Jump to content


Server down? (Server issues thread)


  • Please log in to reply
212 replies to this topic

Desyatnik_Pansy #201 Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:41 PM

    Bartender

  • Moderator
  • 18381 battles
  • 26,837
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View Postjabster, on 03 December 2019 - 07:38 PM, said:

Why should I come to an understanding when they are clearly in the wrong?

 

Frankly I could have worded it better, since I do agree with you. I was more thinking along the lines of assuming pecopad doesn't take it to PMs or simply move on from the thread, not to keep stirring the pot, since I don't think it's going to actually get anything worthwhile from doing it.



jabster #202 Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:47 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12760 battles
  • 26,207
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 03 December 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

 

Frankly I could have worded it better, since I do agree with you. I was more thinking along the lines of assuming pecopad doesn't take it to PMs or simply move on from the thread, not to keep stirring the pot, since I don't think it's going to actually get anything worthwhile from doing it.


How is it stirring the pot when they are clearly wrong. Do you not think it helps other players by pointing out what problems can occur with a server based game?


Edited by jabster, 03 December 2019 - 08:48 PM.


Bordhaw #203 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:36 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 15194 battles
  • 5,173
  • Member since:
    01-29-2017

View PostKalonianhydra, on 03 December 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

Yeah, and it's this kind of answers that will drive away players that actually pay for the game. If you are a free to play player it doesn't matter, but when you pay for the game it's a whole lot of a difference.
You should always work on having a stable environment. Regardless of players.

 

Try coming back in a week, when you've missed tank rewards, renegade marathon, unused premium days, daily missions, maybe then it will be all fixed.

 

#notasolution

 



Kalonianhydra #204 Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:45 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 29997 battles
  • 111
  • Member since:
    07-19-2013

View PostHomer_J, on 03 December 2019 - 01:53 PM, said:

 

If you think I am hinting that you or anyone else is making stuff up just because I ask for a pingplotter trace then you are mistaken.  I am just trying to help.

 

Most of the time it is not a server issue and as I have pointed out to you in the past, a pingplotter trace can diagnose an issue, such as one we had the other day when it was clear the guy was using a weak wifi signal.

 

On this and other rare occasions there has been a problem with the server.  But it soon becomes more than obvious when that is the case.

13:56 Added after 3 minute

 

I'm not sure how much experience you have with managing servers or IT infrastructure but no matter how hard you try there will be occasions where something happens which you are not expecting.

 

You only need to look at the track record of a certain large UK bank to see that even when you have a legal requirement to provide a certain service it is not always possible.



I have been working in the IT business for over 20 years, and at the moment I manage servers that needs to be running 24/7. Today banks are open around the clock on the internet.

So I do have quiet the experience.
And as a provider you have a responsibility to your customers, and that goes for all branches, if we are down it will cost us money.



Homer_J #205 Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:16 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Moderator
  • 32868 battles
  • 36,036
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostKalonianhydra, on 04 December 2019 - 06:45 AM, said:



 if we are down it will cost us money.

Same is true for WG, if people are not able to play then there is no incentive to spend money.  So you will understand that any outage is something they will take seriously.

 

I have worked in IT for over 30 years.  When I started we had a 90% availability target which we could struggle to meet but customers would not notice.  These days it's 99.9% and now customers will notice that 0.1% but still the unexpected happens like the main UK banking hub being out for 3 days.



Kalonianhydra #206 Posted 04 December 2019 - 10:57 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 29997 battles
  • 111
  • Member since:
    07-19-2013

View PostHomer_J, on 04 December 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

Same is true for WG, if people are not able to play then there is no incentive to spend money.  So you will understand that any outage is something they will take seriously.

 

I have worked in IT for over 30 years.  When I started we had a 90% availability target which we could struggle to meet but customers would not notice.  These days it's 99.9% and now customers will notice that 0.1% but still the unexpected happens like the main UK banking hub being out for 3 days.

But it will cost WG more if they just [edited] on us, and compensating with premium days or other things will not cost them anything and people might still be happy and spend money in their game.

 


Edited by Homer_J, 04 December 2019 - 11:51 AM.
language


PaddyOricK #207 Posted Yesterday, 09:02 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 30192 battles
  • 277
  • [NERVA] NERVA
  • Member since:
    04-22-2011
So, any news yet? When do I get my missing credits back?

