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How is this not pointless...NERF damn EBR, it's ruining the game


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NUKLEAR_SLUG #61 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:33 PM

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View PostBlacMky, on 03 December 2019 - 04:25 PM, said:

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5114028#live_oaks-blacmky-t95

 

so you telling me that this is normal...watch what EBR does (btw ignore me being useless)

 

ELC maybe does it 1 time in 100 games, EBR does it 5 times in 10 games


What's the problem? He basically drove right thru what was the majority of the enemy team and they let him do it. 

 

Also, you should feel bad doing that to a T95.

 

 

 



GodTank2 #62 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:38 PM

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View PostBlacMky, on 03 December 2019 - 04:25 PM, said:

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5114028#live_oaks-blacmky-t95

 

so you telling me that this is normal...watch what EBR does (btw ignore me being useless)

 

ELC maybe does it 1 time in 100 games, EBR does it 5 times in 10 games

 

So he threw away a tier 9 light tank for an arty?

Here is what an EBR Yolo looks like 90% of the time.

Got bored so i decided to just rush mid

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5114045#studzianki-godtank2-panhard_ebr_105

 

90 Km/h btw " Unhittable"

Any tank with 1.4k Shell velocity should be able to hit this tank if the player can aim properly


Edited by GodTank2, 03 December 2019 - 04:39 PM.


fwhaatpiraat #63 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:54 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 03 December 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

What experience? You dont even have a tier 10 EBR. Ofc tier 7 and tier 8 premium ebrs are good due to their HE rounds and the fact that people in those tiers generally are not the best players. In tier 10 almost every heavy and medium has 1k shell velocity and believe me if you play something that has 1.4k velocity it starts becoming very easy hitting them on the move.

People cry about bounces, well ofc you are gonna bounce if you hit the wheel and not the actual tank hitbox. Just like in a tracked vehicle if you shoot at the tracks but the shot doesn't connect into the actual tank's body its gonna bounce.

 

The vehicle is only really good in the hands of a very good player. In the hands of a potato the tank is just a 1 use yolo in and die tank.

 

Edit: Not to mention driving them is extremely hard, the wheels feel like they are driving on ice , 1 small turn at full speed and the tank can literally ice skate.

I do have some experience with the tier X ebr in CW though, not much  and not on this account, but enough to have an impression of it. It isn't even neccessary to have experience in the exact tank though. Before I started playing artillery I knew it would be broken, before I started playing the 416, I knew it would be really strong, before I played the (back then OP) Bulldog, I knew it would be OP. If I play the tier X ebr some on my account, my opinion about it being broken would only be stronger, just look at that mobility. If you still don't understand my point, go play the Rhm Pzw. Just give it a try, honestly. Maybe not the fairest comparison, but you will see my point.

 

View PostHomer_J, on 03 December 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

That will work for a wheelie once in a hundred battles.  Mostly you will touch a tiny rock and find yourself running back toward your team.

Nope. In a single session of let's say 15 battles I see plenty of beyond retraded plays that just shouldn't be rewarded. Crossing the field on Studzianki, spotting most enemies in the base, 'outplaying' enemies on Redshire by driving along the ridge in the middle, driving endless circles on the mid ridge of prokhorovka. Common things that happen regularly, in one session. Ofcourse plenty of times they die eventually or die without result, but still too often they (or me when I play mine) get rewarded for things that shouldn't get rewarded, because they are stupid. If I really wanted to post the 1 in 100 exceptions I would have posted this one, happened at the start of the battle, I was in the green team. Ofcourse it's easy to blame my team, but many, many players just cannot kill them. Not because the players are stupid or handicapped, but because the physics and insane speed just prevent them from getting killed easily.:

View Postmolan1976, on 03 December 2019 - 02:43 PM, said:

-snip-

 

Good point about: a fact is a fact, regardless of who says it. However, imagine a player that's just awful in light tanks: doesn't make spots, doesn't provide support, doesn't relocate when needed, etc. Would you trust him/her if he/she says how the game/maps/tanks should be made/balanced? I rather have someone that thoroughly knows the mechanics and parameters of tanks and maps, such players can imo better assess the situation and give input.

Also regarding a tank overperforming or not, imagine if only the best players of the server play certain tanks, those tanks would automatically have a boosted winrate, whether it's a really good or a really bad tank. In previous discussions people just looked at the overall winrate and concludes certain tanks are OP and should be nerfed blabla. If those people cannot even properly comprehend such numbers, what's the value of their points?

