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armored cars are overpowered - part 2

balancing armored cars

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RalfHildebrandt78 #1 Posted 24 December 2019 - 09:21 AM

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Hello!

 

In the topic <http://forum.worldof...e-overpowered/> I have written an analysis why armored cars are overpowered and have tried to give suggestions to rebalance them. Unfortunately Wargaming has locked the topic after 16 replies. Moderators of Wargaming: It is a shame that you kill a discussion about a technical improvement and not trying to guide such a discussion into a constructive direction!

 

The  majority of 16 replies that came to this topic were about drawing my analysis into miscredit by pointing out minor wrong facts (e.g.: not the highest shell velocity in the game - but almost the highest shell velocity) or pulling it to the fact, that I haven't played armored cars for my own. But nitpicking and pulling me into a status that my analysis is not trustworthy does not help at all. It just does not matter if I did not play armored cars! It does matter that many players struggle so hard to fight armored cars! Armored cars run like crazy through enemy lines. 25 seconds after battle start, where slow tanks like SPGs or havies have barely turned into the direction they want to go to, some armored car makes a first spot, enabling early damage and slowing down the approach of the whole enemy battlegroup into their positions. Later in the game, where there is a more positional-based fight some armored car runs through the lines and all of the tanks rotate their turrets to hit this runner and as a result the enemy tanks can make an easy attack.

 

One of the reply states that top-tier scout tanks are not performing well. The question is: what is the measurement of the performance? Overall damage? Or Scouting efficiency? Light tanks have such insane DPM values that they are a severe threat - if used properly. But in my opinion scout tanks should never perform well in terms of overall damage! Scouting is their task. My opinion is that even a tier 6 VK 2801 is a well-performing scout and it would be so even in tier 10 battles, as it was some yeas ago and even at the time when the WT auf E100 was in the game. It is just all about skill and the majority of scout tank drivers either want to do the 5000 assistance points bush-spotting in Prokhorovka or the crazy run through enemy lines. Both are extreme examples of scouting and not the way scouting should be done. Scouts are not intended to light up each and every enemy vehicle at every time! Scouts should add their part to the game and should not dominate it!

 

But I started this threat with the intention to motivate a /constructive/ discussion about how to balance armored cars. So my understanding is, that the majority of players feel that armored cars are overpowered. What can we do to balance this again?

I made some suggestions in my other posting, but now it is up to you to discuss these suggestions or better bring in you own suggestions.

 

Ralf



UrQuan #2 Posted 24 December 2019 - 09:37 AM

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I drive slow armored tanks & while the wheelies are annoying to fight, I also began appreciating them because they are great in rooting out those camping TD nests & bring some risk to artillery gameplay.

 

Also you really need to look up better, because you keep destroying your own arguments. Tracked LT's don't got that high of a DPM value (outside Sheridan it seems ut that one has other problems) Most tracked LT's are really underpowered & can even use some buffs mainly to their DPM imo. Why? Because most maps are not suited for (tracked) LT scouting (Minsk, Himmelsdorf, Glacier, Ruinberg, Siegfried Line, etc) & a med can scout as well as an LT can on those maps.

Why shouldn't LT's be able to fight? They already got low HP & low armor. If a light carries, your team has failed imo.

 

If you want scouting to be like the old days, then the maps have to accommodate for that. Currently they do not. And the fun thing is, the old maps allow for that easy 5K spotting more then the new. I'm terrible at light tank play, but when I get Prohorovka/Malinovka in the rare case i play lights? Those are the maps I get great spotting despite my lack of skill. I cannot do that on the newer maps, but skilled LT players can still rack up some serious spotting there even tho they have to take great risks, especially when wheelies are around.

So in a way, WG already listened to you & made maps that make it much harder to collect that 5K spotting without skill.



arthurwellsley #3 Posted 24 December 2019 - 09:39 AM

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Dear OP

I went to your account and looked up the tanks that you have played. In particular I went to the french light tanks and WV.

Your highest tier french light is the tier IX AMX 13 90 (your other high tier light is the tier IX Spahpanzer). So no tier X lights on your account whatsoever.

