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Should Derp tanks be saved?

HE Derp Sandbox Sand Box

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Poll: Should derp tanks be saved? (107 members have cast votes)

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Should HE shells continue to have penetration values?

  1. Yes (84 votes [78.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 78.50%

  2. No (23 votes [21.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.50%

Do HE penetration values need nerfing?

  1. Yes (36 votes [33.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.64%

  2. No (71 votes [66.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.36%

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will0hlep #1 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:38 PM

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It appears that WG are planning to roll out the proposed changes to HE (currently in the sandbox) to the full game (they have stuck with it for the latest round of testing). Now I personally find the Derp tanks to be alot of fun in game and i feel that after a hour or 2 of grinding stock tanks i want to play my Derp tanks to relax. When i am grinding other vehicles i don't see the enemy Derp tanks as an obstacle to my success and therefore don't personally see the need for this change to HE. But i want to know what public opinion is. Hence the question is...

(Please vote above as well as commenting below)

Edited by will0hlep, 27 November 2019 - 12:17 PM.


Rainbowkiss83 #2 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:40 PM

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HEAT and APCR gold spam...focus on this

Dava_117 #3 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:43 PM

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I would prefere if they leave HE mechanics unchanged, a part from the new tracing algorithm. But, if they really want to go on, I can accept the results of the last iteration as derp would yes lose the penetration capability, but will also be more reliable at damage dealing. 

Still I will miss the 1k damage rolls on Skorpions and SU-130PMs that KV-2 use to gift me. As one of the more satisfying thing in the game is to erase a bushcamper in one shell!



Homer_J #4 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:44 PM

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The first iteration with the very low damage was too much.

 

They increased the damage in the 2nd iteration but I think there will be some more balancing needed when it goes live.

 

Derps have never been great since the first round of HE nerf way back in 2011 or whenever it was.



Dava_117 #5 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:47 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 26 November 2019 - 03:44 PM, said:

The first iteration with the very low damage was too much.

 

They increased the damage in the 2nd iteration but I think there will be some more balancing needed when it goes live.

 

Derps have never been great since the first round of HE nerf way back in 2011 or whenever it was.

 

They did 3 iteration:

1)Really low damage

2)Really high damage

3)Avarage damage (similar to live server)

 

What nerf did they applied back in 2011?



will0hlep #6 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:48 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

I would prefere if they leave HE mechanics unchanged, a part from the new tracing algorithm. But, if they really want to go on, I can accept the results of the last iteration as derp would yes lose the penetration capability, but will also be more reliable at damage dealing. 

Still I will miss the 1k damage rolls on Skorpions and SU-130PMs that KV-2 use to gift me. As one of the more satisfying thing in the game is to erase a bushcamper in one shell!

 

See for me it was fun because it was unreliable, it's almost like opening presents at Christmas.

There are 2 equally likely yet unlikely and funny scenarios that i enjoy so much about derp tanks...
1) "Oh scorpion G, 50m away... aim gun... aiming... still aiming... fire... wat... i hit the gun 7 dmg... really gunner... reee"
2) "aaaaaaaaaahhhhh, {curse word of players choice}, that is a IS, fire randomly and reverse oh it penned... lol lol lol"



Balc0ra #7 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:48 PM

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Again, as someone made an exact same topic about this earlier today. WG did note after the first stage of testing that they will consider the impact it has on derps guns like the KV-2. But still test them in different forms to see the different outcomes and impacts. As that's what you do on sandbox. And then decide later when they have more data. They might be affected, or not at all. As now they just test based on caliber vs gun type.

 

View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2019 - 03:47 PM, said:

 

They did 3 iteration:

1)Really low damage

2)Really high damage

3)Avarage damage (similar to live server)

 

What nerf did they applied back in 2011?

 

Derps have been nerfed a few times. Even in late 2012 or early 2013. Then the 10.5 derps on mid-tier had 150mm HEAT shells to name one.

 

But they did the same with the first set of arty nerfs. Low stage then was 1mm HE pen and 320 alpha on the T92.

