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How is this not pointless...NERF damn EBR, it's ruining the game


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fwhaatpiraat #41 Posted 03 December 2019 - 11:42 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 03 December 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

 

No meme about it, if you go wandering off alone and let yourself get isolated then you've got no reason to complain if a wheelie catches you and does donuts around you while it eats you alive.


People just want to play the game. I'm not talking about tanks wandering off behind enemy lines, end game, etc.

 

A few days ago this happened, a Lynx on my team just rushed the valley straight into the 'arty pit', arta gone. Now ofcourse it's funny because it's arta and what not, but no, this is just pathetic.

 

Or me playing trying to play the ru251. Got shafted when doing this 'insanely risky maneuvre'. But "they have bad view range", right?

 

Or a game in my 121 on Prokhoroka. 1 EBR105 was spotted all the time and drove along the mid ridge all the time. I went middle to play the game at the start, but after 1 minute I knew that there was no place to play at all (there was 1 or 2 arta in the game), so I decided to drive back to B2 or so to just camp/sit and do nothing. Fun.

 

Edit: both examples with images happened right at the start of the battle.


Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 03 December 2019 - 11:45 AM.


Evilier_than_Skeletor #42 Posted 03 December 2019 - 11:54 AM

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The main issue I have with wheelies is how it often ruins all attempts of team play. Spare the jokes on this one, team play might not always be good, but usually there is an attempt to cover all flanks, man the main camping spots and a push to win a flank. Unless, of course, a wheelie comes rushing in 30 seconds in to the game. Forget everything else, must stop to shoot the wheelie. 2 minutes in map control is lost, 3 minutes in the match is lost and 5 minutes in it's back to garage.

 

Then there is also how many "rules" have been broken to make these little buggers work at all:

Tall tank: good view range, bad camo. Well, no. Better camo than on smaller tanks.

Small caliber gun: bad he pen. Well, no. Why wouldn't they use these superior shells on other tanks too?

Turret that rotates much faster than on any other tank. What's the idea here... Better bearings? Additional grease? Blood magic?

Improved autoaim on these tanks only.

Hit the tracks, tank stops. Well, no.



Ogruls #43 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:01 PM

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Wheeled tanks make fun for maybe  2 players out of 30 each game IMHO. Totally unrealistic performance from them, if you drove them like that in the real world your crew would be injured inside the vehicle with being thrown about & axles, suspensions would be smashed in minutes. Tracked vehicles go where wheeled ones can not in the real world. Since when was rubber stronger than steel anyway? A jump the Shark moment their introduction was. Just have to live with them.

 



molan1976 #44 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:19 PM

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View PostOnly_Slightly_Bent, on 02 December 2019 - 11:16 PM, said:

I find that it's the player-base which is ruining the game, not any particular tank.

Try playing them, then you'll realise that your description of their abilities is, at best, hyperbole, at worst, fiction.

 

It is true the real issues for specialised tanks are, they can really shine in good hands while still suck in bad hands.

 

Used right the EBR's rules, a bad drivers will suck and die fast in them.

11:27 Added after 7 minute

View Postevcro, on 03 December 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:

 

no, only to wheeled vehicles

 

huge speed, acceleration and turn rate + bot auto aim must have drawbacks

 

you get connected by 4-5 hits, anywhere on your wheely model and you  are out of the game

 

or, alternatively remove autoaim, do you like to yolo at 100kmh ? fine, but you aim manually


No, autoaim is an integrated part of the game for all LT, just give them regular autoaim like all others tanks.

11:34 Added after 14 minute

View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 08:04 AM, said:

They might be clumsy in cities, rammed to death easily, etc., that doesn't make them balanced. WT auf E100 could clip a full hp Maus in 8-10 seconds, but also had a one  minute  long reload, no camo or turret armor. Giving it extremely strengths and extreme weaknesses doesn't make it balanced. 

 

People gave the same kind of arguments regarding artillery. Doesn't make it balanced. And I started playing artillery to understand it better. I dare to call myself an arta expert. I understand really well how it should be played, but also how you can play against them. Does it make then balanced? I leave this question open for you.

 

It's easy to call me a bot. But I'm still a bot with nearly 60% overall winrate and 3 gun marks on many light tanks and even artillery. I know what I'm talking about.

