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Lights don't get rewarded enough for spotting damage


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CPTANT #1 Posted 16 December 2019 - 12:40 PM

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Lights are already in a bad spot because most maps now allow heavies/meds to determine the outcome in close quarters but sometimes you still have good spoting games.

 

However the spotting assistance isn't nearly rewarded as much as doing the damage!

 

I just had a t-50 game with 1416 spotting damage (and 1 kill with 29 damage), which is extremely high for a tier 5 game, it literally turned the game around and only one player did more actual damage than that. But in terms of reward you get placed midway on the list. Players with half that damage get ranked above you.

 

The spotting is the entire point of the role and that damage simply wouldn't be there without it. It would be nice if in the few games were lights determine the fight they are actually rewarded for it.



BR33K1_PAWAH #2 Posted 16 December 2019 - 12:46 PM

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Also you get nothing for capturing enemy base.

Just saying.



Geno1isme #3 Posted 16 December 2019 - 12:55 PM

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View PostCPTANT, on 16 December 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

The spotting is the entire point of the role and that damage simply wouldn't be there without it. It would be nice if in the few games were lights determine the fight they are actually rewarded for it.

In my experience they generally do. Of course there are always a few exceptions, but the system has to work with just numbers, it can't really analyze which actions were important.

 

View PostCPTANT, on 16 December 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

I just had a t-50 game with 1416 spotting damage (and 1 kill with 29 damage), which is extremely high for a tier 5 game, it literally turned the game around and only one player did more actual damage than that. But in terms of reward you get placed midway on the list. Players with half that damage get ranked above you.

XP isn't all about damage. Also 1400 assist at T5 is certainly pretty decent, but not "extremely" high, just a bit more than the equivalent of two heavy tanks (so like 5-6k at T10).

And for the ranking you also have to look at the actual differences. If it was a decent team performance then often enough a few XP can make quite a difference between ranks.



mjs_89 #4 Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:08 PM

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Any tank gets 50% of the xp and credits awarded for any damage they spot. Seems like a fair deal to me. But, for the sake of the argument, let's assume WG buffed that to 75%. Do you really think that would be good for the game? TDs not shooting what you spot because you'd get most of the rewards? Nope, I wouldn't want that. Besides, LTs are still tanks. They have guns. Use them and your results will improve.

CPTANT #5 Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:30 PM

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View Postmjs_89, on 16 December 2019 - 12:08 PM, said:

Any tank gets 50% of the xp and credits awarded for any damage they spot. Seems like a fair deal to me. But, for the sake of the argument, let's assume WG buffed that to 75%. Do you really think that would be good for the game? TDs not shooting what you spot because you'd get most of the rewards? Nope, I wouldn't want that. Besides, LTs are still tanks. They have guns. Use them and your results will improve.

 

Just have the reward total be above 100%. Nothing wrong with rewarding teamwork more than going solo. And using your gun is situational, giving away your great spotting position for some measly damage from your main gun is just dumb in many situations.

 

 


Edited by CPTANT, 16 December 2019 - 01:30 PM.


GodTank2 #6 Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:34 PM

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View Postmjs_89, on 16 December 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

Any tank gets 50% of the xp and credits awarded for any damage they spot. Seems like a fair deal to me. But, for the sake of the argument, let's assume WG buffed that to 75%. Do you really think that would be good for the game? TDs not shooting what you spot because you'd get most of the rewards? Nope, I wouldn't want that. Besides, LTs are still tanks. They have guns. Use them and your results will improve.

 

Do you really think that a TD is not gonna shoot a tank because someone else spotted it?



Cobra6 #7 Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:44 PM

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View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 16 December 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

Also you get nothing for capturing enemy base.

Just saying.


Well that is logical, capping base only removed XP/credits from everyone as the match is artificially shortened while spotting damage benefits everyone (as you can do more damage and thus get more income).

 

I do agree spotting damage should give higher rewards *OR* that all light tanks should get viable standard ammo to engage targets at range so they can do the damage themselves.

 

Cobra 6

 

 



Gixxer66 #8 Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:46 PM

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Just checked some of my light tank replays - seems like a fair amount of XP for spotting.

 

My most resent light tank replay I uploaded to wotreplays was a T8 game in an LTG ( T7 ) with 4.3K Spotting and 180 Damage - finished 2nd on XP.  1.5K assisted is OK for T5, but without any direct damage or more spotting it's not Ace tanker material.

 

For a good spotting game at T5 I'd hope for 2K upwards, more on a good light tank map.



CPTANT #9 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 16 December 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

Just checked some of my light tank replays - seems like a fair amount of XP for spotting.

 

My most resent light tank replay I uploaded to wotreplays was a T8 game in an LTG ( T7 ) with 4.3K Spotting and 180 Damage - finished 2nd on XP.  1.5K assisted is OK for T5, but without any direct damage or more spotting it's not Ace tanker material.

