Jump to content


Thoughts of a returning player


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

Atris2nd #1 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:39 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11158 battles
  • 69
  • Member since:
    12-20-2012

Howdy fellas. 

 

Just wanna get a little discussion going by putting down my thoughts and I wanna see what others think, maybe get some advice too. I've played WoT since 2013 or 2012. One or the other. I've played it a lot ( for someone who has a lot of other work to do in their life ) and once World of Warships came out I largely abandoned WoT to play that, as I consider it more relative to my interests and a better game, though with its fair share of problems. 

 

That being said however, I still love tanks. I still really like this game at its core so once I found out I can get a tank for free, i.e the Super Hellcat and the King Tiger © I decided to come back, see what its like. And, eh, my impressions are.. weird. For one there's a lot of quality of life changes which I like. The new interface, the reworked shop, all the stuff in the garage - they're great. It was a good overhaul near as I can tell and I like it a lot. Graphics look incredible now and since I have a relatively high end machine, I can run the game on top settings without a hiccup. Excellent stuff so far.

 

But then I got to the battles and, of course, I haven't played in awhile so obviously I'm not particularly good, not right off the bat. I play every class, including a little bit of SPG to preface this and, well.. I found myself getting rather frustrated. In particular playing with and against heavy tanks. I'm not sure why this is but just about every heavy tank from tier 8 onwards bar some feel almost impenetrable without gold. And, at the same time, playing with heavy tanks meant nothing but gold was being shot at me. That, atleast before, never felt to be the case to me. What happened to weakspots and good aim etc? Felt like none of that factored in a whole lot and unless I was playing something with weird angles like my IS-7, I could hardly ever bounce anything whilst at the same time being unable to pen anything without gold unless it was some absolutely stupid, punishing mistake. In my previous experience, you reserved gold ammo for the worst case scenario really. Now, it seems like its become the norm and I just wonder why that is. My Lowe used to be able to penetrate the lower plate of a Maus before, which, to me, was a very rewarding experience. I was still at a huge disadvantage but atleast I had somewhere to shoot at with regular ammo. Now, I literally cannot penetrate a Maus from the front no matter how well or where I aim. 

 

I hear there's some change to premium ammo coming but as it stands right now, it severely limits my enjoyment of the game. It doesn't factor in as much when I'm playing lights and mediums cause atleast they can get around the enemy but when it's heavy vs heavy, the guy with more gold wins 9 out of 10 times since he doesn't need to aim while I do. I have a lot of premium tanks in addition to my standard ones, I can grind the money to use premium ammo but, to me, it just doesn't feel right. It limits the enjoyment of the game severely when I have to constantly float my economy just to be remotely competitive with some vehicles. That's my biggest complaint, I have virtually no other problems currently. I know there's unbalanced vehicles but that's just the nature of this game and many like it, it's always an ongoing struggle, the balance. 

 

Would appreciate if you can give me your thoughts. Am I overexaggerating the problem cause I just came back? Is it a problem at all? There any way to make that experience less frustrating? Let me know what you lot think, I'd really like some advice! 


Edited by Atris2nd, 03 December 2019 - 01:42 PM.


Homer_J #2 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:59 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Moderator
  • 32930 battles
  • 36,128
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

WoT went through a phase of increasing the armour on everything.  Not just heavies, some mediums got unhistorical mantlets or beefed up turrets.  Some of that happened during the conversion to HD, some was done as a deliberate buff.

 

The Maus LFP was indeed buffed.

 

We mostly learned to adjust.  You can't fight a Maus frontally with your Lowe with regular ammo so don't.  Even pressing 2 is only giving you a 70% chance if the Maus angles badly.   If you are in the position that you have to go 1 on 1 with a Maus in your Lowe then either you or your team did something wrong.

 

We will see how the changes go.  They might not be far off now, a few months is my guess.  But I don't think they will change much.


Edited by Homer_J, 03 December 2019 - 02:00 PM.


Atris2nd #3 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:02 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11158 battles
  • 69
  • Member since:
    12-20-2012

View PostHomer_J, on 03 December 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

WoT went through a phase of increasing the armour on everything.  Not just heavies, some mediums got unhistorical mantlets or beefed up turrets.  Some of that happened during the conversion to HD, some was done as a deliberate buff.

 

The Maus LFP was indeed buffed.

 

We mostly learned to adjust.  You can't fight a Maus frontally with your Lowe with regular ammo so don't.  Even pressing 2 is only giving you a 70% chance if the Maus angles badly.   If you are in the position that you have to go 1 on 1 with a Maus in your Lowe then either you or your team did something wrong.