 

Yes, extremely strengths and extreme weaknesses doesn't make it balanced for the good play who can use its strength to its fullest. But it does overall with many players who cane handle it extreme weaknesses and die fast.

 

In a game, it doesn't make it balanced, but overall across all the games, it actually does.

 

PS: Braking about your stats doesn't prove you right, it only proves you are a snob, stat padder or are too full of yourself.

 

You are right or wrong based on facts, not your stats.



Richthoffen #45 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:52 PM

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Quote

No, autoaim is an integrated part of the game for all LT, just give them regular autoaim like all others tanks.

however EBR's don't have to place the cross on the target, aim circle will do making their autoaim easier and beter



24doom24 #46 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:55 PM

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View Postdd_keky, on 03 December 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

If you lose a wheel, your speed drops by 50%, and if you are in turbo ( X ) mode, you littrealy cant make turn, only go straight and pray they miss all shots. But yea, EBR's ruined game not tanks with even more cammo and + 100-110 view range, turret armor higher then some heavies/meds...
(talking about rusky light here )

That's completely false. You lose a tiny amount of turning and that's it. So much BS when an EBR-105 tanks a 155mm AP shell from my Foch 155 with its wheels and continues driving at 95 km/h



fwhaatpiraat #47 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:27 PM

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View Postmolan1976, on 03 December 2019 - 12:19 PM, said:

 

It is true the real issues for specialised tanks are, they can really shine in good hands while still suck in bad hands.

 

Used right the EBR's rules, a bad drivers will suck and die fast in them.

11:27 Added after 7 minute


No, autoaim is an integrated part of the game for all LT, just give them regular autoaim like all others tanks.

11:34 Added after 14 minute

 

Yes, extremely strengths and extreme weaknesses doesn't make it balanced for the good play who can use its strength to its fullest. But it does overall with many players who cane handle it extreme weaknesses and die fast.

 

In a game, it doesn't make it balanced, but overall across all the games, it actually does.

 

PS: Braking about your stats doesn't prove you right, it only proves you are a snob, stat padder or are too full of yourself.

 

You are right or wrong based on facts, not your stats.

If extreme weaknesses make up for extreme strenghts, guns with 10.000 alpha damage and 100 meter splash radius would be a really balanced addition to the game. /s

 

Also, if people start calling me a bot, it won't hurt to show them they're wrong. By showing some statistics I can validate my opinions and experience. It does make a difference if the local village idiot tells you you are going to die in 1 month, or a doctor. I'm by no means a doctor, but on this forum people tend to shout random crap, without them having any knowledge about the stuff they are talking about. My sincere apologies if my previous comment offended you.



GodTank2 #48 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:04 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

If extreme weaknesses make up for extreme strenghts, guns with 10.000 alpha damage and 100 meter splash radius would be a really balanced addition to the game. /s

 

Also, if people start calling me a bot, it won't hurt to show them they're wrong. By showing some statistics I can validate my opinions and experience. It does make a difference if the local village idiot tells you you are going to die in 1 month, or a doctor. I'm by no means a doctor, but on this forum people tend to shout random crap, without them having any knowledge about the stuff they are talking about. My sincere apologies if my previous comment offended you.

 

What experience? You dont even have a tier 10 EBR. Ofc tier 7 and tier 8 premium ebrs are good due to their HE rounds and the fact that people in those tiers generally are not the best players. In tier 10 almost every heavy and medium has 1k shell velocity and believe me if you play something that has 1.4k velocity it starts becoming very easy hitting them on the move.

People cry about bounces, well ofc you are gonna bounce if you hit the wheel and not the actual tank hitbox. Just like in a tracked vehicle if you shoot at the tracks but the shot doesn't connect into the actual tank's body its gonna bounce.

 

The vehicle is only really good in the hands of a very good player. In the hands of a potato the tank is just a 1 use yolo in and die tank.

 

Edit: Not to mention driving them is extremely hard, the wheels feel like they are driving on ice , 1 small turn at full speed and the tank can literally ice skate.


Edited by GodTank2, 03 December 2019 - 02:06 PM.


Homer_J #49 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:07 PM

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View PostRichthoffen, on 03 December 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

 

however EBR's don't have to place the cross on the target, aim circle will do making their autoaim easier and beter

 

No, what they have to do is click somewhere very near but not too near, not there, maybe a bit to the right, left, down, up, agh it locked and I clicked again.

