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Good WN8, under-average WR?

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Ratriq #1 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:34 AM

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So, I've discovered that I seem to be quite a good player when playing my KV-2, already on my way to 2 mark it and I've never marked a tank before. But I've discovered this weird thing.fab5539e065c5edc40ffa47dc76d3f8e.png
While it seems like I've got a good overall WN8, I've got an under-average WR. How come? am I just good at helping the team when it's too late or is the WR outdated considering my recent WR in it is a lot better?

Edited by RetroCh1cken, 18 December 2019 - 10:45 AM.


TungstenHitman #2 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:36 AM

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That's good WN8? :hiding:

Ratriq #3 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:42 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 18 December 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

That's good WN8? :hiding:

Well, the website says so, lime green is considered above-average and dark green "good". My recent WN8 in my KV-2 R have been in the 2000s though.



Echotun #4 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:47 AM

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My initial reaction is that this looks well within normal standards. Keep in mind that wn8 gives the same credit to «useless damage» (damage caused after game is lost) as it does for useful damage. 
Win rate does not. 

Ratriq #5 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

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View PostEchotun, on 18 December 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

My initial reaction is that this looks well within normal standards. Keep in mind that wn8 gives the same credit to «useless damage» (damage caused after game is lost) as it does for useful damage. 
Win rate does not. 

So, this is not a "good" WN8? Seems a bit weird why the website would say so though where it ranks WN8/WR like this:
2ca5a0507e8e29f34d66b01ba5a9a9f3.png



TungstenHitman #6 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 18 December 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

Well, the website says so, lime green is considered above-average and dark green "good". My recent WN8 in my KV-2 R have been in the 2000s though.

 

I know, and I wasn't trying to be a smartass. For me, you would need about 3k wn8, several times your tanks hp in dmg per battle and maybe a couple of kills per battle to really say its enough to be a telling factor to swing battles from losses into wins. Looking at your screenshot, is your damage about the same as your tanks hp? And 1 kill per battle, this is sort of a "like for like" sort of figure. I'm not saying you die every battle but equally it's just not impacting on enough levels to make a big difference to the outcome of a battle result. That said, it really doesn't take a whole lot to improve things, just focus bagging 1 more shot average per battle, just one good shot per battle with that tank would probably be enough to fall the right side of that 1 in 10 battles and have 5 wins from 10 or 6 wins from 10 instead of 4 wins from 10, that's all it is really. 



HassenderZerhacker #7 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 18 December 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

Well, the website says so, lime green is considered above-average and dark green "good". My recent WN8 in my KV-2 R have been in the 2000s though.

 

your WN8 is average, and the average winrate is around 49%.

 

KV-2 has average WR of 50.72 and 1127 WN8

you are 4 wins away from average winrate.

a good MM streak and you get over 50%... I don't think 2-3% difference in winrate are significant


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 18 December 2019 - 11:04 AM.


TungstenHitman #8 Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:57 AM

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If I'm not personally averaging about 3k or more wn8 per session I can't hold a 60% win rate. 

Signal11th #9 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:01 AM

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WN8 doesn't equate to a good WR as WN8 is just a marker for how much damage you get in a game regardless of how you get the damage, I mean if you redline snipe at the end but it's you versus 4 tanks , sure you will farm damage but odds are you're not going to win. 

As Tungsten said in that tank you are going to be needing at least twice as much damage to start dictating how the game is going to go and even then it's all reliant on when you are getting the damage.



divsmo #10 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:03 AM

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Kv2 is an extremely good tank in its tier, to hit 2MOE i would imagine you would need to up the WN8 considerably which would probably pull your WR up with it.

NUKLEAR_SLUG #11 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:05 AM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 18 December 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

So, I've discovered that I seem to be quite a good player when playing my KV-2, already on my way to 2 mark it and I've never marked a tank before. But I've discovered this weird thing.fab5539e065c5edc40ffa47dc76d3f8e.png
While it seems like I've got a good overall WN8, I've got an under-average WR. How come? am I just good at helping the team when it's too late or is the WR outdated considering my recent WR in it is a lot better?

 

WR is never outdated, winning is the point of the game. You can single handedly kill 14 tanks every battle and have the WN8 of the gods but if you let the 15th cap you still lose.

 

You may be right you're just doing damage at the wrong time. Are you putting a lot of early damage in and then dying so you are not around to influence the battle later? Are you sat at the back sniping all game and doing a lot of useless damage when the game is already lost? 



Ratriq #12 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 18 December 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

 

I know, and I wasn't trying to be a smartass. For me, you would need about 3k wn8, several times your tanks hp in dmg per battle and maybe a couple of kills per battle to really say its enough to be a telling factor to swing battles from losses into wins. Looking at your screenshot, is your damage about the same as your tanks hp? And 1 kill per battle, this is sort of a "like for like" sort of figure. I'm not saying you die every battle but equally it's just not impacting on enough levels to make a big difference to the outcome of a battle result. That said, it really doesn't take a whole lot to improve things, just focus bagging 1 more shot average per battle, just one good shot per battle with that tank would probably be enough to fall the right side of that 1 in 10 battles and have 5 wins from 10 or 6 wins from 10 instead of 4 wins from 10, that's all it is really. 

Overall I seem to do on average a bit more than my tanks hp and recently I've done almost a KV-2 and a half hp to dmg wise. Still wouldnät think I'd have an overall WR with 48, considering I at least "carry my own weight".