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 26 November 2019 - 03:50 PM.


Evilier_than_Skeletor #8 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:50 PM

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Leave HE pen as a mechanic, nerf the s*it out of M4, Pz IV4, KV-1, KV-2, FV4005 and 183 derp guns. And all the others like those I forgot to list.

Dava_117 #9 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:53 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 26 November 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

Derps have been nerfed a few times. Even in late 2012 or early 2013. Then the 10.5 derps on mid-tier had 150mm HEAT shells to name one.

 

But they did the same with the first set of arty nerfs. Low stage then was 1mm HE pen and 320 alpha on the T92.

 

 

So was not a direct nerf on HE. I actually remember some 200mm pen on the KV-2 AP from WoT classic indeed... Thanks mate. :)



will0hlep #10 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 26 November 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

Again, as someone made an exact same topic about this earlier today. WG did note after the first stage of testing that they will consider the impact it has on derps guns like the KV-2. But still test them in different forms to see the different outcomes and impacts. As that's what you do on sandbox. And then decide later when they have more data. They might be affected, or not at all. As now they just test based on caliber vs gun type.

 

I'd like a source for this please, but I imagine they probably have said this. The purpose of the thread is to find out what player opinions are of the derp tanks and, if derps are supported by the community, try to show WG that the community wants to keep the derp tanks.



Balc0ra #11 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

 

So was not a direct nerf on HE. I actually remember some 200mm pen on the KV-2 AP from WoT classic indeed... Thanks mate. :)

 

They were nasty before. I remember using the derp on the VK 30.02 grind for the Indien back in the day. As the 132 pen short 88 or the 150 pen 76 with no dpm was not ideal with the old MM. Thus 150 HEAT usually brought better games vs higher tiers.



Dava_117 #12 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View Postwill0hlep, on 26 November 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

 

See for me it was fun because it was unreliable, it's almost like opening presents at Christmas.

There are 2 equally likely yet unlikely and funny scenarios that i enjoy so much about derp tanks...
1) "Oh scorpion G, 50m away... aim gun... aiming... still aiming... fire... wat... i hit the gun 7 dmg... really gunner... reee"
2) "aaaaaaaaaahhhhh, {curse word of players choice}, that is a IS, fire randomly and reverse oh it penned... lol lol lol"

 

I actually like the calculated penetrations. Something like penetrating the side of an O-Ni, oneshotting an O-I.

I remember once I penetrated the side of a T34, setting him on fire and resulting in a cumulative 1.3k damage!

Or once I penned a SuperPershing for 1k damage and 4 out of 5 crewman killed. Or lastly, I still have a replay in wich I got shot by an invisible yet in obvious position KanJPz105. Stopped, aimed and lobbed a 152mm HE in his direction. Lately it was spotted running away with 10 HP left! :D



tajj7 #13 Posted 26 November 2019 - 03:58 PM

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I like the direction of the HE changes, 3rd iteration was still maybe a tad too high for my liking but better than live, less one shots, less non-pen damage, less weird module hits.

 

Most of those derp tanks are broken/borderline OP and them getting a slight nerf seems good for the game IMO, especially at lower tiers where they are a complete nonsense, along with tanks like the T67 and stats padders they make the experience for newer players horrible, peek a corner, get one shot by a KV-2/M4 derp/Hetzer etc. much fun......

 

They did say that those particular tanks balanced around HE would need special attention, plus there is all the HESH shells to look at. 


Edited by tajj7, 26 November 2019 - 03:59 PM.


will0hlep #14 Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:01 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2019 - 03:58 PM, said:

 

I actually like the calculated penetrations. Something like penetrating the side of an O-Ni, oneshotting an O-I.

I remember once I penetrated the side of a T34, setting him on fire and resulting in a cumulative 1.3k damage!

Or once I penned a SuperPershing for 1k damage and 4 out of 5 crewman killed. Or lastly, I still have a replay in wich I got shot by an invisible yet in obvious position KanJPz105. Stopped, aimed and lobbed a 152mm HE in his direction. Lately it was spotted running away with 10 HP left! :D


lol, I'd be interested in a copy of the replay.



