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New Soviet MT tech line - finally with gun depression and a surprise TD

soviet medium new tanks td gun depression traverse-lock

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Tomotorqemada #1 Posted 05 December 2019 - 02:04 PM

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Morozov Tanks Tech Line

 

All videos about tanks listed and linked here are in Russian, but the narrator speaks quite distinctly, so i guess the auto subs would do.

Extensive reading material (also rus) is available at http://btvt.info/4ourarticles/110/110_2014.htm ; most pictures are taken from there.

I did not write out all the stats, started with the basic ones - but this is to be finished & amended.

 

26 May 1976 chief engineer of Kharkov Machinetools A. Morozov

presented to the Ministry of Defence Industry a report on a new initiative project of a group of engineers at Malyshev industry. This was "obj. 450, t-74"

 

Much later some thoughtful game engineer was presenting a report to the WG board. He was pointing out the lack of certain features like in the whole tech line of the Soviets - gun depression, accuracy, penetration. 

From what I could gather from the videos and docs available, 3 of the presented 4 tanks share some features, like the elevated gun mount, nonclassic hull composition, and specific loading system as 1 of the consequences of the elevated mount.

 

Tier 8

/3.jpg   Obj.450 (T-74)

Pics

/As followed from the report, latest analysis had shown that keeping the old traditional hull composition would not allow to achieve further battle performance improvement without blowing up the tank size. The new project provided a 5-section composition. One of the funny things - fuel tanks right behind the front plate, but the IRL stats imply like a 700mm solid plate equivalent, so it could be a safe place indeed. To be more realistic i stopped on 180 mm plate, much like Emil turret.As there is not much of a turret here, i guess it just be a gun module and some low profile weakspot of the frontal projection.  IRL side armour was 70mm, 1000hp diesel or 1250 hp motor for a 38.5-42 ton tank allowed for 23-27 hp/t and a top speed of 70 kph on a good road xDDD

The gun mount is elevated above the hull and crew compound; gun depression -11, elevation 12. Dimensions 9.6*3.6*2

It actually had 2 variants of the 'turret'/mount - this can be inserted into the grind scheme: the first turret had the gunner sitting right under the mount always coaxial with the gun; moreover, every shell load required the gun to the 0 deg position; this was considered  2  b too much of an overload for the gunner, so the later turret did not include a gunner seat. The necessity to straighten the gun traverse in order to reload is a funny concept on its own, and you see it in some other tanks here. Given the gun position and desired depression angles, gun (weakly) has to be 'light', with a small but fast and penetrant shell and reduced muzzle flash.

Video T-74
WoT tank stats

 

Tier 9

762.jpg  Obj. 476 'Cedar'

Pics

Technically - an evolution of T-64b. Main improvements considered new turret defence, less weakspots on it and an armour equivalent of 500mm, and protected from the 125 mm cal shots point blank. 

Concerning the WoT tech line, this tank acquires a turret and 'strongpoint' moves there - sides remain almost as weak as in t-74, but get spaced armour; I guess, own gun depression is only 9 deg, but an upgraded suspension features a hydro, which improves depression to 12 deg. Reminds me somewhat of the Jap MTs.

Video Cedar
WoT tank stats

 

Tier X

/1510567948_tank_molot.jpg  Obj.477 'Boxer'/'Hammer'

Pics

 

Pics of a further development, Obj.477 A1 'Note'

This project was developed based on Obj.450 and Obj.490 (not A). IRL one of the main innovations of the project was a 152mm gun. Hydraulics had to be sacrificed for that sake, so 477 enjoys just 10 deg own gun depression. Another inherited feature is the 2-stage loader that needs a certain turret position, only that now it s not just 0 deg straight but with a course deviation +-8 deg. Another advance relative to T-74 is that now it s more than 1 shot loaded into the gun clip, so u dont have to turn your head after EVERY shot. An optional feature to introduce is the shell container change time: you can manuallly affect the shell composition of the clip (say, while loading 1st ap you order next one to be gold, and while loading that gold you order next one to be HE - so every  time you switch the shell container rather than loading from the same one, it costs 2 extra seconds.

The IRL version had 10 shells in the upper clip and 2x12 in lower ones. Ofc for balance sake AND respect for the declared caliber, we make it a 3-loader, much like prog 46 but with even load times for each shell and this extra turret position limitation. Also, as both stages of loading are performed by the servos, there should be no impact from crew improvement and equipment on reload times and dpm, so its kinda stuck with its original dpm unlike other tanks. Optionally i was thinkin that as soon as clip is emptied, turret automatically goes to reload position - or we can leave it to the players discretion. Project provided 1600 hp motor for a 50-60 t tank, so we stop on 56 tons.

Video Boxer
WoT tank stats

 

bo2.jpg Obj. 490A 'Rebel'

 

Pics

To retain the advantage of hydraulics, so as the new hull composition scheme, the dark Soviet genius came up with blueprints of a tank/gun carriage, which we place in TD class. And as known hydro TDs, this one also has 2 modes what have to be switched manually (like in STRV), important difference being that this TD does have a 'turret' i.d. a traversible gun mount. Switching to full reliance on hydro in terms of gun depression allowed to decrease the tank's vertical profile, which prompts some good camo values, again,(almost) as in swedes. The gun has the same traverse-lock autoreloader as 477 and early T-74, with the upper clip size of 6x300 dmg shells; an alternative would be just a conventional loader gun, like Badger's but with a smaller (300) shell and applicable crew skills and rammer,  but as tX does not allow for different module options, i ruled the latter one out.