 

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 03 December 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

Funny you should bring this one up as I had exactly the same thing happen a few days ago, Lynx, Blackdog and a couple meds yolo'd straight up the valley and yes, unfortunately our arty had a bad game. But then they do have a W key, nobody forced them to sit there. Lynx and friends made it in, but our team reacted quickly and they sure didn't make it out and neither did their backup.

 

Thing is tho I can count the number of times I've seen it work out for the EBR players on one hand but I'd have to borrow a couple friends to keep track of how many times I've watched it fail miserably. Klaus a while back posted one of his YouTube videos about EBRs supposedly destroying arty left, right and centre every game. From what I understand he had to play dozens of games to get enough footage together to give himself something to rant over for 10 minutes so that's apparently how effective that is..

I cannot count the amount of stupid, but rewarded plays by EBRs on two hands anymore after 5-10 battles. Ofcourse a batchat or regular light can also do silly stuff, but they cannot even come close to the WVs, hence why I see so many people whine about it. I spot a lot of similarities to pre-stun-era artillery. Claus showed that you need a lot of battles to get away with running in between 5+ tanks. Wow. "There is nothing wrong, the most stupid play only gets rewarded once every ten battles". Keep in mind, I don't mind their insane speed that much, it's the insane mobility that kills the fun for opponents. Have we ever seen whine threads about the Rhm Pzw (being too fast) or the pre-changed ru251? I doubt it (maybe some complaints about the ru though ;)   )

View Posttajj7, on 03 December 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

 

-snip-

I think the past few months clearly show that the WVs can do things that other lights can't. That's not a big deal. It starts to get a problem if stupidity, over-aggressiveness (?) and yolo plays get rewarded a lot. And that is clearly the case. Just playing the game shows it, even when I'm not involved. Just seeing how teammates or enemies get yoloed or 'outplayed' because an EBR is that fast/mobile, people whining, myself getting pooped on (I should just camp in the back of Prok and let it all happen,right?).

I wish my regular lights could get away with the same stuff. Don't get me wrong, I really hoped those WVs would be a great addition to the team, but it's just a detriment, they provide one-sided fun. Great fun actually. Onesided like SPGs, or TDs camping on hills behind base. Are my examples still cherrypicked if it happens every other battle?


Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 03 December 2019 - 05:56 PM.


BlacMky #64 Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:00 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 03 December 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

 

So he threw away a tier 9 light tank for an arty?

Here is what an EBR Yolo looks like 90% of the time.

Got bored so i decided to just rush mid

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5114045#studzianki-godtank2-panhard_ebr_105

 

90 Km/h btw " Unhittable"

Any tank with 1.4k Shell velocity should be able to hit this tank if the player can aim properly

 

yea lets ignore the fact that he was driving 3 MINUTES behind enemy lines, driving circles around their tanks, where whole team had to engage him to kill it and he still managed to kill enemy arty and damage few other tanks, while every single tank was spotted and other team (my team) had 3 minutes to position ourselves properly. Guess who won...


Edited by BlacMky, 03 December 2019 - 06:02 PM.


GodTank2 #65 Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:22 PM

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View PostBlacMky, on 03 December 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

yea lets ignore the fact that he was driving 3 MINUTES behind enemy lines, driving circles around their tanks, where whole team had to engage him to kill it and he still managed to kill enemy arty and damage few other tanks, while every single tank was spotted and other team (my team) had 3 minutes to position ourselves properly. Guess who won...

 

Dude you were using a superheavy TD to snipe from max view range. The only reason you won was because the enemy was complete trash, not because of an EBR that did 1k dmg.



tajj7 #66 Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:31 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

 Are my examples still cherrypicked if it happens every other battle?

 

Yes because it doesn't even happen 1 in 10. 

 

It's confirmation bias and even when it does happen, its because of bad players. 

 

Like I said it took Claus like 100 games playing like to get 3 games, its not even close to every other battle, its rare, 1 in 50 would be generous from my experience and the stats back that up. 

17:33 Added after 1 minute

View PostBlacMky, on 03 December 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

 

yea lets ignore the fact that he was driving 3 MINUTES behind enemy lines, driving circles around their tanks, where whole team had to engage him to kill it and he still managed to kill enemy arty and damage few other tanks, while every single tank was spotted and other team (my team) had 3 minutes to position ourselves properly. Guess who won...

 I find it quite hilarious you are playing one of the most OP tier 9s and complaining about WVs which are nowhere near as powerful or idiot proof as the T95 is.

 

Far more games will be decided by one team having a T95 and the other not than are ever decided by WVs. 