ValkyrionX #208 Posted Yesterday, 09:17 PM

    Major

  • Moderator
  • 54360 battles
  • 2,678
  • [RDDT] RDDT
  • Member since:
    02-07-2015

View PostPaddyOricK, on 05 December 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

So, any news yet? When do I get my missing credits back?

 

It would also be interesting to remove the warnings to the clans that Sunday were playing the advances and were excluded from the server eu2



RaxipIx #209 Posted Today, 07:34 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 34100 battles
  • 1,284
  • [DID0] DID0
  • Member since:
    02-22-2016

I didn't get my xp on the E 50 back, neither the top gun the day after the crash. I actually think they rolled back the servers  5'ish  minutes and started the servers like that.

 

Didn't bother with support because i was 1 game away from  getting the top gun again, just saying .



Aleo #210 Posted Today, 09:06 AM

    Corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 32488 battles
  • 179
  • [QSF-C] QSF-C
  • Member since:
    12-12-2010
Last week or so the game has been choppy and lagging a lot. I reduced the lag a bit when I uninstalled Solos modpack, but the problems persisted (abeit on a lesser scale). I ran pingplotter and had some 11% packageloss. I'll do a further test later today since I didn't have time to do it yesterday. I'm connected via landline to my xDSL provider, so its not in-house problems.

Frostilicus #211 Posted Today, 09:41 AM

    Colonel

  • Clan Diplomat
  • 23657 battles
  • 3,566
  • [-ZNO-] -ZNO-
  • Member since:
    07-12-2011

View Postjabster, on 03 December 2019 - 07:47 PM, said:


How is it stirring the pot when they are clearly wrong. Do you not think it helps other players by pointing out what problems can occur with a server based game?

+1

Amazing how people were "so angry they were going to quit the game" - only to be found posting a thread about whether to use a booster or not after server recovery - clearly didn't actually quit the game ;)

Frankly, the hyperbole from some people following a simple crash is amazing. I'm not going to get my medals out, but over 30 years in Comms based IT on 99.99% available systems - I've seen systems crash for no discernable reason more times than I'd care to mention!

 

And yes, I just realised I was actually waving my medals around a bit there, apologies :)


Edited by Frostilicus, Today, 09:42 AM.


jabster #212 Posted Today, 11:05 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12760 battles
  • 26,207
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostFrostilicus, on 06 December 2019 - 08:41 AM, said:

+1

Amazing how people were "so angry they were going to quit the game" - only to be found posting a thread about whether to use a booster or not after server recovery - clearly didn't actually quit the game ;)

Frankly, the hyperbole from some people following a simple crash is amazing. I'm not going to get my medals out, but over 30 years in Comms based IT on 99.99% available systems - I've seen systems crash for no discernable reason more times than I'd care to mention!

 

And yes, I just realised I was actually waving my medals around a bit there, apologies :)


I understand how players can get annoyed when the servers go down but what I don’t understand is what can best be described as the ‘rage’ over not being able to play a game of pixel tanks for a short period of time. Some players act as though you’ve just shoot one of their close family members in front of them.



unhappy_bunny #213 Posted Today, 01:29 PM

    Colonel

  • Moderator
  • 20112 battles
  • 3,700
  • [-OC-] -OC-
  • Member since:
    08-01-2012

My 2p worth on the subject of servers, lag and how to identity possible causes.

 

1. Servers can be overloaded, but judging by the numbers online most evening when there are no reports of lag, WoT servers are not overloaded. 

2. Claims of "I can access other sites, Youtube, play other games etc" so it must be WoT, are inaccurate. While there is an off chance the WoT is suffering some sort of problem, unless it affects the vast majority of players, it is more likely the problem exists elsewhere.

3. WoT being a client/server model, means that the speed of data passing from the player to the server and back is critical. Any delay means the client is out of sync with the server and it is the server that determines everything. Therefore the client may show lag occurring, it may become jumpy or twitchy in the movement of tanks, shots may appear to miss, hit, disappear, and then opposite happens when the client and server re-sync. All very confusing for the player and understandably so.