 

Really, the enhanced lock on is pretty terrible.

 

View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:


A few days ago this happened, a Lynx on my team just rushed the valley straight into the 'arty pit', arta gone. Now ofcourse it's funny because it's arta and what not, but no, this is just pathetic.

 

That will work for a wheelie once in a hundred battles.  Mostly you will touch a tiny rock and find yourself running back toward your team.



molan1976 #50 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:29 PM

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View PostRichthoffen, on 03 December 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

Quote

No, autoaim is an integrated part of the game for all LT, just give them regular autoaim like all others tanks.

however EBR's don't have to place the cross on the target, aim circle will do making their autoaim easier and beter


Yes and this should be removed.



Homer_J #51 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:36 PM

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View Postmolan1976, on 03 December 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:


Yes and this should be removed.


No, they should give it to all lights.  Make everyone suffer the click click click lock click grrrrr.:angry:



Richthoffen #52 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:42 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 December 2019 - 02:36 PM, said:


No, they should give it to all lights.  Make everyone suffer the click click click lock click grrrrr.:angry:

it should be removed from the game for every class, no more click, lock and drive around like mad and hit very shot



molan1976 #53 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:43 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

If extreme weaknesses make up for extreme strenghts, guns with 10.000 alpha damage and 100 meter splash radius would be a really balanced addition to the game. /s

 

Also, if people start calling me a bot, it won't hurt to show them they're wrong. By showing some statistics I can validate my opinions and experience. It does make a difference if the local village idiot tells you you are going to die in 1 month, or a doctor. I'm by no means a doctor, but on this forum people tend to shout random crap, without them having any knowledge about the stuff they are talking about. My sincere apologies if my previous comment offended you.


You do not offend me, I am just saying peoples stats doesn't make them more or less right. Facts are facts regardless of who presents them.

I do get the doctor analogy, but this is a game where OP tanks, stat-padding and platooning can make a difference without making you a better team player.

 

I have seen purple players hiding behind red meatshields, kill steal and farm damage, even on the expense of the team. LT are the ultimate team players, while TD's more often than not are selfish players as a play style.

 

To some extent, you are right about extreme weaknesses and strengths, but you are also wrong to some extent. It all depends on how it performs overall in all games and matches. If the win rate goes through the roof, then it OP for sure, if not, it's simply situational.

 

Good players can make all the good tanks seems OP, while bad plyers can do badly in any tank.

 

I think the EBR can be a problem and it will get nerfed as all-new OP tanks do in time when enough have grinded them. But they have a place as bet active scout, then we all optimum passive scouts and mix scouts. Overall not a bad addition, when rebalanced a bit.

 

155 was nerfe, Type 59 was nerfed, WT was removed etc., WG put new OP stuff in than wait until the maximum grind have been done and nerfs it, only to release new OP stuff. It is clearly part of the buessnes stategy to get money from the paying userbase.

 

So its what pays for you free game :)

 

 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #54 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:45 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:


People just want to play the game. I'm not talking about tanks wandering off behind enemy lines, end game, etc.

 

A few days ago this happened, a Lynx on my team just rushed the valley straight into the 'arty pit', arta gone. Now ofcourse it's funny because it's arta and what not, but no, this is just pathetic.

 

 

Funny you should bring this one up as I had exactly the same thing happen a few days ago, Lynx, Blackdog and a couple meds yolo'd straight up the valley and yes, unfortunately our arty had a bad game. But then they do have a W key, nobody forced them to sit there. Lynx and friends made it in, but our team reacted quickly and they sure didn't make it out and neither did their backup.

 

Thing is tho I can count the number of times I've seen it work out for the EBR players on one hand but I'd have to borrow a couple friends to keep track of how many times I've watched it fail miserably. Klaus a while back posted one of his YouTube videos about EBRs supposedly destroying arty left, right and centre every game. From what I understand he had to play dozens of games to get enough footage together to give himself something to rant over for 10 minutes so that's apparently how effective that is..



molan1976 #55 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:46 PM

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View PostRichthoffen, on 03 December 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

it should be removed from the game for every class, no more click, lock and drive around like mad and hit very shot


That's silly, auto aim serves a purpose and always did and not just for LT, but of course especially for LT.