 

For a good spotting game at T5 I'd hope for 2K upwards, more on a good light tank map.

 

Sounds nice in theory, but in practise I find getting spotting assistance to be way harder and situational on average than direct damage. Being both harder AND less rewarding is just a mediocre combination.



DangerMouse #10 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:05 PM

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Kills, its all about the kills, that's where all the juicy exp is anyway.

CPTANT #11 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:18 PM

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View PostDangerMouse, on 16 December 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

Kills, its all about the kills, that's where all the juicy exp is anyway.

 

Yes but it seems spotting for a kill isn't actually rewarded except for the damage, is it?



Gixxer66 #12 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:19 PM

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View PostCPTANT, on 16 December 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

Sounds nice in theory, but in practise I find getting spotting assistance to be way harder and situational on average than direct damage. Being both harder AND less rewarding is just a mediocre combination.

 

Spotting assistance is very map dependant I'll grant you that, but some maps it's just a case of bush w***ing for the 1st 3 or 4 minutes of the game while you make a cuppa, not alot of skill involved. Just a case of spotting areas that 1. Enemy tanks will cross and 2. Your team are in a position to shoot.

 

It's entirely possible to be top on XP with zero damage by spotting damage alone, and yes I have a replay of one such game



DangerMouse #13 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:22 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 16 December 2019 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

Spotting assistance is very map dependant I'll grant you that, but some maps it's just a case of bush w***ing for the 1st 3 or 4 minutes of the game while you make a cuppa, not alot of skill involved. Just a case of spotting areas that 1. Enemy tanks will cross and 2. Your team are in a position to shoot.

 

It's entirely possible to be top on XP with zero damage by spotting damage alone, and yes I have a replay of one such game

 

Yep done that in the Chinese Tier 6 TD on Malinovka, no scouts so went and sat in the spotting bush with Binos and watched the enemy melt while sipping a cup of Tea.



CPTANT #14 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:26 PM

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View PostDangerMouse, on 16 December 2019 - 01:22 PM, said:

 

Yep done that in the Chinese Tier 6 TD on Malinovka, no scouts so went and sat in the spotting bush with Binos and watched the enemy melt while sipping a cup of Tea.

 

Outliers. Average spotting assistance is lower than the average damage  of a same tier vehicle.


Edited by CPTANT, 16 December 2019 - 02:27 PM.


Gixxer66 #15 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:38 PM

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View PostCPTANT, on 16 December 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

 

Outliers. Average spotting assistance is lower than the average damage  of a same tier vehicle.

 

Source please.



CPTANT #16 Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:57 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 16 December 2019 - 01:38 PM, said:

 

Source please.

 

https://wotclans.com.br/Tanks/19201

 

Even a t-100 does more direct damage than spotting damage on average.

 

and so does a t-50:

 

https://wotclans.com.br/Tanks/9473

 

And those are LIGHT TANKS.

 

This site only tracks clan players though, most sites don't have this information because it wasn't available in the API and wasn't included in wn8. I suspect the average spots for random players are actually lower.


Edited by CPTANT, 16 December 2019 - 02:59 PM.


Stevies_Team #17 Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:24 PM

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Totally agree that spotting needs to be better rewarded

 

It's one of the major game weaknesses that needs to be sorted

 

In the real world, intel on enemy movements is highly sought after and valued by any commander


Edited by Stevies_Team, 16 December 2019 - 03:26 PM.


Gixxer66 #18 Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:33 PM

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View PostCPTANT, on 16 December 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

https://wotclans.com.br/Tanks/19201

 

Even a t-100 does more direct damage than spotting damage on average.

 

and so does a t-50:

 

https://wotclans.com.br/Tanks/9473

 

And those are LIGHT TANKS.

 

This site only tracks clan players though, most sites don't have this information because it wasn't available in the API and wasn't included in wn8. I suspect the average spots for random players are actually lower.

 

From the site quoted:

 

"About this site

This site tracks the status and evolution of selected clans on the World of Tanks game, for XBOX and PlayStation."

 

it's Console only not PC, different game. You have no statistics relating to the PC game.



CPTANT #19 Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:39 PM

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View PostGixxer66, on 16 December 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

From the site quoted:

 

"About this site

This site tracks the status and evolution of selected clans on the World of Tanks game, for XBOX and PlayStation."

 

it's Console only not PC, different game. You have no statistics relating to the PC game.

 

Like I said most stat sites don't track spotting assistance, if you have better numbers I would love to see them. It is however consistent with my own experience.



Long_Range_Sniper #20 Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:40 PM

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I am fine with the XP allocation. A light tank is still a tank and it’s all about maximising ALL the attributes like spotting, mobility and in the  right circumstances the firepower.




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