You have played a mere 74 battles with the AMX ELC bis with frankly horrible results. I would therefore assume you sold it when you moved up to the tier VI AMX 12t.

But the fact is you have no Wheeled Vehicles on your account.

In my view any one who expresses a deeply held view on a class of vehicle in this game that they have not themselves played through is not talking from a position of strength or knowledge.

 

In comparison to you I have been playing through the WV line;

 

Panhard AMD 178B - played 46 battles, then sold it. 47,83% win rate and WN8 of 1911,60. -Difficult to effect the outcome of matches. I was not impressed with it enought to keep it.

Hotchkiss EBR - played 46 battles, then sold it. 56,52% win rate and WN8 of 1629,86. - Really awkward to play with the rear mounted turret.

Lynx 6x6 - played 63 battles. Still playing this as I have not yet researched the tier IX and all the radios for the tier IX. Win rate = 44,44% with WN8 of 1382,60. I am doing badly with it and not really enjoying it. In no way would I describe it as OP. I own an LT-432 premium USSR tier VIII light tank. In comparison with that I have a 71,43% win rate and WN8 of 2222,39.

 

Once I own the tier X wheeled vehicle and have played it a while I might venture an opinion on it. I already have AMX 13 105 and T-100LT so at least my comparison of the tier X WV will be compared to my experience of the tier X lights, unlike you OP.

 

TD:LR OP does not own any WV and has insufficient experience of them to comment.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 24 December 2019 - 09:40 AM.


antwerp_fighter #4 Posted 24 December 2019 - 09:56 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 24 December 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

Dear OP

I went to your account and looked up the tanks that you have played. In particular I went to the french light tanks and WV.

Your highest tier french light is the tier IX AMX 13 90 (your other high tier light is the tier IX Spahpanzer). So no tier X lights on your account whatsoever.

You have played a mere 74 battles with the AMX ELC bis with frankly horrible results. I would therefore assume you sold it when you moved up to the tier VI AMX 12t.

But the fact is you have no Wheeled Vehicles on your account.

In my view any one who expresses a deeply held view on a class of vehicle in this game that they have not themselves played through is not talking from a position of strength or knowledge.

 

In comparison to you I have been playing through the WV line;

 

Panhard AMD 178B - played 46 battles, then sold it. 47,83% win rate and WN8 of 1911,60. -Difficult to effect the outcome of matches. I was not impressed with it enought to keep it.

Hotchkiss EBR - played 46 battles, then sold it. 56,52% win rate and WN8 of 1629,86. - Really awkward to play with the rear mounted turret.

Lynx 6x6 - played 63 battles. Still playing this as I have not yet researched the tier IX and all the radios for the tier IX. Win rate = 44,44% with WN8 of 1382,60. I am doing badly with it and not really enjoying it. In no way would I describe it as OP. I own an LT-432 premium USSR tier VIII light tank. In comparison with that I have a 71,43% win rate and WN8 of 2222,39.

 

Once I own the tier X wheeled vehicle and have played it a while I might venture an opinion on it. I already have AMX 13 105 and T-100LT so at least my comparison of the tier X WV will be compared to my experience of the tier X lights, unlike you OP.

 

TD:LR OP does not own any WV and has insufficient experience of them to comment.

 

I happened to have all lights except Gernman one (but I am not a good light player), IMO, French WV is balanced until tier 9, that EBR 105 is a little bit too strong.



RalfHildebrandt78 #5 Posted 24 December 2019 - 09:57 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 24 December 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

I went to your account and looked up the tanks that you have played. In particular I went to the french light tanks and WV.

 

 

... and you do it again: You drawing my analysis into miscredit with an exact copy of your posting into the other thread by pointing out that I haven't played armored cars and therefore say that "I am too stupid to discuss about it".

 

Male people discuss medical topics about pregnancy and healthy people discuss how to build better wheel-chairs for disabled people. So it is just not the point that I did not drive armored cars! It is the point, that I face armored cars in battles and have to counter them. And it is not just me. There are so many players out there, that have severe problems even hitting an armored car - even with an E50M, Obj 140 and other tanks with laser-like cannons.