 

Oh I understand that completely, the latter half of your statement. And thank you for clarifying as well. As I said, I would have always been at a disadvantage but atleast previously I had a solid chance of dealing damage if the Maus underestimated me and I aimed well. Now, well, not so much, he can just drive at me and win. I very genuinely preferred the old scenario. I don't know why they upped the armor on everything, that seems like a very odd decision but eh.



snowlywhite #4 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:15 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 26102 battles
  • 558
  • Member since:
    01-05-2018

beside upping the armor:

 

1. WG kinda lost control of the game economy imho. I'm drowning in credits while running food and all that...

 

2. you simply run out of ammo on enough tanks so you're down to premium only.

 

For instance: progetto t8(a tank in which I fire very little gold since the gun is good). I still have to carry 35% or so of the ammo as gold case I meet a type/maus/stuff like that which I mathematically can't pen with standard. I keep a clip of he for decap/arty. So I'm left with 27 rounds. If you do 6-7 blind shots... left with 20. Had situations when I was simply out of std. rounds.

 

and that's for a tank which has good ammo capacity(45 rounds). If you're in a t8 heavy, with this MM, you'll carry probably 50/50 std/premium. In a russian heavy, that's under 15 std rounds after leaving room for a couple of HE rounds. If, again, 4-5 blind shots... you'll be left only with premium ammo 2/3rds in the game in many cases.



sokolicc #5 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:46 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 32384 battles
  • 375
  • [OXIDE] OXIDE
  • Member since:
    04-14-2016

Global lack of weakspots and dumbing down gameplay is what's happening in last 2 years. If you pay attention maps have obvious sniping spots (new or reworked ones, old maps are still kinda nice) which can dominate over whole open field in the middle like Pilsen and Kharkov (although Kharkov is larger, it still feels badly, i liked old one more, old one just needed larger field and that's it).

So, armor buffs, dpm buffs and pen buffs (until recently, now they are releasing tanks with crap gold ammo too) but trick is, game is much faster and one missed shot can easily cost you a battle. At least i had that experience quite often in last period, tank that i left on few HP or i didn't tracked on good position just won battle by himself. Players also seems less willing to fight and win and at the begining they see they have losing spawn (Fjords and Mines are one of most one-sided maps).

 

Idk what's an issue but it really became crapexperience. I had much more fun before, now it just seems like i'm not deciding much about battle outcome. If i play in tier 8 platoon - we have to carry tier 10 battles in order to win.
I remember one day i had 24 wins out of 25 in my T49, and in every battle i did great (floated way above 3rd mark tresshold) but next day won 1 out of 9 and Alt+F4.

But hey, not that we're getting premiums a bit weaker than standard tanks, not that we're getting the same but waaay better than tech tree tanks.

What is LT-432 looking for in tier 8? It can, with gun and HP upgrade, easily be very good tier 10 scout, LITERALY!
Defender - won't speak but gun is crap and even if i got it and IS-3A from loot boxes (bought a little but had a lot of luck) i played 20 games in total with them. They're too black and white. Superior in one aspect but guns are simply BAD (Defender hitting some strange snapshots and highrolling in the same time too often in last period, i use them sometimes for strongholds).
We've came to the point where Skorpion G is just average premium. Good but not ultimately the best, just okay and very playable.
Centurion 5/1. Maybe i am dumb but it's contesting and winning battles against me in Cent 7/1 (and i am not bot in it, i have 3 marks and quite decent scores in Cent 7/1). 
It's not OP but it's clearly WAAAAAAY BETTER than standard counterpart.
Turtle Mk1 - better AT 15.
Patriot - Better T32.
Only bright side in last 2 years was Pilot, and communitu contributors told it's bad. ONLY ONE TANK THAT IS COMPARABLE TO IT'S TECH TREE COUNTERPART!

Also progetto 46. I remember it's initial stats, it was comparable to Pantera P.44, somehow similar, better in some way, in some way worse. And after Community contributors got it they cried (skill4ltu, quickybaby and DezGamez are the ones i watched), they CRIED how bad progetto is and it needs buff of DPM and intra-clip reload from 2.5 to 2s. We got one OP tank now, which is basicaly only meta medium tank in tier 8 SH.

Only premium worse than tech tree is Caernarvon AX but not because it's bad but because tech-tree one is QUITE GOOD.

Chieftains (have one but played only a few randoms and was focused so hard, and i don't blame anyone, i am not enjoying it), 279e... Now even CW have few tanks, EBR, Chieftain, 279e and 907, and maybe 260. I rememver when S. Conq entered supertest. Way better than FV215b but people and c.contributors wanted all and we got Super Conq with FV215b dpm and gun handling. And even that crap is underpowered now with Chieftain in game. :D

And only one clan-usable tech tree tank EBR... Only one META tank is tech-tree tank. Something stinks here.

