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703 II (122) vs Defender + IS-3A .... where is the balance ?


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VarzA #1 Posted 14 December 2019 - 06:45 PM

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I'm going to get a lot of flak for this one, both for my conclusion and for the length of this post .... i hope you guys will hear me out about the situation we have here.

 

So, if you recall, a few yrs back, we got the Defender/252U introduced into the game, which eventually was resold and became more or less a staple of WG's offers, with it's winrate having stabilized.

Last Holidays, we had the IS-3A and when ppl were commenting about how it was broken and it should not enter into the game, WG was saying 'it's just a test comrade', only for those ppl's fears to have come true when it appeared in the lootboxes; 1yr later and many sales during pre-FL weeks, it's winrate has stabilized as well.

Let's take a little look at those winrates, shall we ?

 

252U - 53.88% winrate

Defender - 53.15% winrate

Averaged is probably around 53.5, if you weigh it, 53.35-53.4, either way it's 53+ winrate, the order of magnitude is clear.

IS-3A - 52.32% winrate, with about as many owners on the EU server as Defender (just 15-20k tanks less actually).

And LT-432 has 52.56% winrate (it doubles as a t7.5-8 medium due to how good it is and that improves it's odds).

 

Let's go back in time to December 2018.

Around the same time, WG made a commitement to the players that 2019 would be all about the balance (especially since the month prior they also introduced the LT-432 mentioned above which was 'balanced';) ), and they showed it to us in a lot of ways :

- Leopard 1 line buffed; not OP but nice now

- a balanced Skoda T27 entered the game

- a truly 'well' balanced line of british lights that everyone is happy about

- STB-1 buffed (overall nice)

- E100 and IS-4 line buffs cancelled (for the time being)

- 430U/430 nerfs cancelled, after a threadnaught was born on the RU forums (remember when SerB was saying EU players are whiners ?)

- AMX 30B buffs cancelled

- french wheelies that turned the game into gocarts and increased the incidence of turbogames making the MM a hell to experience and invalidating all but the t100 LT line and maybe the 13 105 a little

So the above is their track record after 1yr of balancing the game.

 

Now we are in December 2019, they released a new video about their plans of the future and i can't help but see a few similarities with last yr in how this new premium entered the game :

  • the 703 II (122) was not released to streamers ahead of lootboxes, just like IS-3A
  • they again claimed that they are just testing things out (in fact i posted in some of those threads flat out saying this will be the flagship of lootboxes 2020)
  • it's russian, because we need more russian premium tanks
  • lootboxes preferential, probably to be released steadily over the coming year to the public in various sales, probably about 1yr+ before it gets sold for gold (i don't think the IS-3A has been sold for gold so far)

 

But maybe the tank is fine, maybe i am just a crazy guy .... maybe i just like to stir stuff up, so let's take a look at it :

Overall gun stats : link

So it's an autoreloader with 2 shells, 5s intraclip reload, a IS-3A that loses 1 shell for other stuff; oh, and it also has way more ammo on board, good to know.

5s means for autoloaders you can't really unload on someone, it's more like you fire once, and you fall back, reload the 2nd shot, and if you are pushed, you can hurt him back, or you find another opportunity.

 

Mobility : link

Ok, so it's a heavier Defender, more hp in the engine (so not good to facehug this thing, it can push you up a wall if you have low engine power), with a hp/t inbetween Defender and IS-3A, but keeping IS-3A ground resists (which are better than defender's).

Turret traverse is weaker, but by sub 10%, i doubt most ppl would notice it big time.

 

Armor and other stuff : link

VIew range is usual russian thing, fire chance is same.

Ok, so armor seems similar, but .... it has the Defender side armor ?

Well, you can't really tell until you see the profile i guess, and no pics of the tank, just going by stats atm.

 

Ohhhh, i forgot the gun : link

Well, we know that Defender has bad gun handling, and the IS-3a is worse at gun handling, we can't expect to have the same gun as the IS-3A be as good as defender gun so ...... what ..... this can't be right.