Negativvv #15 Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:03 PM

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I've 3 marked the Pz4H in derp but I don't feel like playing it again. Likewise I have a KV-2 sat in my garage which I barely take out.

 

There's enough RNG without deliberately choosing a gun that trades on the RNG of the possibility of a total miss of an aimed shot to the same hit being a brutal one shot....

 

Anyway I say keep all the HE as it is. WG love curve ball changes don't they?



TungstenHitman #16 Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:03 PM

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I'm pretty sure if you go to the "HE Changes" thread on the announcements page that there's a comment left by a WG staff member outlining that it's highly unlikely there will be any changes to tanks which use a derp gun as the main weapon of choice such as KV-2. 

 

I don't work for WG but I can guarantee you the premium KV2 is not going to be changed in regards nerfing its derp. It's a good seller, it's a premium so I'm not even sure if they could do it without offering a full refund, that's a lot of refunds, not going to happen. 

 

The HE re-balance seems to be aimed not at derp guns but conventional style guns in which HE, in WG's eyes, shouldn't be the go-to ammo type so are basically removing it as an attractive option and make players use AP and aim at tanks weak spots instead of lazily auto-aim HE spamming the enemy tank. This of course, is rare that a player does that and normally results in such a player getting his backside kicked so I fail to see why any HE re-balance is needed apart from just one ammo type, HESH. Apart from HESH, there really isn't a problem imho and even at that, it's really only the FV4005 and the Deathstar. It's not a Charioteer hits you with HESH or a Conway and its totally broken the game so this is all really just down to 1 or 2 tier 10 TD's from the same family. 



Balc0ra #17 Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:05 PM

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View Postwill0hlep, on 26 November 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

I'd like a source for this please, but I imagine they probably have said this. The purpose of the thread is to find out what player opinions are of the derp tanks and, if derps are supported by the community, try to show WG that the community wants to keep the derp tanks.

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/724813-sandbox-high-explosive-shells-revision-join-the-testing/ A few lines down.

 

Block Quote

 

Since the start of testing, one of the most discussed points was the future of the vehicles that base their gameplay on using HE shells. For example, the KV-2, the FV4005 Stage II, the Japanese heavy tanks, some Premium vehicles, etc.

 

We're listening to your feedback and we will pay close attention to the precise reconfiguration of gameplay for such vehicles. However, the current test will check the system-scale changes in the mechanics of HE shells without reconfiguring particular vehicles. We will start tweaking certain vehicles individually after we finish this stage of testing and come to a common conclusion.

 

 As tbh... Derps guns are not the issue. HE spamming non derps like the KV-85 vs an O-I or an IS-7 vs a Type 5 because they can't pen them and they do a fair bit of damage each time is the issue. So that needs sorting in some way. But not by caliber like WG is testing atm. But rather by shell and gun. As the 15cm on the E100 and his HE shells is not the same as the 15cm derp on the Jap HT's.



ThorgrimBrenadim #18 Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:05 PM

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Voted yes to both but in reality higher tier HE leave alone lower tier make pen irrelevant the changes do not look so bad but would also leave derp guns as they where  just make HE a viable option for std guns to do low consistent damage to tanks they have close to zero chance to pen even with apcr.

Dava_117 #19 Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:07 PM

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View Postwill0hlep, on 26 November 2019 - 04:01 PM, said:


lol, I'd be interested in a copy of the replay.

 

Doubt it still work, since it's like 1-2 years old, but here it is.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...c04908b1ec48bee

 

Bonuses are the highcaliber medal and oneshots on Type58 and KV-85. :trollface:



Homer_J #20 Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:12 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2019 - 02:47 PM, said:

 

 

What nerf did they applied back in 2011?

 

Patch 0.7.0 they changed the way HE looks for the thinnest armour.  It used to be anywhere within a sphere, then they changed it so there had to be a straight line between the point of detonation and the armour.

 

So it used to be you could hit the front and do damage through the deck.


Edited by Homer_J, 26 November 2019 - 04:17 PM.






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