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Object 703 II is the over hype itself


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Doug_DeMuro #1 Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:34 PM

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I don't know what the cause is. Whether it's jealousy, people hating Russian bias, people hating how you cannot buy the tank or people just generally not having a clue, but the main thing is this.

 

The 703 II is NOT the next Defender or any other overpowered/broken tier 8 premium.

 

Yes, it has a double barrel and yes, it has a potential of 780 damage in a single go, so that makes it good on paper. The rest of the tank however, it's not overpowered by far. Gun stats, well, it's just your ages old D-25T with APCR so the performance of the gun as individual is average, worse than for example the IS-3. The two shot mechanic is a gimmick at best. Before being able to fire both guns, you need to wait 3 seconds and even then there's a chance (and for higher tiered opponents with 221 pen a substantial chance) that one or two rounds don't penetrate.

 

The tank is not incredibly fast, the armor is not great because of the woeful LFP, literally everything is balanced around the 780 dmg it can burst out very situationally. Honestly, it's close to a pre-buff IS-3A with one tiny situational gimmick.

 

This would all be fine, except people are now displaying their displeasure by focus firing you (yes, I've been a secundary attack and people turned around and started shooting me instead), and calling you out for '703 drivers are all [edited]'. 

 

Yes, I can ignore that, but it's the core of the problem that is bothering me. It's a Russian heavy, lootbox exclusive, with a new mechanic. General rule of the people: "it must be overpowered and/or broken!" But it's so not OP, not Defender levels. It's an average tank with a situational gimmick. End.

 

Oh, and if you didn't get one in the lootboxes, wait for the next test server as I am relatively certain the 2barrel branche is rolling out soon. The tank I'd more enjoy getting in the boxes is the E 75 TS.


Edited by Lil_Nas_X, 16 December 2019 - 03:41 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:37 PM

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View PostLil_Nas_X, on 16 December 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

people just generally not having a clue,

 

It's this one.



TungstenHitman #3 Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View PostLil_Nas_X, on 16 December 2019 - 02:34 PM, said:

Gun stats, well, it's just your ages old D-25T with APCR so the performance of the gun as individual is average, worse than for example the IS-3. 

 

The only thing about that is, that unless these stats are wrong which is possible since its a new tank, otherwise so far as the gun handling goes its twice as good and almost twice as good soft stats compared to any other tank, including an IS-3. In this game, soft stats are what really govern where those shells go while we're side scraping and poking over crests and scooting forwards and back baiting shots and making shots. This tank on paper, should be landing more than any other tank that does that sort of playstyle.

 

Here, let me show you what I mean. This is soft stats and the famous "Russian bias". 

 



falcon_96 #4 Posted 16 December 2019 - 04:08 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 16 December 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

 

The only thing about that is, that unless these stats are wrong which is possible since its a new tank, otherwise so far as the gun handling goes its twice as good and almost twice as good soft stats compared to any other tank, including an IS-3. In this game, soft stats are what really govern where those shells go while we're side scraping and poking over crests and scooting forwards and back baiting shots and making shots. This tank on paper, should be landing more than any other tank that does that sort of playstyle.

 

Here, let me show you what I mean. This is soft stats and the famous "Russian bias". 

 

 

I think the soft stats are so good in order to make the double shot mechanic work, if the target is moving you need to keep tracking it for 3sec before the guns shoot, which means turning the turret and moving the tank if you are going for a shot around a corner. If it had bad values the double shot would be rather useless.



ChristOfTheAbyss #5 Posted 16 December 2019 - 04:19 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 16 December 2019 - 03:58 PM, said:

 

The only thing about that is, that unless these stats are wrong which is possible since its a new tank, otherwise so far as the gun handling goes its twice as good and almost twice as good soft stats compared to any other tank, including an IS-3. In this game, soft stats are what really govern where those shells go while we're side scraping and poking over crests and scooting forwards and back baiting shots and making shots. This tank on paper, should be landing more than any other tank that does that sort of playstyle.

 

Here, let me show you what I mean. This is soft stats and the famous "Russian bias". 

 

 

Those soft stats govern how big the aim circle gets while moving the tank or turret. They have nothing to do with where the shots go.  The dispersion is what affects where shots go.



TungstenHitman #6 Posted 16 December 2019 - 04:35 PM

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View PostChristOfTheAbyss, on 16 December 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

 

Those soft stats govern how big the aim circle gets while moving the tank or turret. They have nothing to do with where the shots go.  The dispersion is what affects where shots go.