 

EBR is the new T50-2, and will eventually be balanced.



geoff99 #56 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:54 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 03 December 2019 - 01:04 PM, said:

 

What experience? You dont even have a tier 10 EBR. Ofc tier 7 and tier 8 premium ebrs are good due to their HE rounds and the fact that people in those tiers generally are not the best players. In tier 10 almost every heavy and medium has 1k shell velocity and believe me if you play something that has 1.4k velocity it starts becoming very easy hitting them on the move.

People cry about bounces, well ofc you are gonna bounce if you hit the wheel and not the actual tank hitbox. Just like in a tracked vehicle if you shoot at the tracks but the shot doesn't connect into the actual tank's body its gonna bounce.

 

The vehicle is only really good in the hands of a very good player. In the hands of a potato the tank is just a 1 use yolo in and die tank.

 

Edit: Not to mention driving them is extremely hard, the wheels feel like they are driving on ice , 1 small turn at full speed and the tank can literally ice skate.

 

Following FWhaat's excellent posts


I've got an LT-432 with 60% wr and 800+ battles. With umpteen skill crew and enhanced optics. I have 40k games and my stats are better than average. I was nearly owned yesterday by a Lynx 6x6 driven by a 500 wn8 player. No disrespect to inexperienced players, but they don't have the same accumulated knowledge and learned skills which yield demonstrably better results. But the Lynx very nearly took me out from full hp as he circled my OP light; protected by wheels; his autoaim working all the time, while my autoaim was too slow to keep up with him.

 

I do have the tier 10 EBR. Not many games in randoms but played lots in Ranked. IMO they are far too strong, and significantly better than the next best T10 Light, T100LT.

 

Upshot, as FWhaat and I think Snaques have previously said; WVs are

- broken

- can ruin careful play (what's the point in taking a vulnerable early spotting position if WV will light you for red team to kill)

- hard to master, but even a random player yoloing the red team from the start can completely destabilise the game

- have changed the game balance significantly



GodTank2 #57 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:58 PM

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View Postgeoff99, on 03 December 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

 

Following FWhaat's excellent posts


I've got an LT-432 with 60% wr and 800+ battles. With umpteen skill crew and enhanced optics. I have 40k games and my stats are better than average. I was nearly owned yesterday by a Lynx 6x6 driven by a 500 wn8 player. No disrespect to inexperienced players, but they don't have the same accumulated knowledge and learned skills which yield demonstrably better results. But the Lynx very nearly took me out from full hp as he circled my OP light; protected by wheels; his autoaim working all the time, while my autoaim was too slow to keep up with him.

 

I do have the tier 10 EBR. Not many games in randoms but played lots in Ranked. IMO they are far too strong, and significantly better than the next best T10 Light, T100LT.

 

Upshot, as FWhaat and I think Snaques have previously said; WVs are

- broken

- can ruin careful play (what's the point in taking a vulnerable early spotting position if WV will light you for red team to kill)

- hard to master, but even a random player yoloing the red team from the start can completely destabilise the game

- have changed the game balance significantly

 

Yet you can only get 1k dmg per game in the tier 10?

 

You can clearly see that even for you that you are above average you only have 1k dmg in 12 games in the "so broken" EBR. Thats because in order to play very well in that tank you literally need to be better than 90% of players


Edited by GodTank2, 03 December 2019 - 03:00 PM.


tajj7 #58 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:09 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:


People just want to play the game. I'm not talking about tanks wandering off behind enemy lines, end game, etc.

 

A few days ago this happened, a Lynx on my team just rushed the valley straight into the 'arty pit', arta gone. Now ofcourse it's funny because it's arta and what not, but no, this is just pathetic.

 

Or me playing trying to play the ru251. Got shafted when doing this 'insanely risky maneuvre'. But "they have bad view range", right?

 

Or a game in my 121 on Prokhoroka. 1 EBR105 was spotted all the time and drove along the mid ridge all the time. I went middle to play the game at the start, but after 1 minute I knew that there was no place to play at all (there was 1 or 2 arta in the game), so I decided to drive back to B2 or so to just camp/sit and do nothing. Fun.

 

Edit: both examples with images happened right at the start of the battle.

 

Come on Piraat, you can do better than this.

 

Literally all those examples happened with lights before since the game started. 

