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Get Ready for Holiday Ops 2020


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Falathi #161 Posted 07 December 2019 - 11:52 AM

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View PostShadowfang, on 07 December 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

wonder if the black marked dude will sell some x-mas boxes as well, if there even will be reopening of the black market.

 

Black market is an interesting option, but not in the Holiday Ops. I think it would take a bit of time for the black market dude to come back :) 

 

View PostSimona2k, on 07 December 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

Very nice

 

Thank you!



Miepie #162 Posted 07 December 2019 - 11:55 AM

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View PostBravelyRanAway, on 07 December 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

Why do you think some billionaires go broke when a crash comes around?

 

...Because their wives divorce them? :popcorn:



Sirebellus #163 Posted 07 December 2019 - 11:56 AM

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View Postpiratha, on 07 December 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

 

Well, it's out there, don't know if it was already sposted.. but: :popcorn:

 

 

WOT Express predictions (not necessarily true) for Loot Box vehicles

Object 703 double barrelled tank
E75TS (new German cross between E75 and Lowe)
Progetto M35
SU130PM

 

Sherman VC Firefly
Pz.Kpfw III AusfK
Sexton 1
Somua AM39 (Tier 2 Wheeled Vehicle)


Actually that doesn't seem too bad... (I have none of them) WG may get my money after all



Gremlin182 #164 Posted 07 December 2019 - 11:59 AM

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Annoying thing about loot boxes last year was I decided to buy a few of each kind thinking there would be a different balance of rewards in each,

Such as buy a soviet one to get a defender etc.

wasted my time things really got interesting when I just bought 75 boxes and got almost all the tanks I wanted.

That's my plan this year buy 75 on day one then either whine about what I didn't get or do free advertising for WG by saying how fantastic it all turned out.

ie the usual.


Edited by Gremlin182, 07 December 2019 - 11:59 AM.


Miepie #165 Posted 07 December 2019 - 12:29 PM

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To fulfill my daily quotum of one (1) more-or-less on-topic forum post: I hope that immediately from the start it will be made very clear which set of decorations corresponds to each of the holiday camo styles.

Flint_74 #166 Posted 07 December 2019 - 12:33 PM

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View PostSael_, on 06 December 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

With the gift boxes, you never got less than the amount you spent. If you don't think that's the case I advise you check your sources again. As you always get the gold equivalent for your money, getting the boxes should be seen just as buying a gold package, with the special thing about it being that, getting what you spend is a very rare minimum - our gift boxes have been programmed to almost always give you something more on top, hence the name. And if you bought gift boxes last year, they definitely left you with more than just the gold to show for it.

We don't like to build false expectations in our players' eyes. That is why everything concerning the gift boxes has been repeatedly and clearly broken down and clarified for our players so that they would always be perfectly aware of the deal they were making and how they were spending their money. Please don't throw at us such serious accusations.

Heck, the Christmas lottery of my hometown sells tickets, in bulk if you wish to buy more than one, there's only one winner for the big prize and if it's not you, you just exchanged all the money for worthless pieces of paper. Even a nice, old countryside holiday tradition can sounds shady if you look at it the wrong way.

Finally, premium content is what we sell to keep the game free to play, how I often specify. That is literally a special where, if you decide to spend, the balance would extremely likely end up being massively in your favor. Do you really dislike receiving presents so much? :P

 

Congratulations on using a truly terrible example in an attempt to justify the use of gambling mechanics in a PEGI 7 game Sael_, and congratulations for also completely ignoring the point I made in this thread a couple of pages ago, I imagine your bosses must be very proud of you for this. Unfortunately however, you forgot one very fundamental point, which is...

 

Lottery tickets are a legally acknowledged form of gambling. Legitimate lotteries are heavily age-restricted and subject to the gambling laws of whichever state/country/region the lottery is held in, and they are literally nothing more than a game of chance, where the outcome of your purchase is (or at least should be) entirely random, while the prizes themselves are, generally speaking, all declared up front before the draw takes place (sound familiar?)

 

And that's where the problem with WoT's purchasable loot boxes stems from. Yes, sure, so the value of the 'guaranteed contents' of a purchased WoT loot box might be equivalent to the actual cash purchase value of the box, but it's the extras, those few rare/premium items that a player randomly might or might not also 'win' on top of those guaranteed items that effectively means that purchasable WoT loot boxes are indeed a form of gambling, just like the lottery tickets in your example. It's that chance of randomly winning some or all of those extra items that drives most players to purchase (in some cases very large numbers of) the loot boxes in the first place, even if it means 'borrowing' their parents credit card details to make the purchase without permission.