 

The shots can go anywhere within the dispersion circle though as was outlined numerous times on this forum by various ppl, there is an "invisible" inner circle where the shots will tend to go rather than the outer extremities for most shots. The soft stats govern the bloom during of that dispersion circle during movements, turning and turret traverse etc so when you have them looking that good it basically means your bloom does not change a great deal from when it is fully aimed and so this invisible inner circle will also not bloom much so most your shots will hit where you are aiming without being tricked into thinking they are not based on your velocity vs the moment of shooting vs the velocity of the target, all of which can trick a player into thinking the shot went dramatically wild of its mark.

 

On the other hand, the tanks with the bad soft stats, their dispersion circle will bloom very dramatically when they scoot forwards and backwards, swing there turrets around and shoot on the move which means of course their shots have a much worse chance of hitting the target they are loosely aiming at but of course, this is because the invisible inner circle most shots will go to is also much bigger so it's not surprising but of course very frustrating. 

 

Edit- Of course, I do not have some sort of deep insight into this game mechanics and there's always potential for other included stats that nobody really knows about but the short of it all is that when it comes to soft stats, better is more accurate to hit what you are aiming at while playing a heavy tank the way it's normally played, poking, side scrapping, always lots of little movements. 

 

When tanks are fully aimed and nothing moves at all, then sure, your .3 dispersion is going to be better than a .4 but this is more of a TD sort of stat. Even at that, generally there is always going to be some movement as you lead your shot by either moving your gun in its casemate or by moving its turret so generally, always a little bit of soft stats even on the most static tanks.


Edited by TungstenHitman, 16 December 2019 - 04:40 PM.


Zylon0 #7 Posted 16 December 2019 - 04:40 PM

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You apologists will look so strange next month, when the winrate statistics poor out for the obj 703.

You can say its fine, as that is an opinion, but stats will not lie.

 

We all know this thing along with the other OP premiums is not balanced in any way compared to all the other tier 8 tanks it faces.

Not to mention how much this tank wrecks lower tiers as a side problem.



TungstenHitman #8 Posted 16 December 2019 - 04:51 PM

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View PostZylon0, on 16 December 2019 - 03:40 PM, said:

You apologists will look so strange next month, when the winrate statistics poor out for the obj 703.

You can say its fine, as that is an opinion, but stats will not lie.

 

We all know this thing along with the other OP premiums is not balanced in any way compared to all the other tier 8 tanks it faces.

Not to mention how much this tank wrecks lower tiers as a side problem.

 

I wouldn't have any opinion formed of it yet so far as it being strong or weak. As you say, time will tell. It's and entirely new mechanic with a lot to learn and master so I would imagine that those who dislike it now, if they stick with it and learn it well, will grow to enjoy it and their results will invariably improve. Then and only then will we see where this tanks strength is at. So far, I have encountered them with mixed results at both ends of the scale.

 

One this in this game that's for sure though, having a variable alpha with multiple delivery options is a very nice and strong attribute in this game, it's what makes the Italian A-R system(and IS3-A) so potent. When you need big alpha, you have it but when you don't, you can just play it like a normal single shooter and so you don't suffer the huge reload of a big alpha gun that has no other option when the needs require just a few smaller shots while equally if you need that big alpha one shot, it's there too.

 

We can see a big alpha tank get killed by a few low hp tanks that rush it since it can only kill one tank at a time so it will kill one, then killed by the other one or two low hp tanks during its reload whereas with the DB system and the A-R system, you have the luxury of playing the tank like a single shooter and so if you get rushed by the same several low hp targets, that's bread and butter for a tank with this style of firepower delivery since you can just pop a couple of them fast and they're both dead or 3 or 4 low hp tanks in the case of an Italian but equally, you always got that big alpha mag potential or in this case, that big DB boom. You can't say that's not a nice attribute to have in a gun. Maybe the two different line of sights from two different barrels and the fact it can't squeeze both barrels on a lower plate all the time might be a pain in the backside though.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #9 Posted 16 December 2019 - 05:04 PM

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View PostZylon0, on 16 December 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:

We all know this thing along with the other OP premiums is not balanced in any way compared to all the other tier 8 tanks it faces.

Not to mention how much this tank wrecks lower tiers as a side problem.

 

We don't know any such thing. The tank has been out for two minutes and just as many low skilled players have thrown money at WG to get it as good players.

 



ChristOfTheAbyss #10 Posted 16 December 2019 - 06:03 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 16 December 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

 

The shots can go anywhere within the dispersion circle though as was outlined numerous times on this forum by various ppl, there is an "invisible" inner circle where the shots will tend to go rather than the outer extremities for most shots. The soft stats govern the bloom during of that dispersion circle during movements, turning and turret traverse etc so when you have them looking that good it basically means your bloom does not change a great deal from when it is fully aimed and so this invisible inner circle will also not bloom much so most your shots will hit where you are aiming without being tricked into thinking they are not based on your velocity vs the moment of shooting vs the velocity of the target, all of which can trick a player into thinking the shot went dramatically wild of its mark.