4. Changing out servers is never instantaneous. Without seeing the WoT server farm it is impossible to say exactly how it all hangs together, but normally there would be a server running the game itself and number servers holding the various databases needed for the game. The common way for most companies is to have a back-up server waiting that is constantly updated, The main server drops out and the back-up server kicks in, in theory it should be seamless, but in reality, there is sometimes a small discrepancy as the back-up may be a few transaction behind the main one. That works for hardware issues with servers.

5. Servers can suffer unseen software issues. If the main server hits a SW problem (anything from a recent change to the game, to a OS problem) there needs to be a 3rd back-up server waiting with the previous game version on it. This usually require human intervention to switch it into use and inevitably there will be downtime, and a loss of data. This means that some battles, awards, transactions may be lost as the replacement game server will be out of sync with the database servers. This take time to resolve, and possibly some data may still be lost and then manual intervention is required.

6. And this is the biggie. The network itself. The network is everything from the player's PC through to the WG servers. This is the area that most problems associated with lag happen. Compared to the network, the servers are as stable as the Himalayas. From the player's PC there is a link to his ISP. This is usually, in the UK at least, either a Virgin Media site or a BT exchange. Most ISP's rent network capacity from BT, they don't have their own hubs. Depending upon how much they pay to BT determines the speed and capacity of the ISP's onward access to the Internet. Concatenation is a word often banded about. This is the number of users each ISP's router can handle simultaneously.The fewer users the better, but the more routers an ISP has to rent. VM/BT's exchanges then link to VM/BT regional hubs and then out into the Big World Wide Web, the Internet itself.  

7. The Internet part of the equation. And the WWW has not been designated the Wibbly Wobbly Web for nothing. This is the bit on many network diagrams represented to a large cloud. It is like trying to produce a map of every road in the world. It would look like one huge mess if you tried to draw it. The internet is basically the interconnection of all the hubs of all the ISP's also with specialist organisations (government, educational, research organisations). No one organisation owns the internet. No one organisation is responsible for the maintenance of it. There are companies that provide significant parts of the infrastructure, the links between hubs, some of the central hubs. And this is the area where most problems are likely to happen.

8. Data from the Player's PC is therefore sent to his ISP, around that internal network and out onto the internet, where it passes through many hubs in many countries until it reaches the WG ISP and the WoT servers, where it is processed, and a response from the WoT servers sent back to the Player's PC. Each packet of data has a maximum size limit, so one transaction could produce multiple packets, especially the responding packet from the server. These have to arrive in order, otherwise the data is just a muddle. They also have a timeout figure, which if exceeded results in the packet being dropped, and a request for a resend issued. With many games, where the client does most of or all of the calculations this is not a problem, except in exceptional circumstances, but for WoT where the server does all the calculations, and the client relies on that data to produce the visual the player sees, it is crucial that the data is transports as quickly and cleanly as possible. And most of the time this is the case. BUT, just like on a road network, one motorway pile-up, and everywhere gets gridlocked. A problem at a hub along the route the data packet takes can cause the packet to time out and need to be resent, it can require the packet to take another route, a longer route, a more congested route. The result? LAG. HIGH PING. 

9. This is where diagnostic tools are required. PINGPLOTTER is one of those tools. It sends data (a ping) and it analyses what happens to that ping (well lots of pings in reality). It produces a map of the route that data took, where it got slowed down, where it might have times out  and the packet is lost. That point of loss could be anywhere between the Player's PC and the WoT server, and these tools help to determine where that point is. They cannot fix the problem, but once identified the Player is in a position to pass the information on to those who can possibly help, their own ISP and WG. An ISP worth their salt, can often re-route data destined for a certain region via a different route. For instance, data from a BT (or associated ISP) going to WoT server in Germany, may normally be routed via a BT hub in Portsmouth, then across France, up into Belgium and Holland and then into Germany. If there is a problem along that route, the traffic can be re-routed via a hub in Dover, or Suffolk, via Holland or Denmark, and into Germany that way. Or, as in a recent case, there was a major network problem in Northern Germany, so data could be re-routed to go through France and Switzerland into Southern Germany.

 

So, while it is easy to blame WG it is not always their fault,

To say the like of PINGPLOTTER are of no use and provide nothing is also wrong.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, but you cannot describe how this all hangs together in just one or two lines.

 

 






9 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 9 guests, 0 anonymous users