Jump to content


Should Derp tanks be saved?

HE Derp Sandbox Sand Box

  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

Poll: Should derp tanks be saved? (174 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Should HE shells continue to have penetration values?

  1. Yes (139 votes [79.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 79.89%

  2. No (35 votes [20.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.11%

Do HE penetration values need nerfing?

  1. Yes (48 votes [27.59%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.59%

  2. No (126 votes [72.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 72.41%

Vote Hide poll

will0hlep #41 Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:00 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11473 battles
  • 89
  • [TD_UK] TD_UK
  • Member since:
    10-19-2017

View PostLittleLara, on 27 November 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

What I'd like to see is still having 0mm pen on HE but keep the dmg as it is so you can still do more dmg to badly armoured vehicles. but they need to change the calculation so it doesn't do huge dmg when shooting thicc armour too.

 

Could you explain this a bit, as i don't understand what you mean but it sounds like an interesting suggestion.



tajj7 #42 Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:06 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29081 battles
  • 17,317
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostDava_117, on 27 November 2019 - 09:51 AM, said:

 

Just a small thing, the only tier 6 HT you can reliably oneshot is another KV-2 because of the 75mm flat plate on turret front.

To oneshot a T-150 or a Churchill7 you need a clear shot on the rear armour. M6 and KV-85 require to get the flat side. Same goes for the VK36 and O-I. ARL is similar to those too, but the 30mm turret sides gives you more chance, even at quite shallow angles.

From my 560 games in KV-2, the only tier 6 heavy tanks I managed to oneshot were KV-2, KV-85 and O-I and, in many instances, the O-I well deserved it for driving sideways in front of my gun from less than 10m away.

 

KV-2 pen on the 152mm HE is a 86mm, that can go as hig as 107mm, T-150 flat frontal plate is 90mm, M6 front hull is 90 to 100mm over pretty much all of it, most of the front of the KV-85 is about 60-85mm, all well withing penning range.

 

Yeh you need to hit the right spots but still, it doesn't need a high roll on damage, I'd imagine if 183 were one shoting IS-7s through the front with slightly below average damage rolls there would be a giant fuss, yet that is what the KV-2 is able to do,with a better reload. 



will0hlep #43 Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:13 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11473 battles
  • 89
  • [TD_UK] TD_UK
  • Member since:
    10-19-2017

View Posttajj7, on 27 November 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

 

KV-2 pen on the 152mm HE is a 86mm, that can go as hig as 107mm, T-150 flat frontal plate is 90mm, M6 front hull is 90 to 100mm over pretty much all of it, most of the front of the KV-85 is about 60-85mm, all well withing penning range.

 

Yeh you need to hit the right spots but still, it doesn't need a high roll on damage, I'd imagine if 183 were one shoting IS-7s through the front with slightly below average damage rolls there would be a giant fuss, yet that is what the KV-2 is able to do,with a better reload. 

 

Your forgetting that the armour on the front of these tanks is slopped and therefore effectively thicker than the stats say, or that the spots where it isn't are very tiny. https://tanks.gg/tank/t-150/model?cs=kv-2&cl=41211c&vm=live (link shows where you can pen T-150 with KV-2 HE, try looking at an angled T-150) for example if firing at a T-150 that has properly angled you can't pen it anywhere except the capola. If it's not angled then that is the player and the tutorials fault, but even without angling you only have a 13.3% chance to pen if you can hit the upper plate (the only part on the front you can pen) (and you've still got to hit that target which is maybe 1 in 3 or 1 in 4), plus if you miss (40% chance) he can get 2 shots into you dealing 600 dmg if he has the top gun, unless your shotting him at a distance of 100m in which case your odds of hitting him are probably lower than the 60%.


Edited by will0hlep, 27 November 2019 - 12:14 PM.


tajj7 #44 Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:14 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29081 battles
  • 17,317
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostTungstenHitman, on 27 November 2019 - 09:35 AM, said:

 

Accept that's not going to happen because the KV-2 r is premium which means WG won't touch it which also means the tech tree KV-2 won't be touched because it would make the KV-2r the most inexcusable pay to win tank in the history of the game far beyond anything that has ever been sold, so both tanks therefore will remain untouched. So you're just going to have to get over it unless WG decide to offer refunds to everyone that owns a KV-2r. Is that going to happen? I highly doubt they will, money is money at the end of the day and while I don't have the figures for just how many KV-2rs have been flogged worldwide, my guess is a hell of a lot and like I said, if you go to the HE re-balancing thread you will spot a response from a WG staff member in which they outline that tanks where it's really obvious that a derp gun as their primary weapon of choice, made that way by WG devs to be played with a derp gun, those tanks won't be changed in regards their HE pen etc so while your opinion on them is your opinion, always welcome to voice your opinion same as anyone, the reality is that most likely that KV-2 is still going to be the same no matter what happens.