 

Its why the complaints about WVs are such ridiculous nonsense, people drive around in all this idiot proof broken stuff, but then complain about hard to play lights that have no armour, no HP, no view range, no DPM, no pen, that literally all you have to do is aim well and you'll kill them, but nah for the idiot masses this is apparently too hard, drive a T95, literally press W and you'll bounce hundreds of shots, with zero input from the user required, that is all fine and dandy, but something constantly spotted all the time that is hard to hit because they have the aim of an 80 year old with parkinsons, that is all the game's fault. 


Edited by tajj7, 03 December 2019 - 06:41 PM.


GodTank2 #67 Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:51 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 03 December 2019 - 06:31 PM, said:

Its why the complaints about WVs are such ridiculous nonsense, people drive around in all this idiot proof broken stuff, but then complain about hard to play lights that have no armour, no HP, no view range, no DPM, no pen, that literally all you have to do is aim well and you'll kill them, but nah for the idiot masses this is apparently too hard, drive a T95, literally press W and you'll bounce hundreds of shots, with zero input from the user required, that is all fine and dandy, but something constantly spotted all the time that is hard to hit because they have the aim of an 80 year old with parkinsons, that is all the game's fault. 

 

Its kinda hard to stay awake until you finally reach your position with the T95



fwhaatpiraat #68 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:03 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 03 December 2019 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

Yes because it doesn't even happen 1 in 10. 

 

It's confirmation bias and even when it does happen, its because of bad players. 

 

Like I said it took Claus like 100 games playing like to get 3 games, its not even close to every other battle, its rare, 1 in 50 would be generous from my experience and the stats back that up. 

Happens almost every game. Not talking about battles in Claus's vid, but just talking about countering normal lights on Redshire or Malinovka. I am talking about the ridiculous plays that would get heavily punished in every other light tank. The stuff my Sheridan, WZ or RHM PZW would never* pull off. 

 

*They can do it, but not nearly as often as the EBR. Even connecting a shot on the EBR with the mentioned tanks is a real challenge. 



GodTank2 #69 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:12 PM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 03 December 2019 - 07:03 PM, said:

Happens almost every game. Not talking about battles in Claus's vid, but just talking about countering normal lights on Redshire or Malinovka. I am talking about the ridiculous plays that would get heavily punished in every other light tank. The stuff my Sheridan, WZ or RHM PZW would never* pull off. 

 

*They can do it, but not nearly as often as the EBR. Even connecting a shot on the EBR with the mentioned tanks is a real challenge. 

 

Because those tanks arent mean to do active spotting. All the tanks you mentioned have like 60 more pen on their standard rounds , 60 more view range and way better dpm. So maybe dont go and do active scouting?



fwhaatpiraat #70 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:17 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 03 December 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

Because those tanks arent mean to do active spotting. All the tanks you mentioned have like 60 more pen on their standard rounds , 60 more view range and way better dpm. So maybe dont go and do active scouting?

Indeed, they cannot properly active scout. They cannot reach spotting bushes. They cannot snipe, they cannot flank, they cannot brawl against heavies.

The tier X lights never were strong, but the EBR put the final nail in their coffin. Also shown by popularity in CW.



Furija111 #71 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:39 PM

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With all due respect, I think this game is increasingly losing ground and is becoming more of a money-grabbing game by inserting "supernatural" tanks. The EBR is an example of this, a vehicle that has never participated in combat operations, as well as artillery capabilities. I say this from real-life experience, having been a tank driver for 5 years. First the T55, then the T-84. I survived two direct hits to the back of the T84 and several ricochets, but that's why when we hit the wheel (BRDM2-Armored Razvedyvatelno-Dozornaya Mashina-2) there were no buttons left. On the other hand, it has never happened that artillery hits tanks on the move, because it requires laser guidance and a reconnaissance vehicle with the ability to mark the target, ie a tank (today's vehicles have this Panzerhaubitz 2000 capability), with current artillery in this game it is impossible to perform. It is clear to me that this is a game, but with every novelty it loses its reality and it irritates people. I understand the fans of these vehicles as well, because without such effort and focus, you sit, eat a sandwich and shoot tanks across hills and valleys. Some who love NFS and Grand Tourismo love EBR because they can go crazy, fall, roll over and nothing will happen to them, it's especially funny when obj.705A hits EBR 105, it shakes the wheels a little and it goes on to hit it in real life EBR would be left without all the wheels and cannon, and every bit of metal.

barison1 #72 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:07 PM

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View PostFurija111, on 03 December 2019 - 07:39 PM, said:

With all due respect, I think this game is increasingly losing ground and is becoming more of a money-grabbing game by inserting "supernatural" tanks. The EBR is an example of this, a vehicle that has never participated in combat operations, as well as artillery capabilities. I say this from real-life experience, having been a tank driver for 5 years. First the T55, then the T-84. I survived two direct hits to the back of the T84 and several ricochets, but that's why when we hit the wheel (BRDM2-Armored Razvedyvatelno-Dozornaya Mashina-2) there were no buttons left. On the other hand, it has never happened that artillery hits tanks on the move, because it requires laser guidance and a reconnaissance vehicle with the ability to mark the target, ie a tank (today's vehicles have this Panzerhaubitz 2000 capability), with current artillery in this game it is impossible to perform. It is clear to me that this is a game, but with every novelty it loses its reality and it irritates people. I understand the fans of these vehicles as well, because without such effort and focus, you sit, eat a sandwich and shoot tanks across hills and valleys. Some who love NFS and Grand Tourismo love EBR because they can go crazy, fall, roll over and nothing will happen to them, it's especially funny when obj.705A hits EBR 105, it shakes the wheels a little and it goes on to hit it in real life EBR would be left without all the wheels and cannon, and every bit of metal.


you mention ebr not participating in combat missions, if looking at such way then perhaps 70-90% of the wot tech tree can be scrapped as they didnt see enemy engagements.

 

but unlike a whole bunch blueprint concepts/fantasy designs/mockup stage only tanks the amd178, ebr75 and ebr90 have been (mass) produced, just like lynx (which is modernized and still in use). so just depends how you look at it

 

 

dont forget this game is an arcade with hitpools, dont see a irl AFV take like 5-10 penetrating hits in the face and still standing, so making an argument that ebr should just explode with nothing remaining upon 15cm hit irl is pretty stupid as argument

 

 

 



AIZEN_GUARD #73 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:26 PM

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View PostBlacMky, on 02 December 2019 - 11:06 PM, said:

Look, I know I'm not super duper player, that is not the point. You have damn replay attached...

 

This EBR [editied] has to be Nerfed, its damn ridiculous, driving 150 kmh, can't miss from 100+ meters, can't get hit due to instantaneous change of direction, then hits a rock while driving 150 km/h, gets knocked back and into the air 10 kilometers high, lands on the wheels, continues to drive like nothing happened...

 

What am I supposed to do as normal light tank, how can I match that crap...obviously I can do much better than I did, but I just lost will to play, did not wanted to move, what is the point.

This [edited] does not belong in World of Tanks, but if you gonna have it, then fking Nerf it, it's stupid and is ruining the game...

22:07 Added after 1 minute
http://wotreplays.eu/site/5113266#steppes-blacmky-t-54_ltwt

ebr all get nerfed no need more if you just w8 for ebr get a samll stone(nayting make your tank move 1 centimeter in air) and he do 180 turn for you and lose speed but ebr was need in the game the are enamy of camper and make game more active  befor ebr  all high wn8 player only camp camp but now they forced to move 100meter forward at last



DangerMouse #74 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:44 PM

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Been playing a lot of high tier scouts and although the WV might not be OP they (for me) ruin the game, the tier 9 and 10 are too fast and turn too quickly and need their hit boxes enlarging.

In a way they are like arty as a bad playing in one can ruin the game just the same as arty does. 

I am not sure how to change them to make them less toxic but a start would be reduce the HE pen and also nerf the accuracy on the move.

DM


Edited by DangerMouse, 03 December 2019 - 09:45 PM.


BlacMky #75 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:46 PM

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View PostGodTank2, on 03 December 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

 

Dude you were using a superheavy TD to snipe from max view range. The only reason you won was because the enemy was complete trash, not because of an EBR that did 1k dmg.

 

who cares how I play, this is not a topic discussing my skills and my gameplay, as I literally said in my first sentence of the topic, its topic discussing super retarded EBR gameplay, if you cant answer my argument, then keep quiet at least

So, Ill repeat it:

yea lets ignore the fact that he was driving 3 MINUTES behind enemy lines, driving circles around their tanks, where whole team had to engage him to kill it and he still managed to kill enemy arty and damage few other tanks, while every single tank was spotted and other team (my team) had 3 minutes to position ourselves properly. Guess who won...


Edited by BlacMky, 03 December 2019 - 10:22 PM.


