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Anti botting measure appears to cause stupid behaviour (campaign)


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Schepel #1 Posted 03 December 2019 - 11:02 PM

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Been playing a lot lately for obvious reasons. The one thing most of these games have in common is extremely passive behaviour by most, if not all, players. It actually looks a bit like ranked battles. After raging a bit about it, I confidently expect another chat ban shortly, I started thinking. Why are these players so unwilling to move and contest key areas of the map? Today it hit me. It simply does not pay to do so if you die early, even if that ultimately helps winning the game. You are bottom of the list and so you don't get anything out of it. Better to camp and hope somebody else will do the dirty work for you. Or so I assume the thought process generally goes.

 

It is my belief that the top ten base xp requirement is in place to prevent botting. The main issue about bots is - imho - passive behaviour. This is exactly what we get right now and on a much bigger scale than otherwise would or even could happen. Therefore, I believe this requirement needs to be reviewed.

 

On a sidenote, I believe it is an unnecessary 'hidden' extra requirement with regards to the xp needed to get the tank. Almost everybody is going to end up bottom five every so often. IMHO, this is just plain nasty combined with the already - imho - inflated xp targets.



Echotun #2 Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:26 AM

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I disagree with everything you just said, and Ive not seen any signs of this extremely passive play you refer to. Maybe Ive just been "Lucky", but Ive played quite a bit, so I doubt it.

Head_has_Exploded #3 Posted 04 December 2019 - 02:31 AM

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View PostEchotun, on 04 December 2019 - 12:26 AM, said:

I disagree with everything you just said, and Ive not seen any signs of this extremely passive play you refer to. Maybe Ive just been "Lucky", but Ive played quite a bit, so I doubt it.

Oh I have, trying to up my winrate, given up, no pushes at all , just camp camp camp, OP is 100% right



Echotun #4 Posted 04 December 2019 - 03:22 AM

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View PostFarQ2, on 04 December 2019 - 02:31 AM, said:

Oh I have, trying to up my winrate, given up, no pushes at all , just camp camp camp, OP is 100% right


You dont own a single tank where you make a meaningful contribution towards winning. Trust me, Your win rate is 100% representative for how you have played your tanks. I dont know what the heck you are doing playing T8 Premiums when you cant carry your own weight at tier 2. 

Players like you are a big part of the problem.

 

EDIT: hold on a second… is that a reroll? A 365 wn8 reroll? Or am I crazy? I just got so morbidly curious, I need to check this further. Holy cow, batman!

 

EDIT 2: This is indeed a 365 wn8 46% win rerolll. Man, when it comes to anything that has to do with tactics or Battles or the garage or anything, you seriously have no clue. 


Edited by Echotun, 04 December 2019 - 03:32 AM.


Tealo #5 Posted 04 December 2019 - 03:35 AM

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The op is right! As it happens every time WG put a new type of special event/game mode in. Most of the players will learn a new set of behaviour from said game liked Ranked and then play the exact same way in randoms kind like that behaviour experiment with rats where if their environment is changed to a extreme ie less space then changed back their behaviour doesn’t change its stuck in the old one! Still huddled in a corner ignoring all the new extra space in their new environment. A few will eventually change with given enough time will snow ball buy influencing the others until most will change as well. but a few will never change they are permanently stuck and humans are the same!

   Most humans suffer from Concrete Thinking (a impaired ability to adapt/a mental age of development of 12 to 16 years old or barley just above it the majority of the humans suffer from this ie are mentally disabled) and or plus locked into behaviour patterns (OCD) with very little or practical no free will with the ability to think for them selves ie Bot Players.

  The best event WG have done this year was Steel Hunt as it encouraged players to actually read the map and respond to the enemy, itimproved the game in randoms when it was on and just after! Unfortunately it was then followed by Front Lines, tank Marathon etc.. then the worst event which impacts most players behaviour:Ranked Battles in combination of a tank Marathon just like the OP has mentioned (tend to sit at that back, and hope someone else carries them etc..just like in Ranked )

 The game play has deteriorated again and has been doing so since the WZ111 2014 Christmas Marathon followed by personnel missions etc.. 

  The game play won’t get any better until next year that’s if WG don’t put in another terrible event/Marathon in which will encourage ‘Bot playing behaviour’ like Ranked battles.

  


Edited by Tealo, 04 December 2019 - 03:47 AM.