There is something wrong with those stats.

 

I know, let's compare those gun handling stats with some average other tanks ... link

T-100 LT is the tracked light tank that has the best gun handling in the game (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong ... key word ... tracked, it's marginally better on gun handling than the american T92 light), T25 Pilot 1 is the medium t8 premium with the best gun handling in the game, and the T-44-100 is the 2nd best, known for it's amazing gun handling as well.

And if those stats are right, this thing is better than them on soft stats .... but it's in a slow tank and the slower more stable platform buff those gun handling softstats even further.

 

I tried to see the armor but i could only draw these conclusions from various sources :

  • roof is not overmatchable, 50mm strong
  • turret front is 220mm but rounded, around the gun mantlet there is a perimeter of weakspot of 220mm (you can see it in Dez's latest vid)
  • Upper plate is a more or less continous 140mm, head on it's 260mm effective, if angled you can push 310mm; it does have a weakspot .... tiny ... driver viewport, gl hitting that
  • lower plate is 90mm, 200mm effective head on, if you have to aim down to it, you could be looking at 220mm
  • side armor is 90-100mm with IS-3 levels of magic side armor as well

 

----------------------------------------

In conclusion, you may think i'm crazy, but here's what i think :

  • 'balance' is something that applies to non-russian tanks, while before we had powercreep across the board, now we seem to have powercreep strictly on russian tanks, must be some type of national bonus
  • MM and overall balance in the game is worse than 1yr ago
  • 703 II (122) will most likely settle around the 53% winrate, with good players actually enjoying the tank

 

To me, those winrates are not the mark of a well balanced tank, and this tank will do better than IS-3A, in fact it makes the IS-3A somewhat obsolete, it's only advantage remaining the 3rd shell in the fully loaded magazine.

 

PS: I did not win 703 II (122) this year, but i did win the Defender last year, i really don't like the tank and if WG offered i'd take the full gold value for it in a heartbeat.

LE: I corrected the intraclip reload as mentioned by GodTank2.


Edited by VarzA, 14 December 2019 - 07:02 PM.


GodTank2 #2 Posted 14 December 2019 - 06:53 PM

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Intra clip reload is 5 seconds not 3.

3 seconds is the charge time for a double shot.

 

The 703 II isnt even that amazing.



Desyatnik_Pansy #3 Posted 14 December 2019 - 06:55 PM

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View PostVarzA, on 14 December 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

I tried to see the armor but i could only draw these conclusions from various sources :

  • roof is not overmatchable, 50mm strong
  • turret front is 220mm but rounded, around the gun mantlet there is a perimeter of weakspot of 220mm (you can see it in Dez's latest vid)

 

Had this happen in I believe my 3rd game in it.

Spoiler

 

I got penned twice in the turret by the T34 (so let's go with 800 Since I can't see the damage there. Once in the mantlet as you mentioned, the other around the turret ring when I slightly angled it to try the IS-3 In middle as he poked) and lost the rest, bar that IS-3 Kill shot, to HE. Hulldown this thing is pretty damn ridiculous, shame I couldn't hit them back at all where I aimed (missed T26E5 Cupola at that distance 4 Times).



shikaka9 #4 Posted 14 December 2019 - 06:56 PM

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you heard Soviet anthem you understood everything

Dava_117 #5 Posted 14 December 2019 - 07:03 PM

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Defender is far worst IMO as it has tier 10 level of armour. 703II armour is not bad, but is not even that strong. 

LFP is in a level in wich tier 6 gold can pen, all the hull roof is 20mm, so aiming at it even 75mm guns can pen, and the gun mantlet and turret cheeks can be penned with tier 8 standard ammo if well aimed. The UFP is also 260 effective without normalization, so many premium ammo from tier 8 HT will punch trough it quite reliably.