Warzey #76 Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:41 PM

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View PostFurija111, on 03 December 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:

With all due respect, I think this game is increasingly losing ground and is becoming more of a money-grabbing game by inserting "supernatural" tanks. The EBR is an example of this, a vehicle that has never participated in combat operations, as well as artillery capabilities. I say this from real-life experience, having been a tank driver for 5 years. First the T55, then the T-84. I survived two direct hits to the back of the T84 and several ricochets, but that's why when we hit the wheel (BRDM2-Armored Razvedyvatelno-Dozornaya Mashina-2) there were no buttons left. On the other hand, it has never happened that artillery hits tanks on the move, because it requires laser guidance and a reconnaissance vehicle with the ability to mark the target, ie a tank (today's vehicles have this Panzerhaubitz 2000 capability), with current artillery in this game it is impossible to perform. It is clear to me that this is a game, but with every novelty it loses its reality and it irritates people. I understand the fans of these vehicles as well, because without such effort and focus, you sit, eat a sandwich and shoot tanks across hills and valleys. Some who love NFS and Grand Tourismo love EBR because they can go crazy, fall, roll over and nothing will happen to them, it's especially funny when obj.705A hits EBR 105, it shakes the wheels a little and it goes on to hit it in real life EBR would be left without all the wheels and cannon, and every bit of metal.

 

It's an arcade game, it has very little to do with reality. The only real thing in the game is that tanks are based on real tanks.

The list of unrealistic things is endless, shells don't have proper ballistic trajectory, tanks have health points, shells have damage, 1kmx1km maps are not a realistic battleground for tanks, all tanks have fully stabilized guns, tanks are way more mobile than they should be, tank crew repairs tracks in a matter of seconds, WV crew repairs wheels while on the move, etc.

 

I find it extremely hypocritical that people say stuff like "oh but the kinetic energy of +150mm shell should turn this lightly armored tank in a pile of scrap".

 


Edited by Warzey, 03 December 2019 - 10:53 PM.


Echotun #77 Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:29 AM

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We gave wheeled vehicles a go, they've seen plenty of play, and it sounds like most player agree they are bad for the game. CTRL+ALT+DEL

Blackadder83 #78 Posted 04 December 2019 - 02:01 AM

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I agree, remove this op excuse for a tank from a game. Since WV are introduced, I can't finish any LT mission since those appeared and no light tank is match to them. Autoaim and insane speed, ability to ride tru whole enemy team and spot them without being hit and stopped in any way ... game is getting worse and worse every year, not to mention that we have to endure the 15:1/2/3 games and awful MM 

NUKLEAR_SLUG #79 Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:39 AM

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View PostBlacMky, on 03 December 2019 - 09:46 PM, said:

yea lets ignore the fact that he was driving 3 MINUTES behind enemy lines, driving circles around their tanks, where whole team had to engage him to kill it and he still managed to kill enemy arty and damage few other tanks, while every single tank was spotted and other team (my team) had 3 minutes to position ourselves properly. Guess who won...

 

Nobody is ignoring it, I think everyone would absolutely agree that it was utter fail by the enemy team to allow that EBR to do what he did for so long.

 

Fast pass along the waterline and early spots fine, but as soon as he went over that ridge line and drove across the open field he should have got deleted.

 

 



molan1976 #80 Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:58 AM

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View Postgeoff99, on 03 December 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

 

Following FWhaat's excellent posts


I've got an LT-432 with 60% wr and 800+ battles. With umpteen skill crew and enhanced optics. I have 40k games and my stats are better than average. I was nearly owned yesterday by a Lynx 6x6 driven by a 500 wn8 player. No disrespect to inexperienced players, but they don't have the same accumulated knowledge and learned skills which yield demonstrably better results. But the Lynx very nearly took me out from full hp as he circled my OP light; protected by wheels; his autoaim working all the time, while my autoaim was too slow to keep up with him.

 

I do have the tier 10 EBR. Not many games in randoms but played lots in Ranked. IMO they are far too strong, and significantly better than the next best T10 Light, T100LT.

 

Upshot, as FWhaat and I think Snaques have previously said; WVs are

- broken

- can ruin careful play (what's the point in taking a vulnerable early spotting position if WV will light you for red team to kill)

- hard to master, but even a random player yoloing the red team from the start can completely destabilise the game

- have changed the game balance significantly


Very good point, yes they need a nerf and will get it in time, especially the tire X EBR. WG just have to profit from them first, its part of the payment plan so to speak :D

09:00 Added after 2 minute

View PostGodTank2, on 03 December 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

 

Yet you can only get 1k dmg per game in the tier 10?

 

You can clearly see that even for you that you are above average you only have 1k dmg in 12 games in the "so broken" EBR. Thats because in order to play very well in that tank you literally need to be better than 90% of players


You need to include spotting damages, I know WN8 doesn't take that into account but you should.

 

Played right, LT is more about spotting damage than actual damage.

 






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