 

And that's where WoT appears to fall onto shaky ground as far as PEGI goes. By PEGI's own definition it appears that a PEGI 7 rated game is NOT allowed to include any form of gambling mechanic, with the minimum rating needed for that particular 'theme' being PEGI 12, and yet here we are once again with WG/WoT blatantly ignoring that inconvenient little fact by having yet another Christmas event where purchasable lootboxes with a random element of chance to them are going to be on sale (everywhere except in the few countries that have already banned lootboxes for being a form of online gambling).

 

And to those in the peanut gallery who essentially suggest that it should be entirely the parents responsibility to ensure their kids don't burn a hole in their parents credit cards on this insidious form of online gambling, yes, you're right, to an extent. But there's two key points that need to be remembered about that whole argument, which are...

 

1: ALL kids are potentially sneaky little s**ts who will get into all sorts of trouble when they think they aren't being watched. Thus you can take literally all the precautions in the world as a parent, but a suitably determined kid WILL get their hands on their parents credit card details one way or another, and they don't necessarily need the physical card in their grubby little hands either when they use it to buy lootboxes or whatever else, because just seeing and remembering the few key details needed to use a credit card online really isn't that hard to do.

 

2: As well as blaming the parents for 'letting' their kids gamble online, a good portion of the blame for this mess absolutely should fall on the shoulders of the companies with seemingly questionable ethics who not only deliberately market insidious forms of gambling in their online games where at least some of the playerbase is legally underage when it comes to traditional gambling laws, but then repeatedly attempt to justify the inclusion of such mechanics by using so much corporate weasel-speak in the face of the clear and present facts of the matter. Ultimately, if the companies didn't include such questionable gambling mechanics in their games, there wouldn't be the often overwhelming incentive/enticement for kids to 'borrow' a parents credit card to sneakily buy stuff online in the first place.

 

So at the end of the day, either WG need to get WoT re-rated to at least PEGI 12 (or whichever other rating PEGI deems appropriate for a game that occasionally has gambling mechanics in it) , or WG need to alter the parameters of their purchasable loot boxes, so that the element of chance is entirely removed and the only contents in each and every purchased chest are guaranteed.

 

Those are the options WG, which is it to be?



Miepie #167 Posted 07 December 2019 - 12:38 PM

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View PostFlint_74, on 07 December 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

Bla bla bla bla bla bla

 

Those are the options WG, which is it to be?

You have a very restricted brain. There are plenty of other options. To start with the most obvious and efficient one: kill ALL the children in the world. :izmena:



reesku #168 Posted 07 December 2019 - 01:07 PM

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View PostFlint_74, on 07 December 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

 

You're clearly unhappy you spent some money on the boxes last years and didn't got the tank you wanted. And now you're trying to catch every little thing which you possibly can to complain, without looking like you're crying that you didn't win yourself (which isn't working tbh).

 

Tell me, what difference does the PEGI logo make really? If they're kids which are willing to disobey their parents to the point of stealing their CC and using it for online purchases, how come the PEGI logo/rating or whatever is gonna stop them from doing that? They gonna say oh no, I'm too young I'm not gonna play this game, I steal the CC details and spend it on something else because this game is PEGI12 and I'm only 9?

 

Come on, give me a break. Kids can steal CC details and go on purchase legally a lot worse things on the internet than some boxes in a game.


Edited by reesku, 07 December 2019 - 01:09 PM.


lime_vortep #169 Posted 07 December 2019 - 01:21 PM

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To be honest, I do not really want the Obj. 703 or the E75TS. I want the SU-130PM and the JgPz E-100 skin! 

Flint_74 #170 Posted 07 December 2019 - 02:35 PM

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View Postreesku, on 07 December 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

You're clearly unhappy you spent some money on the boxes last years and didn't got the tank you wanted. And now you're trying to catch every little thing which you possibly can to complain, without looking like you're crying that you didn't win yourself (which isn't working tbh).

 

In actual fact, for the very few loot boxes I did purchase last year, I bought them all with zero expectations of winning anything other than the guaranteed contents, and of the couple of 'extras' that I did receive, I was more than happy with those. So no, you are completely incorrect in your observation.