 

Armored cars are able to light up the entire enemy team. This has a severe impact to the battle and this dominates the outcome of the battle. No single tank should dominate the outcome of the battle!

And don't tell me that there are other tanks, that may dominate battles too! We don't need even bigger nuclear bombs because we already have nuclear bombs!

 

I am asking you and all the others that claim, that armored cars are not over-powered: Are you able to hit these vehicles with a high probability? Are you able to handle beeing spotted constantly without any real problem? Are you able to ignore the crazy runner in you back lines without losing your TDs and SPGs?

 

Ralf



arthurwellsley #6 Posted 24 December 2019 - 10:04 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

 

 

... and you do it again: You drawing my analysis into miscredit with an exact copy of your posting into the other thread by pointing out that I haven't played armored cars and therefore say that "I am too stupid to discuss about it".

 

Male people discuss medical topics about pregnancy and healthy people discuss how to build better wheel-chairs for disabled people. So it is just not the point that I did not drive armored cars! It is the point, that I face armored cars in battles and have to counter them. And it is not just me. There are so many players out there, that have severe problems even hitting an armored car - even with an E50M, Obj 140 and other tanks with laser-like cannons.

 

Armored cars are able to light up the entire enemy team. This has a severe impact to the battle and this dominates the outcome of the battle. No single tank should dominate the outcome of the battle!

And don't tell me that there are other tanks, that may dominate battles too! We don't need even bigger nuclear bombs because we already have nuclear bombs!

 

I am asking you and all the others that claim, that armored cars are not over-powered: Are you able to hit these vehicles with a high probability? Are you able to handle beeing spotted constantly without any real problem? Are you able to ignore the crazy runner in you back lines without losing your TDs and SPGs?

 

Ralf

 

Dear Ralf

I at no point called you too stupid to discuss it. Nor did I draw a real life comparison to a game.

This is a game.

It is therefore possible for you to play WV.

I am merely pointing out to you if you had done so (a) your view of them is likely to be very different from that which it is presently, and (b) you speak from a weak position due to lack of experience, and thus (c.) your views are likely to gain very little traction in the community given the shallowness of your experience. In particular you have no tier X lights and a mere two tier IX lights.

Up to tier VIII wheeled vehicles are distinctly under powered and relatively easy to deal with as a consequence. The tier VIII premium is perhaps better than the tech tree WV in this respect.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 24 December 2019 - 10:04 AM.


BR33K1_PAWAH #7 Posted 24 December 2019 - 10:18 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 11:21 AM, said:

One of the reply states that top-tier scout tanks are not performing well. The question is: what is the measurement of the performance? Overall damage? Or Scouting efficiency? Light tanks have such insane DPM values that they are a severe threat - if used properly. But in my opinion scout tanks should never perform well in terms of overall damage! Scouting is their task. My opinion is that even a tier 6 VK 2801 is a well-performing scout and it would be so even in tier 10 battles, as it was some yeas ago and even at the time when the WT auf E100 was in the game. It is just all about skill and the majority of scout tank drivers either want to do the 5000 assistance points bush-spotting in Prokhorovka or the crazy run through enemy lines. Both are extreme examples of scouting and not the way scouting should be done. Scouts are not intended to light up each and every enemy vehicle at every time! Scouts should add their part to the game and should not dominate it!

 

Well, not "one comment", quite a few posters pinted that out for you.

And what is the measurement? Tank curves are:

 



jabster #8 Posted 24 December 2019 - 10:21 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

 

 

... and you do it again: You drawing my analysis into miscredit with an exact copy of your posting into the other thread by pointing out that I haven't played armored cars and therefore say that "I am too stupid to discuss about it".

 

Male people discuss medical topics about pregnancy and healthy people discuss how to build better wheel-chairs for disabled people. So it is just not the point that I did not drive armored cars! It is the point, that I face armored cars in battles and have to counter them. And it is not just me. There are so many players out there, that have severe problems even hitting an armored car - even with an E50M, Obj 140 and other tanks with laser-like cannons.

 

Armored cars are able to light up the entire enemy team. This has a severe impact to the battle and this dominates the outcome of the battle. No single tank should dominate the outcome of the battle!