VarzA #6 Posted 14 December 2019 - 07:04 PM

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View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 14 December 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

View PostVarzA, on 14 December 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

I tried to see the armor but i could only draw these conclusions from various sources :

  • roof is not overmatchable, 50mm strong
  • turret front is 220mm but rounded, around the gun mantlet there is a perimeter of weakspot of 220mm (you can see it in Dez's latest vid)

 

Had this happen in I believe my 3rd game in it.

Spoiler

 

I got penned twice in the turret by the T34 (so let's go with 800 Since I can't see the damage there. Once in the mantlet as you mentioned, the other around the turret ring when I slightly angled it to try the IS-3 In middle as he poked) and lost the rest, bar that IS-3 Kill shot, to HE. Hulldown this thing is pretty damn ridiculous, shame I couldn't hit them back at all where I aimed (missed T26E5 Cupola at that distance 4 Times).

 248mm of pen standard on T34, pen roll can go up to 300+, it's the only thing the tank has going for it (close to 300 on gold rounds).

 

View PostDava_117, on 14 December 2019 - 08:03 PM, said:

Defender is far worst IMO as it has tier 10 level of armour. 703II armour is not bad, but is not even that strong. 

LFP is in a level in wich tier 6 gold can pen, all the hull roof is 20mm, so aiming at it even 75mm guns can pen, and the gun mantlet and turret cheeks can be penned with tier 8 standard ammo if well aimed. The UFP is also 260 effective without normalization, so many premium ammo from tier 8 HT will punch trough it quite reliably.


In principle you are correct, but i have to mention some things :

  • 200mm head on LFP, is not easy to pen by t6 with gold, because of RNG and angling, it's more like t7 levels of pen, it depends on the class of tanks we are talking about
  • I have no idea on the hull roof, as the 3d model is still kinda messy on tanks.gg, but the turret roof seems to be 50mm; if the hull roof is 20mm, it will mean that arty will be somewhat damaging to this tank, more than normal
  • 220mm gun mantlet and cheeks are not easy to hit, to reliably roll a pen you need about 240-250mm, and that is the domain of t9's and more
  • the UFP is 260mm head on, but with angling it is pushed to 280-290, which is the domain of t9+ gold rounds

 

Due to the above, the tank is paper-ish to t9-10 levels of pen (and i am not referring to M46 patton and t54e1 here), but not to t8 levels of pen (unless you are referring to the odd ones out like T34 or TD's).


Edited by VarzA, 14 December 2019 - 07:10 PM.


snowlywhite #7 Posted 14 December 2019 - 07:04 PM

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man, I find the tank pretty crap. Ok, I'm biased since I don't like heavies, but:

 

1. intraclip is 5s. Aka - useless. At 3s you're struggling. At 5s...

2. dpm is crap. No rammer, add 4s if you empty the clip(which makes it uber crap). Ok, it's hard to empty the clip given the intraclip, but hey =))))

3. the changing gun seems horrid. Don't know if you can "change back" to the previous gun, but the changing between them seems horrid. If you can change back, ok, would be nice on corners as you could permanently shoot the outside gun.

snipping(for whatever's worth in such a tank) becomes even worse with the changing gun

4. the double barrel mechanic seems as cluncky as I predicted in another thread. Good luck penning both shots. Taking into acct you have only 1 aiming circle.

 

dunno, the fact that it's only 2 mediocre heavies in the boxes that I don't have(combined with the crap they pulled with bonuses) convinced me not to buy any box.

 

maybe if the tank was really good I would've bought a few for the thrill of it, but like this...

 

summing it up: good russian armor and bad russian gun handling/vr. And some gimmicks that are next to useless, but which eat into your dpm. Thanks, but no thanks. Can as well play is-3 for free...

 

p.s. - .44 accy. Almost as bad as t100lt :P  With 3.5s aim time... =)))

 

If that's not the definition of "hurr durr, I heavy", don't know what is.


Edited by snowlywhite, 14 December 2019 - 07:26 PM.


24doom24 #8 Posted 14 December 2019 - 07:56 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 14 December 2019 - 06:03 PM, said:

Defender is far worst IMO as it has tier 10 level of armour. 703II armour is not bad, but is not even that strong. 