 

View Postreesku, on 07 December 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

Tell me, what difference does the PEGI logo make really? If they're kids which are willing to disobey their parents to the point of stealing their CC and using it for online purchases, how come the PEGI logo/rating or whatever is gonna stop them from doing that? They gonna say oh no, I'm too young I'm not gonna play this game, I steal the CC details and spend it on something else because this game is PEGI12 and I'm only 9?

 

Come on, give me a break. Kids can steal CC details and go on purchase legally a lot worse things on the internet than some boxes in a game.

 

The PEGI rating system, and the symbols used by the system, are designed to be a form of easy-to-digest information and guidance to parents/children as to the types of content to be found in any given game, that is all, nothing more or less than that. How parents/children then choose to use that information when looking at games to buy is entirely up to them. However, in order for the rating to be actually meaningfully useful to potential purchasers of a game it does help if the rating accurately reflects the true content within the game, which, in the case of WoT, it seemingly doesn't anymore because WoT occasionally contains gambling mechanics in the form not only of seasonal/themed loot boxes, but now also random events like the recent sports betting event tied to actual match results of the Bundesliga.

 

At the same time though, the PEGI rating system is also designed to be a set of restrictions that games companies have to meet in order for their game to qualify for a particular rating. Thus, as it currently stands, the PEGI 7 rating apparently doesn't include the option to include any form of gambling mechanic within a game, at all, end of story. The minimum rating that does allow for gambling themes in a game however is PEGI 12. So WG have a problem on their hands, they can either continue to show themselves up for being just another predatory games developer only interested in putting profit ahead of the welfare of (some of the more vulnerable members of) their playerbase by continuing to include questionable gambling mechanics in their games, or they can take a step back from that questionable behaviour and alter the nature of their loot boxes to completely remove the element of chance, thereby not only making themselves look like the good guys within the games industry in the eyes of the public, but also avoiding potentially having to get their premier title re-rated to a higher rating by PEGI to account for the gambling mechanics occasionally employed in-game.

 

And yes, kids occasionally do dumb s**t, they're kids, and s**t happens, but kids of all ages don't need games companies full of adults, adults who have kids of their own and so really ought to know better, effectively enticing the kids who play their games to lie, cheat, steal, whatever, in order to buy something, or do something, in-game that the kids wouldn't ordinarily be allowed to buy/do in everyday public life because that particular thing is heavily age-restricted and enforced by law for a very good reason.


Edited by Flint_74, 07 December 2019 - 02:36 PM.


RaxipIx #171 Posted 07 December 2019 - 02:59 PM

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It's not gambling, to make an analogy, it's like  me going to the mall buy a six pack   that has a chance of having a gift in it.And i win an extra cup,lighter,key chain, or a minibar or  whatever. Some oft the prizes are small in value some are higher, and some six packs have no prizes at all.  Would you consider this gambling?

Another example, the Chio Chips(in my country, not sure if they had this in other country's,had a promo) where you could find in some of them  real money , from the smallest denomination to the highest.Smallest being roughly 2 Euros, highest more then 100 Euros. Is that gambling?

 

Gave the Chio Chips promo as an example because kids could buy it, it has no age restriction like alcohol or tobacco.

 

Just curious.

 


Edited by RaxipIx, 07 December 2019 - 03:00 PM.


BravelyRanAway #172 Posted 07 December 2019 - 03:13 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 07 December 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

It's not gambling, to make an analogy, it's like  me going to the mall buy a six pack   that has a chance of having a gift in it.And i win an extra cup,lighter,key chain, or a minibar or  whatever. Some oft the prizes are small in value some are higher, and some six packs have no prizes at all.  Would you consider this gambling?

Do you remember as a kid going into a shop to buy a pack of sealed football cards for a collection......and hoping you would get a rare one.....but more so, not get some you already have?

Don't get me started on gifts in cereal boxes.:hiding:



reesku #173 Posted 07 December 2019 - 03:16 PM

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View PostRaxipIx, on 07 December 2019 - 02:59 PM, said:

It's not gambling, to make an analogy, it's like  me going to the mall buy a six pack   that has a chance of having a gift in it.And i win an extra cup,lighter,key chain, or a minibar or  whatever. Some oft the prizes are small in value some are higher, and some six packs have no prizes at all.  Would you consider this gambling?