 

On the other hand, the tanks with the bad soft stats, their dispersion circle will bloom very dramatically when they scoot forwards and backwards, swing there turrets around and shoot on the move which means of course their shots have a much worse chance of hitting the target they are loosely aiming at but of course, this is because the invisible inner circle most shots will go to is also much bigger so it's not surprising but of course very frustrating. 

 

Edit- Of course, I do not have some sort of deep insight into this game mechanics and there's always potential for other included stats that nobody really knows about but the short of it all is that when it comes to soft stats, better is more accurate to hit what you are aiming at while playing a heavy tank the way it's normally played, poking, side scrapping, always lots of little movements.

 

When tanks are fully aimed and nothing moves at all, then sure, your .3 dispersion is going to be better than a .4 but this is more of a TD sort of stat. Even at that, generally there is always going to be some movement as you lead your shot by either moving your gun in its casemate or by moving its turret so generally, always a little bit of soft stats even on the most static tanks.

 

That's a long way saying pretty much what I said. Of course good bloom values help you to be more accurate more often, but as no-one really just derps around without aiming the dispersion is what decides where the shot goes. The aiming just takes some tanks longer than others. And small movements dont cause much bloom as the movements, well, are small. Big movements that meds fe. do on the other hand do. That is why heavies can get away with worse bloom values as they are generally slower which lessens the effect of bad bloom.

 

Also, if you are leading you put your aim where you expect the enemy tank to be and fully aim, not move your cursor the whole time. This is also why your own aim is better than aimbot.



_Potato_from_Poland #11 Posted 16 December 2019 - 06:10 PM

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Where do you need aimtime when your aiming circle never grows? Gun handling is so good im actually thinking about dropping vert stabs over binos :D

HassenderZerhacker #12 Posted 16 December 2019 - 08:33 PM

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View PostLil_Nas_X, on 16 December 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

I don't know what the cause is. Whether it's jealousy, people hating Russian bias, people hating how you cannot buy the tank or people just generally not having a clue, but the main thing is this.

 

The 703 II is NOT the next Defender or any other overpowered/broken tier 8 premium.

 

Yes, it has a double barrel and yes, it has a potential of 780 damage in a single go, so that makes it good on paper. The rest of the tank however, it's not overpowered by far. Gun stats, well, it's just your ages old D-25T with APCR so the performance of the gun as individual is average, worse than for example the IS-3. The two shot mechanic is a gimmick at best. Before being able to fire both guns, you need to wait 3 seconds and even then there's a chance (and for higher tiered opponents with 221 pen a substantial chance) that one or two rounds don't penetrate.

 

The tank is not incredibly fast, the armor is not great because of the woeful LFP, literally everything is balanced around the 780 dmg it can burst out very situationally. Honestly, it's close to a pre-buff IS-3A with one tiny situational gimmick.

 

This would all be fine, except people are now displaying their displeasure by focus firing you (yes, I've been a secundary attack and people turned around and started shooting me instead), and calling you out for '703 drivers are all [edited]'. 

 

Yes, I can ignore that, but it's the core of the problem that is bothering me. It's a Russian heavy, lootbox exclusive, with a new mechanic. General rule of the people: "it must be overpowered and/or broken!" But it's so not OP, not Defender levels. It's an average tank with a situational gimmick. End.

 

Oh, and if you didn't get one in the lootboxes, wait for the next test server as I am relatively certain the 2barrel branche is rolling out soon. The tank I'd more enjoy getting in the boxes is the E 75 TS.

 

most 703 drivers I see are unicums.

the turret is impenetrable and mostly they camp somewhere hull down.

maybe the 703 is mediocre compared to other Russian tanks, but the turret makes it superior to many other nations' tanks.

and it has no trouble sniping a Conqueror AX's cupola from 100m. makes it OP enough in my book.

 


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 16 December 2019 - 08:34 PM.


pihip #13 Posted 16 December 2019 - 08:46 PM

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What worries me about this thing is the armor. The turret is semi-invincible with pretty much no weakspots so if you can hulldown and there's no arty poking you good luck dislodging a 703 unless you have high caliber HE (or can flank it). Also the UFP is very strong and the sides are covered by big slabs of magic Soviet spaced armor.

Even if the double shotgun type of gun is a gimmick, people will get used to it and learn to time their 780 bombs, just give the new 703 owners some time to adapt. And of course, the ridiculously good soft stats (we have some Tier 10 meds with worse gun handling, just saying).

I do agree with OP on one thing though - I see E 75 TS as the superior tank because it's more well rounded, and imho superior to the M54 Renegade as well (no big tumor on the turret, hull can actually sidescrape).