LFP is in a level in wich tier 6 gold can pen, all the hull roof is 20mm, so aiming at it even 75mm guns can pen, and the gun mantlet and turret cheeks can be penned with tier 8 standard ammo if well aimed. The UFP is also 260 effective without normalization, so many premium ammo from tier 8 HT will punch trough it quite reliably.

Defender "tier 10 armour" suuure. It's turret gets cut through like butter nowadays. As long as a player has the 2 brain cells to tell them not to shoot the UFP then the defender is easy to deal with and is no longer in the OP category.


Edited by 24doom24, 14 December 2019 - 07:56 PM.


VarzA #9 Posted 14 December 2019 - 08:04 PM

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View Post24doom24, on 14 December 2019 - 08:56 PM, said:

Defender "tier 10 armour" suuure. It's turret gets cut through like butter nowadays. As long as a player has the 2 brain cells to tell them not to shoot the UFP then the defender is easy to deal with and is no longer in the OP category.


53.15 - 53.88 % winrates, while in principal i agree with you .... those winrates are still a reality.

Same as 52.32% for IS-3A.



snowlywhite #10 Posted 14 December 2019 - 08:17 PM

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ok, so I've checked now - you can bind a key for salvo, but you can't bind a key for "switch gun" if both of them are loaded.

 

Which makes this thing really awkward when playing a corner. Given that every other shot has to be done with the inner side gun, so you'll have to expose a lot of the tank. I mean, well, guess you can empty one of them in the wall and only fire every 2x seconds, but...



Bordhaw #11 Posted 14 December 2019 - 08:40 PM

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View PostVarzA, on 14 December 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'm going to get a lot of flak for this one, both for my conclusion and for the length of this post .... i hope you guys will hear me out about the situation we have here.

 

So, if you recall, a few yrs back, we got the Defender/252U introduced into the game, which eventually was resold and became more or less a staple of WG's offers, with it's winrate having stabilized.

Last Holidays, we had the IS-3A and when ppl were commenting about how it was broken and it should not enter into the game, WG was saying 'it's just a test comrade', only for those ppl's fears to have come true when it appeared in the lootboxes; 1yr later and many sales during pre-FL weeks, it's winrate has stabilized as well.

Let's take a little look at those winrates, shall we ?

 

252U - 53.88% winrate

Defender - 53.15% winrate

Averaged is probably around 53.5, if you weigh it, 53.35-53.4, either way it's 53+ winrate, the order of magnitude is clear.

IS-3A - 52.32% winrate, with about as many owners on the EU server as Defender (just 15-20k tanks less actually).

And LT-432 has 52.56% winrate (it doubles as a t7.5-8 medium due to how good it is and that improves it's odds).

 

Let's go back in time to December 2018.

Around the same time, WG made a commitement to the players that 2019 would be all about the balance (especially since the month prior they also introduced the LT-432 mentioned above which was 'balanced';) ), and they showed it to us in a lot of ways :

- Leopard 1 line buffed; not OP but nice now

- a balanced Skoda T27 entered the game

- a truly 'well' balanced line of british lights that everyone is happy about

- STB-1 buffed (overall nice)

- E100 and IS-4 line buffs cancelled (for the time being)

- 430U/430 nerfs cancelled, after a threadnaught was born on the RU forums (remember when SerB was saying EU players are whiners ?)

- AMX 30B buffs cancelled

- french wheelies that turned the game into gocarts and increased the incidence of turbogames making the MM a hell to experience and invalidating all but the t100 LT line and maybe the 13 105 a little

So the above is their track record after 1yr of balancing the game.