And finally... EBRs.
I got my tier 10 and i am playing it only after micro patches where mods are broken. No aimbots and i really see how fkin OP and BROKEN it is.

  • Aim time of 1s, 465 viewrange with my setup (purple optics, my only purple equipment since i consider them unfair and i refuse to spend bonds on it. Bond equipment, another broken concept that rewards good players with even better equipment, but let's skip it),
  • 105 pen on HE with 500 alpha. Just HE spam everywhere...
  • And EBR have insane stabilization, just locks, snaps and drives further.

 

I wish i can see tank in real life. Crew would be stunned constantly by insane turret rotation and tank traverse speed, G-force would be like in Formula 1 car but with addition of turret rotation. :D

Anyway... Game is better in some way but many changes are put in game without proper testing, especially in 9.18 patch.

 

REUSABLE CONSUMABLES - they were change that impacted gameplay a lot, and change which was enough content for 1 whole patch.

 

  • But they introduced tier 10 lights,
  • changed artas,
  • changed MM a lot and
  • added reusable consumables.

And all that in 1 crazy patch that changed game a lot and mostly in negative way. We lost some unique tanks and lights became more damage dealers than scouts. All that because WGs incompetence to make maps that are not coridors...
 

We lost also Object 263 on teir 10 and Grille was overnerfed in current meta so we lost also all high skill-cap tanks and they were either crippled or replaced with idiot-proof ones. 

And flattening of the maps and crippling Fisherman's bay and few other maps, just to fit them to Ruski Bobject gun depression... So sad and bad. 

Anyway, some quality of life was introduced but many new issues were introduced or current issues were made worse.

Maps seems all same now, same feeling, same time of the day, same sky... Visualy nice but to be honest i miss clouds on Karelia an Zigfried, i miss dark Murovanka, Winter Himelsdorf and Winterberg, Windstorm map...

I still play game but i am enjoying not 95% of the times but more like 65-70%... And it's going for worse.

Those are my few cents about the state of the game now, and if you can enjoy gaming without WoT i strongly recommend you to stick to WoWs since game will not be enjoyable for you.

And don't let sandbox storry tricks you... After those changes you will have full-armor meta with same goldspam but battles will last longer due to lower effective DPM on gold.
But again, bad players will be even worse, good players will be even better since they know how to aim.

And instead of global armor revision they revise gold. And i am quite sure people wouldn't spam so much gold if they can hit weakspots. At least i wouldn't, i'm not crazy about credit grind. :D



Atris2nd #6 Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:24 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 11158 battles
  • 69
  • Member since:
    12-20-2012

@sokolicc

 

Really appreciate the in-depth reply and the expanded reasoning. So what I'm getting is that they just buffed the armor on most vehicles just so you can use more gold ammo. Which is.. a shame. I have noticed, as well, that the maps are a lot more standardized across all. You have ''the heavy tank spots'', the ''TD spots'' and the ''medium and light tank fields''. Doesn't seem advantageous at all to try to break convention.  

 

And I forgot to mention, I absolutely hate those french wheeled vehicles. Those are infuriating to fight, even in my light tanks. They have some kind of HE round that cripples my lights while I struggle to catch up and shoot them on the move. And if I stop, they can just run circles around me and smack me much harder than I can. I mainly play french lights ( AMX 13 series ) and I absolutely hate fighting the wheeled vehicles, they shatter the pace of the game I feel. I don't think they belong in the game and I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

But yeah, my main gripes being with how gold and armor is handled. Armored vehicle are have not been particularly enjoyable to play or fight and I can see why now, based on all your feedback above. The whole "Increase armor, make gold the only way of fighting them frontally" is a mentality I severely disagree with. Might wind up selling my armored vehicles cause they are absolutely joyless to play. Atleast I can say that mediums seem.. about as fun as they always have been, i.e they're still the best of both worlds. Some armor, good guns, good mobility generally. I'm okay with that. But heavies, eh, nah. Only fun I've had was playing my russian heavies since they play more like mediums.

 

But, as you said, the quality of life changes are atleast great. I really like reusable consumables. I also appreciate not getting hit for 1 million damage by arty anymore atleast xD

 

 


Edited by Atris2nd, 03 December 2019 - 03:25 PM.


Duck_of_Death #7 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:18 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • WGL PRO Player
  • 24032 battles
  • 813
  • [FAME] FAME
  • Member since:
    11-08-2012

View Postsokolicc, on 03 December 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

+++

This perfectly sums up,all the current problems in this Game,to be honest at this point i would just like to play the good old 2015/2016 Version of WOT again, at least the Tank Balance and Maps were good back then...


Edited by Duck_of_Death, 03 December 2019 - 05:18 PM.