Echotun #6 Posted 04 December 2019 - 03:45 AM

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View PostTealo, on 04 December 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

The op is right! As it happens every time WG put a new type of special event/game mode in. Most of the players will learn a new set of behaviour from said game liked Ranked and then play the exact same way in randoms kind like that behaviour experiment with rats where if their environment is changed to a extreme ie less space then change it back their behaviour doesn’t change its stuck in the old one! Still huddled in a corner ignoring all the new extra space in their new environment. A few will eventually change will given enough time will snow ball and most will change but a few will never changes they are permanently stuck and humans are the same!

   Most humans suffer from Concrete Thinking and lock into behaviour patterns with very little or practical no free will with the ability to think for them selves ie Bot Players.

  The best event WG have done this year was Steel Hunt as it encouraged players to actually read the map and respond to the enemy and improved the game in randoms when it was on and just after! Unfortunately it was then followed by Front Lines, tank Marathon etc.. then the worst event which impacts most players behaviour:Ranked Battles in combination of a tank Marathon just like the OP has mentioned the game has gone down the loo again!

  


Ranked Battles for sure. Renegade Marathon; not seen any hint of any altered playstyle. And why would it be? One progress the fastest by winning, by a huge margin.



Tealo #7 Posted 04 December 2019 - 03:53 AM

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View PostEchotun, on 04 December 2019 - 02:45 AM, said:


Ranked Battles for sure. Renegade Marathon; not seen any hint of any altered playstyle. And why would it be? One progress the fastest by winning, by a huge margin.


 Steel Hunt did encourage players to spot early and be more active on the map by responding to the enemy tanks getting to the other side of the map by making it clear, obvious and given extra time to Think, reposition their tanks to counter the enemy bots, it was a good training/tutorial event and should be a part of a extended tutorial!

  I did notice the game play did get better when and just after it was on. Randoms were more enjoyable for a while, less camping,  players more willing to actually help by becoming more active on the map in randoms, compared to when Ranked is on or just after.

 The Marathon with it’s requirements like the ( OP said) just further enforce the behaviour pattern from Ranked Battles ie increased camping, more risk adverse, alot more passive in the hope some one will carry them, and a more reluctant to help based behaviours

 


Edited by Tealo, 04 December 2019 - 04:25 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 04 December 2019 - 04:30 AM

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View PostTealo, on 04 December 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

  The best event WG have done this year was Steel Hunt as it encouraged players to actually read the map and respond to the enemy, itimproved the game in randoms when it was on and just after! 

 

You must be joking right? The best tactic if you wanted to do well in Steel Hunt was to camp as far away from everything as physically possible the entire game whilst the other YOLO idiots killed each other and then swoop in at the end to pick up easy points.



Echotun #9 Posted 04 December 2019 - 04:42 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 04 December 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

 

You must be joking right? The best tactic if you wanted to do well in Steel Hunt was to camp as far away from everything as physically possible the entire game whilst the other YOLO idiots killed each other and then swoop in at the end to pick up easy points.


Indeed. Steel Hunter was imo the Worst by far in the arena. But the mechanic was different enough that is was ok entertainment. I know I got 1rst Place at least once by only killing the second last tank, right after he had killed number 3 and was not on full Health. That mode did not promote interactive gameplay at all.



Tealo #10 Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:58 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 04 December 2019 - 03:30 AM, said:

 

You must be joking right? The best tactic if you wanted to do well in Steel Hunt was to camp as far away from everything as physically possible the entire game whilst the other YOLO idiots killed each other and then swoop in at the end to pick up easy points.


 there’s a word for that kind of personality: Sociopath and if that personality is very egotistical ie say with stats for example then that would be Psychopath. A part of the Dark Triad but you already know all about that Nuclear_Slug :P

 

:popcorn:



8126Jakobsson #11 Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:32 AM

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I can't say that I have noticed anything out of the ordinary. There's always a bunch of needlessly passive players regardless and that's a pretty bad marathon tactic anyway. 

