window lickers platooned up.



kokorock #18 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:51 AM

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View Postthetartanbaron, on 26 November 2019 - 01:29 AM, said:

Yes I've tried it a couple of times but each time it screwed my client up. So what if it tells me there's a platoon of 3 unicums on the enemy side there's sod all I'll be able to do about it anyway except stay out of their way for as long as possible. However me seeing three good players platooned up is a rarer occurrence than seeing XVM idiots drowning themselves. Its more likely to be three drunk window lickers platooned up.

that's just [edited]. a lot of times people mention crap mm is because they are bottom tier, lol. 
I like how you all just found a scapegout- xvm. and anonymizer will solve all your issues. bots will still be bots. they will still be picked on. not because of their xvm colour, but the way they play. 
there are bigger issues in this game than an imaginary evil masked as xvm



Maaaaaad #19 Posted 26 November 2019 - 05:11 AM

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View Postthetartanbaron, on 26 November 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

Yes I've tried it a couple of times but each time it screwed my client up. So what if it tells me there's a platoon of 3 unicums on the enemy side there's sod all I'll be able to do about it anyway except stay out of their way for as long as possible. However me seeing three good players platooned up is a rarer occurrence than seeing XVM idiots drowning themselves. Its more likely to be three drunk window lickers platooned up.

 

You seeing three good players in a platoon is rarer than seeing people drown themselves because of xvm??? How would you know three good players if you don't use xvm? I use it all the time and very often see many great players in platoon and seeing them in the stats gives a head up to helping the team as best I can for the win if they are in the enemy team. If you think it's more likely the platoons you see in game are window lickers as you call them then giving them no respect in game will be rather a bad idea I feel- the majority of players in platoons before the game starts ( not the in game made platoons) are usually the better players and I can see that fact born out by using xvm - (we are discussing toxic comments here and you wanting those comments to stop presumably so using toxic language yourself defeats your argument somewhat don't you think? you appear to be of the toxic non xvm user group with that language which goes against what you say calling xvm users toxic- the real story is there are toxic players in the game full stop- it's not a particular ten-plate for the majority of xvm users but an arguable percentage across the whole player base)  

 

Most players who make platoons with friends are generally the better players in the game and much more likely to be platooning as they want a greater chance to win the game and giving yourself two team mates who you can rely on helps in this greatly. Many of these platoons are players wanting to improve their enjoyment which usually involves winning more or improving their stats.Either way they do it as it's more fun to win for most people.

 

I will say it again- to end toxic comments make the only chat in game between platoon mates.and to make the game more enjoyable for everyone make xvm available in the game client for every player. Everyone can do what they like with the available stats then. At least you won't be playing blind and with chat disabled outside of platoons the game will be free of abusive chat.



Jumping_Turtle #20 Posted 26 November 2019 - 07:37 AM

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View Postthetartanbaron, on 26 November 2019 - 12:37 AM, said:

 Really? Happens to me quite frequently. Had one idiot do that to one of my teams a couple of days ago. 

 

 

Hardly see it. And when it happens nearly 50% of those who do it do not even use XVM. Just the same as with toxicity. A lot of the complainers and cursing people are not even using xvm. And most of the times they react to what people are doing, or not doing i a battle and hardly see any toxicity from the start just about stats.






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