 

Now we are in December 2019, they released a new video about their plans of the future and i can't help but see a few similarities with last yr in how this new premium entered the game :

  • the 703 II (122) was not released to streamers ahead of lootboxes, just like IS-3A
  • they again claimed that they are just testing things out (in fact i posted in some of those threads flat out saying this will be the flagship of lootboxes 2020)
  • it's russian, because we need more russian premium tanks
  • lootboxes preferential, probably to be released steadily over the coming year to the public in various sales, probably about 1yr+ before it gets sold for gold (i don't think the IS-3A has been sold for gold so far)

 

But maybe the tank is fine, maybe i am just a crazy guy .... maybe i just like to stir stuff up, so let's take a look at it :

Overall gun stats : link

So it's an autoreloader with 2 shells, 5s intraclip reload, a IS-3A that loses 1 shell for other stuff; oh, and it also has way more ammo on board, good to know.

5s means for autoloaders you can't really unload on someone, it's more like you fire once, and you fall back, reload the 2nd shot, and if you are pushed, you can hurt him back, or you find another opportunity.

 

Mobility : link

Ok, so it's a heavier Defender, more hp in the engine (so not good to facehug this thing, it can push you up a wall if you have low engine power), with a hp/t inbetween Defender and IS-3A, but keeping IS-3A ground resists (which are better than defender's).

Turret traverse is weaker, but by sub 10%, i doubt most ppl would notice it big time.

 

Armor and other stuff : link

VIew range is usual russian thing, fire chance is same.

Ok, so armor seems similar, but .... it has the Defender side armor ?

Well, you can't really tell until you see the profile i guess, and no pics of the tank, just going by stats atm.

 

Ohhhh, i forgot the gun : link

Well, we know that Defender has bad gun handling, and the IS-3a is worse at gun handling, we can't expect to have the same gun as the IS-3A be as good as defender gun so ...... what ..... this can't be right.

There is something wrong with those stats.

 

I know, let's compare those gun handling stats with some average other tanks ... link

T-100 LT is the tracked light tank that has the best gun handling in the game (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong ... key word ... tracked, it's marginally better on gun handling than the american T92 light), T25 Pilot 1 is the medium t8 premium with the best gun handling in the game, and the T-44-100 is the 2nd best, known for it's amazing gun handling as well.

And if those stats are right, this thing is better than them on soft stats .... but it's in a slow tank and the slower more stable platform buff those gun handling softstats even further.

 

I tried to see the armor but i could only draw these conclusions from various sources :

  • roof is not overmatchable, 50mm strong
  • turret front is 220mm but rounded, around the gun mantlet there is a perimeter of weakspot of 220mm (you can see it in Dez's latest vid)
  • Upper plate is a more or less continous 140mm, head on it's 260mm effective, if angled you can push 310mm; it does have a weakspot .... tiny ... driver viewport, gl hitting that
  • lower plate is 90mm, 200mm effective head on, if you have to aim down to it, you could be looking at 220mm
  • side armor is 90-100mm with IS-3 levels of magic side armor as well

 

----------------------------------------

In conclusion, you may think i'm crazy, but here's what i think :

  • 'balance' is something that applies to non-russian tanks, while before we had powercreep across the board, now we seem to have powercreep strictly on russian tanks, must be some type of national bonus
  • MM and overall balance in the game is worse than 1yr ago
  • 703 II (122) will most likely settle around the 53% winrate, with good players actually enjoying the tank

 

To me, those winrates are not the mark of a well balanced tank, and this tank will do better than IS-3A, in fact it makes the IS-3A somewhat obsolete, it's only advantage remaining the 3rd shell in the fully loaded magazine.

 

PS: I did not win 703 II (122) this year, but i did win the Defender last year, i really don't like the tank and if WG offered i'd take the full gold value for it in a heartbeat.

LE: I corrected the intraclip reload as mentioned by GodTank2.

 

 

Players want OP tanks. That's nothing new and WG is doing what it does and what the players want. 