And don't tell me that there are other tanks, that may dominate battles too! We don't need even bigger nuclear bombs because we already have nuclear bombs!

 

I am asking you and all the others that claim, that armored cars are not over-powered: Are you able to hit these vehicles with a high probability? Are you able to handle beeing spotted constantly without any real problem? Are you able to ignore the crazy runner in you back lines without losing your TDs and SPGs?

 

Ralf


They didn’t call you stupid, they merely said that your lack of playing wheeled vehicles means your view of their strengths/weaknesses maybe biased due to your perception of what can be achieved coming from only playing against them.



NekoPuffer_PPP #9 Posted 24 December 2019 - 10:57 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:

Hello!

 

In the topic <http://forum.worldof...e-overpowered/> I have written an analysis why armored cars are overpowered and have tried to give suggestions to rebalance them. Unfortunately Wargaming has locked the topic after 16 replies. Moderators of Wargaming: It is a shame that you kill a discussion about a technical improvement and not trying to guide such a discussion into a constructive direction!

 

The  majority of 16 replies that came to this topic were about drawing my analysis into miscredit by pointing out minor wrong facts (e.g.: not the highest shell velocity in the game - but almost the highest shell velocity) or pulling it to the fact, that I haven't played armored cars for my own. But nitpicking and pulling me into a status that my analysis is not trustworthy does not help at all. It just does not matter if I did not play armored cars! It does matter that many players struggle so hard to fight armored cars! Armored cars run like crazy through enemy lines. 25 seconds after battle start, where slow tanks like SPGs or havies have barely turned into the direction they want to go to, some armored car makes a first spot, enabling early damage and slowing down the approach of the whole enemy battlegroup into their positions. Later in the game, where there is a more positional-based fight some armored car runs through the lines and all of the tanks rotate their turrets to hit this runner and as a result the enemy tanks can make an easy attack.

 

One of the reply states that top-tier scout tanks are not performing well. The question is: what is the measurement of the performance? Overall damage? Or Scouting efficiency? Light tanks have such insane DPM values that they are a severe threat - if used properly. But in my opinion scout tanks should never perform well in terms of overall damage! Scouting is their task. My opinion is that even a tier 6 VK 2801 is a well-performing scout and it would be so even in tier 10 battles, as it was some yeas ago and even at the time when the WT auf E100 was in the game. It is just all about skill and the majority of scout tank drivers either want to do the 5000 assistance points bush-spotting in Prokhorovka or the crazy run through enemy lines. Both are extreme examples of scouting and not the way scouting should be done. Scouts are not intended to light up each and every enemy vehicle at every time! Scouts should add their part to the game and should not dominate it!

 

But I started this threat with the intention to motivate a /constructive/ discussion about how to balance armored cars. So my understanding is, that the majority of players feel that armored cars are overpowered. What can we do to balance this again?

I made some suggestions in my other posting, but now it is up to you to discuss these suggestions or better bring in you own suggestions.

 

Ralf

 

I've put in bold the sentences which just scream "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

 

OP please, play the WV's, and after 100 battles come back and share you experiences. Did you get insane carries all the time? Did you always spot the entire enemy team? Did you always manage to kill arty?

 

The skill cap is higher than for other classes. Consequently, the potential of WV's success in battle increases exponentially with player skill, more than for other classes. High risk, high reward. As it should be. A class that rewards being a good player...is that a sin?

 

I hate you "no fun allowed" kind of people... :angry:



RalfHildebrandt78 #10 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:07 AM

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View Postjabster, on 24 December 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:

They didn’t call you stupid, they merely said that your lack of playing wheeled vehicles means your view of their strengths/weaknesses maybe biased due to your perception of what can be achieved coming from only playing against them.

 

And again: that is NOT my point! I am not talking about if armored cars perform better or worse than tank scouts. I am not talking about winrates of tanks.

 

What I am talking about is: What can enemy tank drivers do to counter crazy-running wheeled scouts in the rear lines of the battlegroup?