 

 

Well we have precedent on this, the premium TDs never lost their camo after firing even after the tech tree TDs did, that created the E-25 problem, and WG still every so often sell that thing.

 

So WG could very easily to the global HE changes, nerd the KV-2 and leave the KV-2R as it is currently, and just sell it every so often as a clearly OP premium they use to put in boxes or whatever as an incentive. 

 

Plus you are forgetting the HP changes, not only is there the adjustment for the premium ammo, where standard ammo is getting an alpha buff and HP is getting buffed but premium ammo is staying the same alpha, but IIRC tiers 4-6 are getting HP buffs as well anyway, so I think after these changes tier 6 heavies have like 1300 hit points if not more.

 

So they could just leave the KV-2R exactly as it us currently, zero changes, and it wouldn't be changed from what the people bought, but it's gun would effectively be doing way less damage as everything else would have more HP.

 

Also WG are clearly fine with blatantly pay to win premiums, they have sold the Defender and LeFH multiple times. 

 



will0hlep #45 Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:15 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11473 battles
  • 89
  • [TD_UK] TD_UK
  • Member since:
    10-19-2017

View Posttajj7, on 27 November 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

Also WG are clearly fine with blatantly pay to win premiums, they have sold the Defender and LeFH multiple times. 

 

Another issue that needs addressing before derp tanks imo



tajj7 #46 Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:27 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 29081 battles
  • 17,317
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View Postwill0hlep, on 27 November 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

 

Your forgetting that the armour on the front of these tanks is slopped and therefore effectively thicker than the stats say, or that the spots where it isn't are very tiny. https://tanks.gg/tank/t-150/model?cs=kv-2&cl=41211c&vm=live (link shows where you can pen T-150 with KV-2 HE, try looking at an angled T-150) for example if firing at a T-150 that has properly angled you can't pen it anywhere except the capola. If it's not angled then that is the player and the tutorials fault, but even without angling you only have a 13.3% chance to pen if you can hit the upper plate (the only part on the front you can pen) (and you've still got to hit that target which is maybe 1 in 3 or 1 in 4), plus if you miss (40% chance) he can get 2 shots into you dealing 600 dmg if he has the top gun, unless your shotting him at a distance of 100m in which case your odds of hitting him are probably lower than the 60%.

 

I did forget normalisation yes to be fair, my bad, but still you can pen, you just need to be lucky, higher chances on the KV-85 and M6

 

View Postwill0hlep, on 27 November 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

 

Another issue that needs addressing before derp tanks imo

 

It's a different issue that unlikely they will ever solve, but derp guns are IMO very problematic and easier to solve. 



Dava_117 #47 Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:33 PM

    Major General

  • Moderator
  • 23514 battles
  • 5,971
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View Posttajj7, on 27 November 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

 

KV-2 pen on the 152mm HE is a 86mm, that can go as hig as 107mm, T-150 flat frontal plate is 90mm, M6 front hull is 90 to 100mm over pretty much all of it, most of the front of the KV-85 is about 60-85mm, all well withing penning range.

 

Yeh you need to hit the right spots but still, it doesn't need a high roll on damage, I'd imagine if 183 were one shoting IS-7s through the front with slightly below average damage rolls there would be a giant fuss, yet that is what the KV-2 is able to do,with a better reload. 

 

It is indeed inside the penetration range, but most of those frontal armour also have sloping you have to counter and still many need an high roll on pen, like the T-150 or M6. 

86 pen is really good to deal with some paperish tanks and some HTs, but just the few I named in my post can be oneshotted quite reliably and just KV-2 reliably from the front...



will0hlep #48 Posted 29 November 2019 - 02:42 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11473 battles
  • 89
  • [TD_UK] TD_UK
  • Member since:
    10-19-2017
So far, 60% don't want any change, 23% want to kill the derp, 17% want to nerf the derp

Robbie_T #49 Posted 30 November 2019 - 04:55 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 21467 battles
  • 1,240
  • [BBMM] BBMM
  • Member since:
    07-08-2016
They better not mess with the stats of my KV2R!

Youwantcheesewiththat #50 Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:40 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 6129 battles
  • 7
  • Member since:
    12-22-2016

View PostTungstenHitman, on 26 November 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure if you go to the "HE Changes" thread on the announcements page that there's a comment left by a WG staff member outlining that it's highly unlikely there will be any changes to tanks which use a derp gun as the main weapon of choice such as KV-2. 

 

I don't work for WG but I can guarantee you the premium KV2 is not going to be changed in regards nerfing its derp. It's a good seller, it's a premium so I'm not even sure if they could do it without offering a full refund, that's a lot of refunds, not going to happen. 