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 18 December 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

 

WR is never outdated, winning is the point of the game. You can single handedly kill 14 tanks every battle and have the WN8 of the gods but if you let the 15th cap you still lose.

 

You may be right you're just doing damage at the wrong time. Are you putting a lot of early damage in and then dying so you are not around to influence the battle later? Are you sat at the back sniping all game and doing a lot of useless damage when the game is already lost? 

From what I recall I fight all the time at close range near the enemy but I do play passive and often let the enemy make mistakes like pushing or popping out in the wrong time and most of the time I never push until necessary. Which might mean I have to play more aggressive, luckily it seems like my recent WR is 53% which is still something.

 



kaneloon #13 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:16 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 18 December 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

KV-2 has average WR of 50.72 and 1127 WN8

 

That's pretty low for a supposedly "OP" tank.

I can hardly imagine what it will be after the HE nerf ...



Ratriq #14 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:25 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 18 December 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

That's pretty low for a supposedly "OP" tank.

I can hardly imagine what it will be after the HE nerf ...

Well probably cause most people just get salty about attacking a KV-2 head-on as a paper tank or shows it their sides/rear and then get salty that it managed to do as much dmg as it did to them. :hiding:
Can't possibly be their fault for how they played, must be the enemy tank.


Edited by RetroCh1cken, 18 December 2019 - 11:26 AM.


CmdRatScabies #15 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:31 AM

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I see you have frags and damage in the tank - only conclusion is that you must be shooting the red tanks.  Pull it together man or you'll never get below 40%.

TungstenHitman #16 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:33 AM

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I should have clarified a little more in case there's that "wn8 is flawed" argument and it is flawed. The reason I made reference to WN8 in this instance is the fact that WN8 is a damage dealing measuring stick... and the KV2 is a damage dealing purist, dealing damage is all it does and can do, it can't be played any other way so in this instance, the WN8 is very much relevant. 

 

So I feel an average WN8 of sub 1400 for a damage dealing tank just isn't going to swing that extra 1 or 2 wins for every 10 battles played, that's all I'm saying. Doing roughly your own hp per battle is just cancelling out yourself unless you take zero damage and don't die. Otherwise, it's neither this way or that way and as a result, the outcome of the battle is at the mercy of your teammates more than it could or should be if you cracked one or two more tanks with that big ol boom stick per battle. 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 18 December 2019 - 11:34 AM.


Ratriq #17 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:43 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 18 December 2019 - 10:33 AM, said:

I should have clarified a little more in case there's that "wn8 is flawed" argument and it is flawed. The reason I made reference to WN8 in this instance is the fact that WN8 is a damage dealing measuring stick... and the KV2 is a damage dealing purist, dealing damage is all it does and can do, it can't be played any other way so in this instance, the WN8 is very much relevant. 

 

So I feel an average WN8 of sub 1400 for a damage dealing tank just isn't going to swing that extra 1 or 2 wins for every 10 battles played, that's all I'm saying. Doing roughly your own hp per battle is just cancelling out yourself unless you take zero damage and don't die. Otherwise, it's neither this way or that way and as a result, the outcome of the battle is at the mercy of your teammates more than it could or should be if you cracked one or two more tanks with that big ol boom stick per battle. 

I suppose, but the MM still works like 1 heavy tank vs another heavy tank, not one derp tank vs another derp, etc. So by not on average doing less than my total hp it feels like it should still have done something to help the battle if I perform just as good as if not better than the enemy tank that I've ranked against. But it still seems like my WR is 48% which should mean I'm in some battles the reason for a loss.

10:45 Added after 1 minute

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 18 December 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

I see you have frags and damage in the tank - only conclusion is that you must be shooting the red tanks.  Pull it together man or you'll never get below 40%.

Not really sure what you mean frags, below 40% and such, care to explain?



Maschinenkanone #18 Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:56 AM

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Thats the bane with wn8. Many players dont understand what it means in reality. Yes, good players usually have a high wn8, but also a high winrate . A high wn8 however does not necessarily make you a good player. 

 

Someone mentioned the differentiation between "good" and "bad" damage which is indeed a good point. Another one is this: imagine a scout who does only minor damage but his clever scouting leads the team victory. His Wn8 would rather bad. Does this mean hes a bad player? No. In the first example "good damage" lead to victory. In the second it's good scouting, yet no damage at all. 

 

 

 

 



Ratriq #19 Posted 18 December 2019 - 12:05 PM

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View PostMaschinenkanone, on 18 December 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

Thats the bane with wn8. Many players dont understand what it means in reality. Yes, good players usually have a high wn8, but also a high winrate . A high wn8 however does not necessarily make you a good player. 

 

Someone mentioned the differentiation between "good" and "bad" damage which is indeed a good point. Another one is this: imagine a scout who does only minor damage but his clever scouting leads the team victory. His Wn8 would rather bad. Does this mean hes a bad player? No. In the first example "good damage" lead to victory. In the second it's good scouting, yet no damage at all. 

Ah, alright that would explain it a bit.

View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 18 December 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

your WN8 is average, and the average winrate is around 49%.
 

KV-2 has average WR of 50.72 and 1127 WN8

No disrespect but if the average WN8 is 1127, doesn't that mean my overall KV-2 R WN8 of 1379 is above-average/good?



CmdRatScabies #20 Posted 18 December 2019 - 12:07 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 18 December 2019 - 11:43 AM, said:

Not really sure what you mean frags, below 40% and such, care to explain?

Stay true to the clan motto "Semper deorsum tendente."







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