Video 'Rebel' (together with Obj.490 'Poplar';)
WoT tank stats

 

 

 

PS Sorry for the messy handwriting


Edited by Tomotorqemada, 05 December 2019 - 02:08 PM.


shikaka9 #2 Posted 05 December 2019 - 02:09 PM

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now I want these more than soviet wheeled :bajan:

I_Gutmensch_Deluxe_I #3 Posted 05 December 2019 - 02:25 PM

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Plase dont...

wEight_Tanker #4 Posted 05 December 2019 - 02:51 PM

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We definitely need more Soviet tanks, yes.

Tomotorqemada #5 Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:05 PM

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View PostwEight_Tanker, on 05 December 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

We definitely need more Soviet tanks, yes.

well thats the kind of answer i expected most. but its not the Soviets fault that they did many different tank designs - and it's sure not my fault that despite the number of soviet tanks ingame, they are pretty much duplicating each other, whereas some battle roles are missed out... but i see your point. 
Well, the 477A1 Note was technically already a Ukrainan tenk xDDD so if introduced it can have a double function - a new tech nation in game and indulge the nationalist feelings of ukrainan players xDDDD

u kno sometime ago i was trying to come up with a new jap line, and could not find anything satisfactory or interesting there..


Edited by Tomotorqemada, 05 December 2019 - 03:06 PM.


VarzA #6 Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:09 PM

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They are too weak, you should downtier them .... and maybe uptier the Tiger Ii as it is for good measure and balance.

Tomotorqemada #7 Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:15 PM

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View PostVarzA, on 05 December 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

They are too weak, you should downtier them .... and maybe uptier the Tiger Ii as it is for good measure and balance.

frankly, i was afraid of powercreep and OP/ imbalance accusations in the first place, so that might have given a bias. But rather than downtiering, mb better buffing them a bit.



Thejagdpanther #8 Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:16 PM

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It's like: "You want more cancer? I can give you moar... You want?"

Edited by Thejagdpanther, 05 December 2019 - 03:18 PM.


WaffleTiger #9 Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:18 PM

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Wait, they have armor, speed, gun and gun depression?

Corsz #10 Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:34 PM

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This thier IX looks quite similar to the misterious snow buble tank in last WG video. 

Tomotorqemada #11 Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:54 PM

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View PostWaffleTiger, on 05 December 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

Wait, they have armor, speed, gun and gun depression?

a bit of everything, not too much of anything. just like japs?


Edited by Tomotorqemada, 05 December 2019 - 04:18 PM.


Tomotorqemada #12 Posted 05 December 2019 - 04:44 PM

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View PostCorsz, on 05 December 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

This thier IX looks quite similar to the misterious snow buble tank in last WG video. 

could u give a link? mb they are considering the Cedar already indeed



wEight_Tanker #13 Posted 05 December 2019 - 05:32 PM

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View PostTomotorqemada, on 05 December 2019 - 03:05 PM, said:

well thats the kind of answer i expected most. but its not the Soviets fault that they did many different tank designs - and it's sure not my fault that despite the number of soviet tanks ingame, they are pretty much duplicating each other, whereas some battle roles are missed out... but i see your point. 
Well, the 477A1 Note was technically already a Ukrainan tenk xDDD so if introduced it can have a double function - a new tech nation in game and indulge the nationalist feelings of ukrainan players xDDDD

u kno sometime ago i was trying to come up with a new jap line, and could not find anything satisfactory or interesting there..

 

Well, the main point is that they should focus on other nations' designs as well. Just too much vodka tanks. And I want the freaking doublebarrel already!! :(



DuncaN_101 #14 Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:24 PM

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i really do think at the moment we don't need more ruski tanks.

not that i don't want them. but i think other stuff needs to happen first (ammo rebalance, E100 and IS4 buff/change etc etc)

 

aaah but nvm me ... i'm just doing some wishfullthinking here



demon_tank #15 Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:38 PM

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Because Soviet tanks need to have everything unique characteristic other nations have right ?

Balc0ra #16 Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:46 PM

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View PostwEight_Tanker, on 05 December 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

We definitely need more Soviet tanks, yes.

 

The only one we need is this. BT-2 with an experimental suspension that pushed the speed to 80km/h, and they suspected it could do 105 km/h. 

 

Spoiler

 



wEight_Tanker #17 Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:57 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 05 December 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

 

The only one we need is this. BT-2 with an experimental suspension that pushed the speed to 80km/h, and they suspected it could do 105 km/h. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

It's fine as it is. Low tier's got enough seal clubbers already. lol



Balc0ra #18 Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:59 PM

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View PostwEight_Tanker, on 05 December 2019 - 06:57 PM, said:

 

It's fine as it is. Low tier's got enough seal clubbers already. lol

 

Imagine the BT-7A with that suspension.



Tomotorqemada #19 Posted 05 December 2019 - 07:30 PM

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View Postdemon_tank, on 05 December 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

Because Soviet tanks need to have everything unique characteristic other nations have right ?

Thats a strange perspective, yours. Thats exactly how it worked - there was always military intelligence, and all the improvements achieved by the 'potential enemy' are sooner or later copied or improved or taken into account. Moreover, its not my fantasy - its literary what is said in the intro to that tank group, that "one of the features in need for improvement was gun depression". problem--> solution.

18:32 Added after 2 minute

View PostwEight_Tanker, on 05 December 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

Well, the main point is that they should focus on other nations' designs as well. Just too much vodka tanks. And I want the freaking doublebarrel already!! :(

i mean - well yeah but then people should come up with designs. i did not put TOO much of an effort in that search for a new japanese line, but i can expect that not every nation had a really huge variety. but im totally pro that.



Bordhaw #20 Posted 05 December 2019 - 07:56 PM

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View PostTomotorqemada, on 05 December 2019 - 01:04 PM, said:

New Soviet MT tech line - finally with gun depression and a surprise TD

 

Are you asking or telling ? 






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