Dava_117 #12 Posted 14 December 2019 - 09:38 PM

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View PostVarzA, on 14 December 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

In principle you are correct, but i have to mention some things :

  • 200mm head on LFP, is not easy to pen by t6 with gold, because of RNG and angling, it's more like t7 levels of pen, it depends on the class of tanks we are talking about
  • I have no idea on the hull roof, as the 3d model is still kinda messy on tanks.gg, but the turret roof seems to be 50mm; if the hull roof is 20mm, it will mean that arty will be somewhat damaging to this tank, more than normal
  • 220mm gun mantlet and cheeks are not easy to hit, to reliably roll a pen you need about 240-250mm, and that is the domain of t9's and more
  • the UFP is 260mm head on, but with angling it is pushed to 280-290, which is the domain of t9+ gold rounds

 

Due to the above, the tank is paper-ish to t9-10 levels of pen (and i am not referring to M46 patton and t54e1 here), but not to t8 levels of pen (unless you are referring to the odd ones out like T34 or TD's).

 

Take into account normalization. UFP is probably 240-245mm against AP (penned it quite reliably with Mauschen 246 pen AP). LFP will be around 175-180. Sure 190ish pen APCR tanks will struggle, but may tier 6 HTs have around 210-220 pen APCR. The 122mm from the KV-85 uses as premium round the same shell the 703 use as standard and that is enought to pen the LFP of a 703 even at an angle. Not a fan of weackspots that require gold, but sure I prefere this over the 220-230mm LFP from the Defender. 

Turret roof is indeed 50mm. There are also 2 185mm cupolas that looks everything but easy to hit. But, if you consider the optimal engagement distance of 703, you should easily aim at the hull roof. Also there defender with its 50mm hull roof is far better armoured. 

IMO the tank is quite balanced. It reward a skillful use of angling and armour while punish people who just sit in the open. The DB mechanics is also not straight forward. As already mentioned by other, you can't really use it as an autoreloader due to the 5s required to switch the gun. That is almost half of a single gun reload time! And the wait time before you can blap someone for 780HP coupled with the lock time after double fire also require a timing and situation evaluation. 

IMO Defender is far more a noobtube tank, while this is a good brawler that require thinking to work well.



VarzA #13 Posted 14 December 2019 - 10:22 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 14 December 2019 - 10:38 PM, said:

 

IMO Defender is far more a noobtube tank, while this is a good brawler that require thinking to work well.

Good points, but you are missing the point of my thread.

 

Defender has that kind of a winrate, a winrate that is anything but normal, IS-3A has also an abnormal winrate, as does the LT-432.

The gun handling is good, too good ... maybe obscenely good when you combine it with the reduced mobility of a heavy.

Armor is good to great.

I suspect the winrate will settle towads 53% on this tank, probably higher than the winrate of the IS-3A, but not as good as that of the Defender.

 

This is not normal winrate, this makes a tank OP.

Where is the balance we were promised ?

 

Why is there balance only in non-russian tanks while russian ones are unbalanced.

Last yr we had a situation where there was overall powercreep into the game, now 1yr later, powercreep has remained in the russian tech tree but it has mostly been removed from the other tech trees in whatever implementations there have been (wheelies not withstanding).

This creates a situation where there will be a gap higher than normal between the russian tech tree (counting premiums here too) and the other tech trees.


Edited by VarzA, 14 December 2019 - 10:24 PM.


tajj7 #14 Posted 14 December 2019 - 10:31 PM

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IMO the 703 is meh, the Defender is way stronger because of the armour, it can push in the open even against tier 10s and will bounce a lot, and pretty much ignore most tier 8s and below frontally.

 

IS-3A has the firepower potential, it does 1.2k damage in 6s, and then reloads another shell in like 11s. 

 

703 has none of that, it's armour is wonky as all hell, the LFP feels worse than IS-3's, the turret seems to be able to get penned through the front by like 240-250 guns, and whilst it can snap, it still has poor base accuracy, aim time coupled with 221 APCR pen, which bounces a lot, meaning the gun trolls a lot. 

 

And it's neither a good auto-loader/reloader because of the 5s intra-clip and the double shot is a gimmick, 9/10 situations you won't be able to use it because of the charge up time, and when you do you have a huge down time.

 

Also global win rates are pretty useless. 

 

 


Edited by tajj7, 15 December 2019 - 10:25 AM.