 

I just had a game where an Even 90 drove around in the middle of the field on Highway and did over 4k spotting in the first minute or so. I only avoided getting heavily wrecked by having a quick reactions and a large repair kit, an idiot on an E75 on our team got wrecked because he was in a bad position, so we had a top tier heavy down start of the game and several of our other heavies lost HP as well (no surprise we then lost the city). All because a player yoloed around in the open in his light and people missed him/didn't shoot at him, he only stopped getting all that assistance because I managed to kill him using good aim and good positioning. If I hadn't had been there the guy would have probably cleared up even more spotting damage and gone into base. 

 

So nerf Even 90 right?

 

Or could it be that people will play whatever tank stupidly and occasionally because other bad players let them do it, through a combination of poor positioning, aiming and awareness, they will have more impact than they should.

 

I mean if a team can't hit a WV in the VALLEY of Lakeville ffs they then deserve all they get, WVs like every other tank can barely move on that terrain and there is no excuses for not hitting them (especially the Lynx which is terrible and huge, there are no excuses for not hitting a Lynx). That example has ZERO to do with WVs, it shows a team leaving a flank exposed, and not reacting to it, they deserved what they got.

 

All 3 of your examples are not only anecdotal, but replace the WV with a light tank and the exact same thing can happen and has happened for the last 8 years plus, I mean light don't ever constantly drive the mid ridge of Prohk do they, it's just wheeled vehicles that do that.......

 

Also sorry RU position (if you got spotted at the red X) is not very good, you have no cover there, you have no exit route, if a light had yoloed you there would you be complaining on the forums or would you actually be realising that you played poorly?

 

You can dislike WVs, you can think they are broken, but these examples of yours do not show that at all. 

 

 

15:16 Added after 7 minute

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 03 December 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

 

Thing is tho I can count the number of times I've seen it work out for the EBR players on one hand but I'd have to borrow a couple friends to keep track of how many times I've watched it fail miserably. Klaus a while back posted one of his YouTube videos about EBRs supposedly destroying arty left, right and centre every game. From what I understand he had to play dozens of games to get enough footage together to give himself something to rant over for 10 minutes so that's apparently how effective that is..

 

He was basically running tomato WN8 and WR when attempting to that, and from what I saw to get 3 cherry picked replays, he pretty much had to play over 100 games in various WVs, he was averaging about half a kill a game, which shows that most of the time he completely failed to kill even one arty with his yoloing.

 

It consistently does not work, but confirmation bias and over emotional reactions make people claim it happens way more than it does, it's pretty much like 15-0s, they are super rare but if you read the forums they are apparently happening all the time. Exact same with WVs, the vast majority of attempts to yolo into the base do not work and people just throw the WV away for nothing, but all the WV complainers don't notice that because they are biased so they bias just remembers the times it comes off.

 

And even when it does come off, it is largely down to poor players and poor team deployment.

 

Which is what Piraat's Lakeville example is, if a team can't deal with a Lynx (which is big and boxy) on soft terrain where it'll struggle to do 60kph, then pretty much any mobile tank would have got into there on a yolo run. 



BlacMky #59 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:25 PM

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http://wotreplays.eu/site/5114028#live_oaks-blacmky-t95

 

so you telling me that this is normal...watch what EBR does (btw ignore me being useless)

 

ELC maybe does it 1 time in 100 games, EBR does it 5 times in 10 games


Edited by BlacMky, 03 December 2019 - 04:28 PM.


geoff99 #60 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:28 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 03 December 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

 

Yet you can only get 1k dmg per game in the tier 10?

 

You can clearly see that even for you that you are above average you only have 1k dmg in 12 games in the "so broken" EBR. Thats because in order to play very well in that tank you literally need to be better than 90% of players

 

I have loads of excuses for that:

- I absolutely don't claim to be good with the EBR105 at this point

- its only 12 games so the sample size is small

- for two or three of those I was on tilt and played really badly. My micro play is crapand I was outplayed by a red team EBR who was far better at brawling than me

- if I played a lot more EBR105, I imagine I could end up with long-term win rates far in excess of the 53% (?) I have with T100lt. But my DPG wouldn't necessarily be good. I play it mainly as an active scout and sweeper (quick to relocate and help kill isolated red tanks or support isolated green tanks)

 

But enough of me, I understand that the consensus is that the tier 10 and tier 8 premium EBRs are too strong. 

Others are more balanced in terms of OP-ness but still broken in terms of their potential impact on the game.






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