 

The strengths of armored cars encourage players to go fully mad and drive like crazy through enemy lines. If they make use of bumpy terrian, they bunny-hop across the battlefield and they are VERY hard to hit. Of course it is pure luck for the driver of the armored car if he gets hit or not and the outcome of this crazy running is either to provide an immensive impact to the battle because of the spotting and distraction or to die soon and leaving his team without a spotter. Because it is so super hard to hit them, the spotting and distraction caused by them has often an immensive impact - even if they die.

 

WoT is not a simulation, but WoT is a tactical game liked by many players, who do not want to get the playstyle of a bunny-hopping rocket-launcher grunt from TeamFortress.

 

Ralf



Cobra6 #11 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:10 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

Hello!

 

In the topic <http://forum.worldof...e-overpowered/> I have written an analysis why armored cars are overpowered and have tried to give suggestions to rebalance them. Unfortunately Wargaming has locked the topic after 16 replies. Moderators of Wargaming: It is a shame that you kill a discussion about a technical improvement and not trying to guide such a discussion into a constructive direction!

 

You said they were overpowered while the statistics show they are actually underpeforming apart from the premium and arguably the T10, so there really isn't a discussion there....

 

It basically comes down to: Git Gud.

 

Cobra 6



BR33K1_PAWAH #12 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:12 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

What I am talking about is: What can enemy tank drivers do to counter crazy-running wheeled scouts in the rear lines of the battlegroup?

 

Shoot them to smithereens! :izmena:

 

Also:

Block Quote

 armored cars are overpowered

Block Quote

  I am not talking about if armored cars perform better or worse than tank scouts. I am not talking about winrates of tanks.

 

kek?

kek

 



jabster #13 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:22 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

 

And again: that is NOT my point! I am not talking about if armored cars perform better or worse than tank scouts. I am not talking about winrates of tanks.

 

What I am talking about is: What can enemy tank drivers do to counter crazy-running wheeled scouts in the rear lines of the battlegroup?

 

The strengths of armored cars encourage players to go fully mad and drive like crazy through enemy lines. If they make use of bumpy terrian, they bunny-hop across the battlefield and they are VERY hard to hit. Of course it is pure luck for the driver of the armored car if he gets hit or not and the outcome of this crazy running is either to provide an immensive impact to the battle because of the spotting and distraction or to die soon and leaving his team without a spotter. Because it is so super hard to hit them, the spotting and distraction caused by them has often an immensive impact - even if they die.

 

WoT is not a simulation, but WoT is a tactical game liked by many players, who do not want to get the playstyle of a bunny-hopping rocket-launcher grunt from TeamFortress.

 

Ralf


That doesn’t address the point I made. Indeed it enforces it.



NekoPuffer_PPP #14 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:23 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

What I am talking about is: What can enemy tank drivers do to counter crazy-running wheeled scouts in the rear lines of the battlegroup?

 

They can shoot them. Load HE and shoot them. Tell arty to shoot them too. Overall pay more attention to the map and their surroundings, and not just ignore everything hoping others deal with them.

 

 

View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

The strengths of armored cars encourage players to go fully mad and drive like crazy through enemy lines.

 

They don't really, if you wanna have a good game in one.

 

View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

If they make use of bumpy terrian, they bunny-hop across the battlefield and they are VERY hard to hit.

 

This right here shows you never played with a WV.

 

Soon as you hit the slightest bump, you'll get thrown off course, possibly into a building or rock. If you hit a larger bump you'll be turned 90° or completely around, which gives the enemy a perfect opportunity to wreck you.

 

Bumpy terrain is a WV's worst enemy. Even smooth hills and jumps, if not driven over perfectly straight, can cause severe hull damage and/or getting shot.

 

View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

Because it is so super hard to hit them, the spotting and distraction caused by them has often an immensive impact - even if they die.

 

It's hard to hit them because people don't pay attention, or use the wrong ammo. I said, use HE.



RalfHildebrandt78 #15 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:24 AM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 24 December 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

 

I've put in bold the sentences which just scream "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

 

Ok, let's discuss this first highlightes sentence: "Light tanks have such insane DPM values that they are a severe threat". Rheimetall Panzerwagen: 2133dpm, Maus/E100 2210dpm, E50M, 2437dpm. Do you really have the opinion, that light tanks / armored cars should have DPM values at the same level as medium or heavy tanks? I do not! They should not have high DPM values, because players then try to get high overall damage instead of scouting for the team! I so often see all kinds of scouts bush-camping an sniping, because they just can do it. But while they do that, the other members of the team do not have a spotter. - And this is the reason, why the winrate of scouts is so low: so many stupid players play scouts like damage dealers and then wonder, why their team loses the battle.