RaxipIx #15 Posted 14 December 2019 - 11:06 PM

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Yeah, agree with taj it's meh tank.  Also using the 2 shot mechanic is so situational.Only played a few games in it, it's not a bad tank imo, but the 2x shot with the 3 second charge makes the double shot useless in many situations.

VarzA #16 Posted 14 December 2019 - 11:27 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 14 December 2019 - 11:31 PM, said:

 

Also global win rates are pretty useless. 

 

 

 

Then there can be no argument made for why the 268 4 needed nerfing and 430U/430 do in fact need nerfing.



SamuraiShakaViking #17 Posted 14 December 2019 - 11:53 PM

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Going back to the op and some important points;

As mentioned, all LTs (besides Russian) need a new role (after wheeled vehicles , and 432).

Why delay buffing the IS4 etc. Again  and other obviously outdated powercrept tech tree tanks.

If we increase the balance of some now unbalanced (eg buff underpowered powercrept) tanks, we increase the balance of all tanks.

Surely some tech tree tanks should be balanced to counter weight the new op premium 2.0 trend.

Dava_117 #18 Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:22 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 14 December 2019 - 10:22 PM, said:

Good points, but you are missing the point of my thread.

 

Defender has that kind of a winrate, a winrate that is anything but normal, IS-3A has also an abnormal winrate, as does the LT-432.

The gun handling is good, too good ... maybe obscenely good when you combine it with the reduced mobility of a heavy.

Armor is good to great.

I suspect the winrate will settle towads 53% on this tank, probably higher than the winrate of the IS-3A, but not as good as that of the Defender.

 

This is not normal winrate, this makes a tank OP.

Where is the balance we were promised ?

 

Why is there balance only in non-russian tanks while russian ones are unbalanced.

Last yr we had a situation where there was overall powercreep into the game, now 1yr later, powercreep has remained in the russian tech tree but it has mostly been removed from the other tech trees in whatever implementations there have been (wheelies not withstanding).

This creates a situation where there will be a gap higher than normal between the russian tech tree (counting premiums here too) and the other tech trees.

 

Remember it's also the second day the tank is in game. You can't really consider the WR reliable at this point. Most player don't know how to fight it.  

Yes, gun handling is good, but gun handling is the fundamental characteristic for a brawler. The accuracy, on the other hand, is terrible as it should be for a tank that is meant to fight at close range. Mobility is avarage, armour is solid but not noob proof. Looks a quite well balanced to me. And my fighting experience against them are positive. It's a tank you can't ignore, but not so strong you struggle to fight with, unlike the Defender.



Dragos_CS #19 Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:34 AM

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At least it doesnt bounce tier 10 HEAT off the upper plate like the defender.

VarzA #20 Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:51 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 15 December 2019 - 01:22 AM, said:

 

Remember it's also the second day the tank is in game. You can't really consider the WR reliable at this point. Most player don't know how to fight it.  

Yes, gun handling is good, but gun handling is the fundamental characteristic for a brawler. The accuracy, on the other hand, is terrible as it should be for a tank that is meant to fight at close range. Mobility is avarage, armour is solid but not noob proof. Looks a quite well balanced to me. And my fighting experience against them are positive. It's a tank you can't ignore, but not so strong you struggle to fight with, unlike the Defender.


Those winrates i mentioned are of the Defender (2yrs in the game), IS-3A (1yr after buff) and LT-432 (1yr in the game).

I never mentioned the winrate of the 703 II (122), i have no idea what it is, i am going strictly off the statistics of the tank and the replays i have seen so far.

 

The 53% winrate i suspect, is the winrate the 703 II (122) will settle on after about 6 months into the game, and the arguments for that are in the OP i made above.

23:52 Added after 1 minute

View PostDragos_CS, on 15 December 2019 - 01:34 AM, said:

At least it doesnt bounce tier 10 HEAT off the upper plate like the defender.

 

Don't give them ideas, incoming 160mm upper plate, because it needs armor ... gun handling is bad and all that (wow, i managed to say that with a straight face). :P






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