But hey, as my stats show I did poorly with almost every Soviet heavy (even Defender), so maybe it's just me not liking Soviet heavies? :D

hasnainrakha57 #14 Posted 16 December 2019 - 09:01 PM

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View Postpihip, on 16 December 2019 - 07:46 PM, said:

What worries me about this thing is the armor. The turret is semi-invincible with pretty much no weakspots so if you can hulldown and there's no arty poking you good luck dislodging a 703 unless you have high caliber HE (or can flank it). Also the UFP is very strong and the sides are covered by big slabs of magic Soviet spaced armor.

Even if the double shotgun type of gun is a gimmick, people will get used to it and learn to time their 780 bombs, just give the new 703 owners some time to adapt. And of course, the ridiculously good soft stats (we have some Tier 10 meds with worse gun handling, just saying).

I do agree with OP on one thing though - I see E 75 TS as the superior tank because it's more well rounded, and imho superior to the M54 Renegade as well (no big tumor on the turret, hull can actually sidescrape).

But hey, as my stats show I did poorly with almost every Soviet heavy (even Defender), so maybe it's just me not liking Soviet heavies? :D

Meh just killed a unicum in his 703 II in 1vs1 but I was in tier 9 and both of use were showing turrets only. Within min I reduced his health to 200 until he was forced to leave then again he came and baam dead it's simple load gold and shoot between the gun mantlet and it's big weakspots u can't miss.

20:06 Added after 4 minute
I would say it's useless tank for me I perform way more better in is3 then double barrel u can check ma stats. I really hate that 2.5 second delay between 2shots u just can't aim at close range even it's kinda hard when u r holding the mouse button and at the same time moving mouse coz ppl are waving their tank.  It happend to many times aiming at guy and then he suddenly turns to take hit at track baaam no DMG. Maybe I suck at playing double barrel.

FluffyRedFox #15 Posted 16 December 2019 - 09:32 PM

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Don't really see why the armour wouldn't be that great just because of the lower plate? It's hardly difficult to hide a lower plate and its not like the rest of the armour profile is weak, having a fantastic armour layout for sidescraping and hulldown play.

pihip #16 Posted 16 December 2019 - 09:42 PM

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View Posthasnainrakha57, on 16 December 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

Meh just killed a unicum in his 703 II in 1vs1 but I was in tier 9 and both of use were showing turrets only. Within min I reduced his health to 200 until he was forced to leave then again he came and baam dead it's simple load gold and shoot between the gun mantlet and it's big weakspots u can't miss.


Fragging a tank by loading gold is hardly a reason to claim the fragged tank is weak (imho, it is no reason at all).



hasnainrakha57 #17 Posted 16 December 2019 - 09:58 PM

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View Postpihip, on 16 December 2019 - 08:42 PM, said:


Fragging a tank by loading gold is hardly a reason to claim the fragged tank is weak (imho, it is no reason at all).

Did I ever mentioned in my post that the tank has weak armor?. You are saying in your post that tank has less weak spot on turret,hull and etc. I was just trying to give you more knowledge about tank if u don't know about the that weakspot?.DID I said the TANK IS WEAK in my post?


Edited by hasnainrakha57, 16 December 2019 - 09:59 PM.


hoveruss #18 Posted 16 December 2019 - 10:08 PM

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I keep getting my arse handed to me by the damned things.  Now people are learnign to play them, they're lethal.

 



pihip #19 Posted 16 December 2019 - 10:17 PM

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View Posthasnainrakha57, on 16 December 2019 - 09:58 PM, said:

Did I ever mentioned in my post that the tank has weak armor?. You are saying in your post that tank has less weak spot on turret,hull and etc. I was just trying to give you more knowledge about tank if u don't know about the that weakspot?.DID I said the TANK IS WEAK in my post?


Your previous post seemed to imply Object 703 is no threat, then you added you were a tier above (so in a better tank) and that you shot this supposed weakspot with gold ammo. A weakspot that needs gold to get penned is no weakspot at all when you think about it.



hasnainrakha57 #20 Posted 16 December 2019 - 10:26 PM

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View Postpihip, on 16 December 2019 - 09:17 PM, said:


Your previous post seemed to imply Object 703 is no threat, then you added you were a tier above (so in a better tank) and that you shot this supposed weakspot with gold ammo. A weakspot that needs gold to get penned is no weakspot at all when you think about it.

If u don't want to spam gold ammo then farewell on improving your game. Wot is basically fire gold ammo if u can't pen with ap use gold or else wait for your death coz other play might not show any Mercy for you. That unicum I mentioned was firing heat at me so I don't wanted to end up like potatoe in battlefield and  saying ohno I  can't pen him and feed him. once I just wanted to give u knowledge about that tank because from your post it seems obj is giving u hard times ;)






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