 

Next sentence: "My opinion is that even a tier 6 VK 2801 is a well-performing scout and it would be so even in tier 10 battles". Yes, I have driven a VK 2801 with the 105mm howitzer in tier 10 battles years ago, when this was allowed and it truely performed well there. It was an awesome machine. (I have achieved 3 gun marks at this tank at this time.)

 

Last sentence: "Scouts are not intended to light up each and every enemy vehicle at every time!" With a classic tank scout a good scout driver is able to spot 1 up to 3 enemy tanks at a time and this small amount gives enough information for a team about enemy movement or for the SPG to hit the target. Good communication (marking target areas, giving relaod times, calling for help and to ping the map) helps a lot. In my opinion scouting does not mean to spot ALL enemy tanks AT THE SAME TIME, because this has an immensive and too strong impact to the battle.

 

Ralf



divsmo #16 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:31 AM

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View PostRalfHildebrandt78, on 24 December 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:

 

Next sentence: "My opinion is that even a tier 6 VK 2801 is a well-performing scout and it would be so even in tier 10 battles". Yes, I have driven a VK 2801 with the 105mm howitzer in tier 10 battles years ago, when this was allowed and it truely performed well there. It was an awesome machine. (I have achieved 3 gun marks at this tank at this time.)

What relevance does that have to the game now? VK hasn't had the derp gun since the light tank rework and definitely would not be competitive in tier 10 games now. Hell it's not even up there amongst the best tier 6 lights anymore.



jabster #17 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:34 AM

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View Postdivsmo, on 24 December 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

What relevance does that have to the game now? VK hasn't had the derp gun since the light tank rework and definitely would not be competitive in tier 10 games now. Hell it's not even up there amongst the best tier 6 lights anymore.


It was also the worst of the three dedicated scouts.



RalfHildebrandt78 #18 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:34 AM

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View PostNekoPuffer_PPP, on 24 December 2019 - 10:23 AM, said:

 

They can shoot them. Load HE and shoot them. Tell arty to shoot them too. Overall pay more attention to the map and their surroundings, and not just ignore everything hoping others deal with them.

 

Seriously? An arty firing once half a minute with a shell 1-3 seconds in the air should try to hit crazy running armored cars?

 

Yes, I tried HE and I very often fire HE to counter these armored cars, but as written in the referenced topic: HE deals so little damage to them, because the wheels soak up most of the damage! If you hit the flat front or the back of an armored car, then this is a different story, but a good driver of an armored car drives in a way, that he is zig-zagging and enemeies need to traverse their turrets hard and in this way the side and the wheels only can be hit where the wheels provide so much protection.

 

Ralf



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I play a lot of Light Tanks, mostly German and French one's and as we all know those LT's have almost no armour at all and suffer greatly from HE shells. Even tho WV have great HE pen and they are very accurate while on the move I don't see fighting those machines as a problem.

 

Tier X could use some tweaking, the rest of them lot are just fine. Perhaps I would also look into their accuracy, because even I don't drive WV my self I feel like their hit ratio is quite high if one takes into an account that most of the shots they fire is on the move. How do I know this ? Just take look at the post battle screen and you'll see how many shots was fired and how many of them hit the target.

 

There are two things I would like to know if someone could be bothered to fetch the data from somewhere, I don't know where to find it :

  1. What is the ratio of non-penetrating shots at these machines ? (Small hit box and wheels do eat a lot of shots)
  2. What is the hit ratio of those machines ? (If WV can be accurate as they are, I don't see a reason why LT's could not be accurate as well)

 



BR33K1_PAWAH #20 Posted 24 December 2019 - 11:43 AM

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It's like if words that OP reads here are only passing through his mind and go straight into oblivion, leaving no trace whatsoever :D





Also tagged with balancing armored cars

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