Bordhaw #8 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:26 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 15293 battles
  • 5,220
  • Member since:
    01-29-2017

View Postsnowlywhite, on 03 December 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:

1. WG kinda lost control of the game economy imho. I'm drowning in credits while running food and all that...

 



sokolicc #9 Posted 04 December 2019 - 03:15 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 32384 battles
  • 375
  • [OXIDE] OXIDE
  • Member since:
    04-14-2016

View PostAtris2nd, on 03 December 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

@sokolicc

 

Really appreciate the in-depth reply and the expanded reasoning. So what I'm getting is that they just buffed the armor on most vehicles just so you can use more gold ammo. Which is.. a shame. I have noticed, as well, that the maps are a lot more standardized across all. You have ''the heavy tank spots'', the ''TD spots'' and the ''medium and light tank fields''. Doesn't seem advantageous at all to try to break convention.  

 

And I forgot to mention, I absolutely hate those french wheeled vehicles. Those are infuriating to fight, even in my light tanks. They have some kind of HE round that cripples my lights while I struggle to catch up and shoot them on the move. And if I stop, they can just run circles around me and smack me much harder than I can. I mainly play french lights ( AMX 13 series ) and I absolutely hate fighting the wheeled vehicles, they shatter the pace of the game I feel. I don't think they belong in the game and I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

But yeah, my main gripes being with how gold and armor is handled. Armored vehicle are have not been particularly enjoyable to play or fight and I can see why now, based on all your feedback above. The whole "Increase armor, make gold the only way of fighting them frontally" is a mentality I severely disagree with. Might wind up selling my armored vehicles cause they are absolutely joyless to play. Atleast I can say that mediums seem.. about as fun as they always have been, i.e they're still the best of both worlds. Some armor, good guns, good mobility generally. I'm okay with that. But heavies, eh, nah. Only fun I've had was playing my russian heavies since they play more like mediums.

 

But, as you said, the quality of life changes are atleast great. I really like reusable consumables. I also appreciate not getting hit for 1 million damage by arty anymore atleast xD

 

 

 

About artas... I don't remember that before i was hit so hard by them. If you sit like dumb@$$ of course you will.

Now you're perma stunned, it's more annoying. But okay.

Whole arta issue i would solve in following way:

Upon match creation, iirc, match is being created in following way. MM picks 1 player as pivot player and builds match around him. If i remember it. And even if it isn't like that point still remains...

I would do the following:

In the very moment when team is being created, matchmaker, if there are enough artas in the queue, will "roll the dice" and set one flag with following values:

 - 0 artas per side.

 - 1 artas per side

 - 2 artas per side.

So you will have 33% chances to get artilery free battle, 33% to get 1 and 33% to get 2 artas per side.

 

That would drasticaly increase queue time for artas but hey... Improve quality of life for players that buy premium tanks, not the class that can be competitive without single cent spent on the game, which will be good for WG economy.

 

Artilery will still be in the game but not that often.

Last night i had Kharkov with 3 artas.

My STB got i shot from udes 15/16 while hulldown (rng, well what can i do) and after that, with 1500 hp left.... I was 3 shoted. Dead in less than a minute.

Or i could camp behind the house and wait for them to push. Which is not active gameplay and artilery is not preventing camping. :)

And it was not the only battle. I am having terrible gaming experience these days due to 3 hard-hitting artas.

 

Arta is needed for some hull-down annoying tanks but more often than not it's counter productive.

 

Then, i would do the following, after MM changes:

REMOVE ALL ARTILERY DEPENDANT MISSIONS AND GRANT PLAYERS FULL REWARDS FROM THEM. And end them and never introduce them back again.

 

Therefore you still have artilery, people will still be able to be arta only players but not to break MM and to screw other 26 or 24 players experience.

 

 

That's about arta.

 

And yes, you will struggle a lot and will really be dissapointed how battles are ending.

I am considering doing ruski experiment, to make account there and try to get 2-3 tier 10 tanks and will write my experiences or even more, try to make some videos and compare it to EU MM.

 

 

 


Edited by sokolicc, 04 December 2019 - 04:07 PM.


sokolicc #10 Posted 04 December 2019 - 04:05 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 32384 battles
  • 375
  • [OXIDE] OXIDE
  • Member since:
    04-14-2016

View PostDuck_of_Death, on 03 December 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

+++

This perfectly sums up,all the current problems in this Game,to be honest at this point i would just like to play the good old 2015/2016 Version of WOT again, at least the Tank Balance and Maps were good back then...

 

They announced new WoT Classic, let's hope it will be 2015/2016 version.

And btw, i really miss old Erlenberg besides Fjords and Fisherman's bay.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users