Another example, the Chio Chips(in my country, not sure if they had this in other country's,had a promo) where you could find in some of them  real money , from the smallest denomination to the highest.Smallest being roughly 2 Euros, highest more then 100 Euros. Is that gambling?

 

Gave the Chio Chips promo as an example because kids could buy it, it has no age restriction like alcohol or tobacco.

 

Just curious.

 

Exactly, or even other example, Kinder Surprise candy, you get a toy inside that chocolate egg, but you have no idea what kind of toy will it be, some might be more valuable to a kid the other less, and it's gambling. Bloody Ferrero corporation, addicting children to gambling from the youngest years!



Falathi #174 Posted 07 December 2019 - 03:29 PM

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View Postreesku, on 07 December 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

 

Exactly, or even other example, Kinder Surprise candy, you get a toy inside that chocolate egg, but you have no idea what kind of toy will it be, some might be more valuable to a kid the other less, and it's gambling. Bloody Ferrero corporation, addicting children to gambling from the youngest years!

 

To make things worse, the chocolate was guaranteed!
 



reesku #175 Posted 07 December 2019 - 03:35 PM

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View PostFalathi, on 07 December 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

 

To make things worse, the chocolate was guaranteed!
 

 

Yeah, chocolate + some kind of random toy and you don't know what it is. Just like in the boxes, you get 250gold guaranteed, tier 5 decoration to speed up the progress & in-game bonuses + one random thing from the list which specifies what could it be, that 1 random thing is also guaranteed, you just don't know what it is, so it's not gambling as you don't loose your money gaining nothing.



Zmago5000 #176 Posted 07 December 2019 - 03:57 PM

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View Postreesku, on 07 December 2019 - 03:35 PM, said:

 

Yeah, chocolate + some kind of random toy and you don't know what it is. Just like in the boxes, you get 250gold guaranteed, tier 5 decoration to speed up the progress & in-game bonuses + one random thing from the list which specifies what could it be, that 1 random thing is also guaranteed, you just don't know what it is, so it's not gambling as you don't loose your money gaining nothing.

 

if booxes are sold 2eur/ piece than 250 G per box isnt very good deal  is it?



Psticide #177 Posted 07 December 2019 - 04:13 PM

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do not waste your energy here flint, this is the mekka of digital goods addiction and collectors of reskins :) use your energy with your countries political representivies , belgium persisted and got the boxes banned, other countries will follow with enough persistance from concerned citizens like yourself.  Gambling or use of fear of missing out, its simply predatory and undefendable .

 

I cant wait for the xmass tree in garage, its desperatly needed distraction after the missed haloween event and i hope all the millions the lootboxes make are put back into the game and badly needed new maps and gamemodes as  2019 was a very very dissapointing year for me in wot content wize.  


Edited by Psticide, 07 December 2019 - 04:19 PM.


Cataphractarii #178 Posted 07 December 2019 - 04:15 PM

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Video reminds me of the Coke advert, holidays are coming, hmmm, I wonder, WG cola?

Gremlin182 #179 Posted 07 December 2019 - 04:35 PM

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Loorboxes are not gambling as such because you cannot actually lose you are spending say £10 and getting £10 of goods its exactly the same as buying £10 worth of hold or premium time from the game store.

However you also get something extra so its buy £10 of gold and get £10 of gold and some bonus stuff with an indeterminate value it may be worth another £2 or it could be £30.

So to that extent there is some random chance and you are taking a gamble.

However true gambling would be spend £10 buy a loot box and its completely empty sorry bad luck you lose.

 

I cannot back a horse spin the roulette wheel or buy a lottery ticket and when I lose get a free bet spin or lottery ticket.

People may be tempted to spend more to try to get a really good bonus but they cannot actually lose.

As for kids being tempted to use their parents credit details and buy stuff sorry that is still down to the parents for being too lax and not teaching their children better.

No reason everyone should suffer because of that.

If you kid does steal from you then make certain they never do it again don't blame others for your mistakes.

 

Even without loot boxes your kids could still gamble online or just buy loads of stuff

 



nighthawk24 #180 Posted 07 December 2019 - 04:35 PM

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If you buy loot boxes when event started, you can open them after the event has ended?

Please do a long time event this year so my friend can buy some loot boxes :)






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