 

The HE re-balance seems to be aimed not at derp guns but conventional style guns in which HE, in WG's eyes, shouldn't be the go-to ammo type so are basically removing it as an attractive option and make players use AP and aim at tanks weak spots instead of lazily auto-aim HE spamming the enemy tank. This of course, is rare that a player does that and normally results in such a player getting his backside kicked so I fail to see why any HE re-balance is needed apart from just one ammo type, HESH. Apart from HESH, there really isn't a problem imho and even at that, it's really only the FV4005 and the Deathstar. It's not a Charioteer hits you with HESH or a Conway and its totally broken the game so this is all really just down to 1 or 2 tier 10 TD's from the same family. 

The Vk2601 players of old will laugh in your face.

Wg will nerf, remove whatever they want, iconic status of tank or not, fan fav or not. If the plebs scream hard enough, plebs get what they want.



MightyBalls_2 #51 Posted 30 November 2019 - 07:48 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 10353 battles
  • 200
  • [PTS] PTS
  • Member since:
    12-25-2014

HE needs to be nerfed because I am fed up of idiots who load HE just because of inexperience and hitting you for 100 each time and killing a crew member etc.

 

Its not the damage its the tomato idiots who actually see it has higher damage and think that is better ammo so load full HE and end up killing modules and crew members, yes you kill them and only take small amount of damage for doing so, but you end up coming away with 2 dead crew members and at least a broken gun because they just auto-aim and it hits your gun because of it.



MeetriX #52 Posted 30 November 2019 - 07:59 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 25173 battles
  • 4,242
  • [_ACE] _ACE
  • Member since:
    08-12-2012

View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2019 - 03:53 PM, said:

 

So was not a direct nerf on HE. I actually remember some 200mm pen on the KV-2 AP from WoT classic indeed... Thanks mate. :)

WG did some tweaking to HE.

I don't remember what was it. Probably some changes to blast radius/weak spot mechanism.

I remember people talking that HE did massive dmg to an open top tanks when their front plate got hit.



MeetriX #53 Posted 30 November 2019 - 08:11 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 25173 battles
  • 4,242
  • [_ACE] _ACE
  • Member since:
    08-12-2012

View PostBrinklyWollox, on 26 November 2019 - 04:57 PM, said:

Nerf the penetration but also introduce stun for larger calibre HE shells. No one likes being one-shot but there should be more reason to play something like the KV-2 than to hope its mobility (ha!) can get you into position for flanking and rear shots.

Interesting idea.

Makes trading bit harder, but let's be honest and admit that +99% hate stun mechanic.



Strappster #54 Posted 30 November 2019 - 10:38 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 28687 battles
  • 11,497
  • [BBMM] BBMM
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View PostMeetriX, on 30 November 2019 - 07:11 AM, said:

Interesting idea.

Makes trading bit harder, but let's be honest and admit that +99% hate stun mechanic.

 

I agree that lots of people don't like stun but then lots of people also don't like being one-shot whether it's by arty or a large calibre tank gun. If derps are nerfed to oblivion with nothing in return then who's going to bother playing them?

 

Maybe that's the point but it feels as though this change was proposed after a staff meeting where the agenda was to determine why new players quit at mid-tier levels. Can't be the ramping up of grind requirements, can't be getting steam-rolled by tier 8 opposition using multi-skilled crew in premium tanks while your crew don't even have their first skill, it must be because they hate getting derped!



kaneloon #55 Posted 30 November 2019 - 11:04 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 31729 battles
  • 4,177
  • [RHIN0] RHIN0
  • Member since:
    11-18-2011
Lol, gold ammo lovers want HE nerf, that's so funny.

Elleriel #56 Posted 01 December 2019 - 01:07 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 32685 battles
  • 137
  • [HAPY-] HAPY-
  • Member since:
    05-12-2012

View Postkaneloon, on 30 November 2019 - 10:04 AM, said:

Lol, gold ammo lovers want HE nerf, that's so funny.

Gold ammo users, use their credits to buy those ammos, so they need to play premium tanks to get more credits and WG sells premium tanks.

HE cost far less credits to use so it's not usefull for WG economy => break this.

 

All that WG wants it's more gold € / $ in their pocket, not listen what community wants. 



will0hlep #57 Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:59 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11473 battles
  • 89
  • [TD_UK] TD_UK
  • Member since:
    10-19-2017
Good to know my view of the game isn't a rare one

Edited by will0hlep, 02 December 2019 - 12:01 PM.


JCD3nton #58 Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:45 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 30118 battles
  • 324
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

HE shells are perfect. Don't mess with them.

Just fix derp guns and p2w shells.

Also arty should have AP shells and no stun instead.



will0hlep #59 Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:19 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11473 battles
  • 89
  • [TD_UK] TD_UK
  • Member since:
    10-19-2017

so 2 thirds of players like HE as it is
 

Thanks all for voting and commenting



Stevies_Team #60 Posted 01 January 2020 - 12:58 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 17109 battles
  • 1,821
  • Member since:
    07-14-2016

I'm holding off buying anything else ATM until we see what the heck they are going to do

 

There may be a whole bunch of tonks not worth getting after they change things







Also tagged with HE, Derp, Sandbox, Sand, Box

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users