NUKLEAR_SLUG #12 Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:47 AM

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View PostTealo, on 04 December 2019 - 05:58 AM, said:


 there’s a word for that kind of personality: Sociopath and if that personality is very egotistical ie say with stats for example then that would be Psychopath. A part of the Dark Triad but you already know all about that Nuclear_Slug :P

 

:popcorn:

 

Happily there's also words for those that believe in aimbots, rigged MM, secret algorithms and manipulated results. "Victim Mentality" as I'm sure you are, no doubt, intimately aware. :popcorn:



Tealo #13 Posted 04 December 2019 - 08:33 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 04 December 2019 - 06:47 AM, said:

 

Happily there's also words for those that believe in aimbots, rigged MM, secret algorithms and manipulated results. "Victim Mentality" as I'm sure you are, no doubt, intimately aware. :popcorn:


 well without the automatic sense of (inverted) entitlement and justification for blame shifting resolving any form of responsibility (I’m not that bad:deer:) At worse can be described as paranoia:P 

 But that doesn’t mean WG aren’t out to get me,! To part with my wallet at the very least :B


Edited by Tealo, 04 December 2019 - 08:36 AM.


SovietBias #14 Posted 04 December 2019 - 08:47 AM

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I haven't noticed anything particularly different about random battles.

 

Although,  I do agree with you on top 10 rule  being relaxed. Even something like top 14 is enough, given the high XP requirements and short time of this marathon. 



Schepel #15 Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:16 AM

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View PostEchotun, on 04 December 2019 - 12:26 AM, said:

I disagree with everything you just said, and Ive not seen any signs of this extremely passive play you refer to. Maybe Ive just been "Lucky", but Ive played quite a bit, so I doubt it.

 

Have a look at a different topic: it's marathon time. I could have made that screenshot. On any map you care to name.

 

Otherwise, I believe it is a fact of life that everybody, unicums included, ends up bottom five every so often. Mathematically this means an increased base xp requirement. Not sure how you can reasonably disagree but I look forward to your explanation. 



Homer_J #16 Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:44 AM

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View PostSchepel, on 03 December 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

It is my belief that the top ten base xp requirement is in place to prevent botting. The main issue about bots is - imho - passive behaviour. This is exactly what we get right now and on a much bigger scale than otherwise would or even could happen. Therefore, I believe this requirement needs to be reviewed.

 

I agree with you that it needs to be looked at but the reason it's there is because of player outrage at people "not doing anything" and getting missions completed in the early days.

 

But it doesn't need a marathon mission to encourage this behaviour.  Many game guide, streamers, youtubers, tell you that the key to getting a good result is look after your own health pool for late in the battle.  When you get 30 players all looking after their health pool then you get a very campy battle.



Schepel #17 Posted 04 December 2019 - 10:10 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 04 December 2019 - 09:44 AM, said:

 

I agree with you that it needs to be looked at but the reason it's there is because of player outrage at people "not doing anything" and getting missions completed in the early days.

 

But it doesn't need a marathon mission to encourage this behaviour.  Many game guide, streamers, youtubers, tell you that the key to getting a good result is look after your own health pool for late in the battle.  When you get 30 players all looking after their health pool then you get a very campy battle.

 

 

From where I am standing, it certainly does seem to be only variable that changed. With close to 300 games in the past days I do believe I have some idea of what I am talking about. The game seems changed in the sense that the behaviour of most people has changed. That is nothing new, previous marathons much the same happened. Only now it seems more marked, somehow.



Head_has_Exploded #18 Posted 04 December 2019 - 10:41 AM

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View PostEchotun, on 04 December 2019 - 03:22 AM, said:


You dont own a single tank where you make a meaningful contribution towards winning. Trust me, Your win rate is 100% representative for how you have played your tanks. I dont know what the heck you are doing playing T8 Premiums when you cant carry your own weight at tier 2. 

Players like you are a big part of the problem.

 

EDIT: hold on a second… is that a reroll? A 365 wn8 reroll? Or am I crazy? I just got so morbidly curious, I need to check this further. Holy cow, batman!

 

EDIT 2: This is indeed a 365 wn8 46% win rerolll. Man, when it comes to anything that has to do with tactics or Battles or the garage or anything, you seriously have no clue. 

Maybe you could teach me but hey better just to shout down, and the t8's were for FL, and yes to any other speculations you may have:popcorn:



8126Jakobsson #19 Posted 04 December 2019 - 10:53 AM

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View PostFarQ2, on 04 December 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

Maybe you could teach me but hey better just to shout down, and the t8's were for FL, and yes to any other speculations you may have:popcorn:


Skoobs pls 



Head_has_Exploded #20 Posted 04 December 2019 - 11:06 AM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 04 December 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:


Skoobs pls 

Howdy, ok I be quiet now:D






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