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At the end of the day, armor is still King in WoT


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 29 December 2019 - 09:51 PM

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Say what you will but for me an experienced player with heavy armor that actually knows what they're doing, in this game of mostly small and congested maps, can defeat even the spammiest of gold spammers and always was, still is, overall, the king of this game. For me it really outlines just how many noobs there are in this game that you see whiners ranting on about being shot by premium ammo when my experiences are that the iron clad brutes of this game are pretty hard to defeat even with premium ammo when used my noobs let alone actually good players. 

 

And for those that have the capacity to read.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 30 December 2019 - 12:12 AM.


TungstenHitman #2 Posted 29 December 2019 - 10:02 PM

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Oh btw just to clarify I was referring to top tier heavily armored tanks. I would be of the opinion that all lower tier tanks of about tier8 and less should actually be limited to +-1 tier battles with a tiny few potentially needed an adjustment. Problem with lower tier tanks is their armor and hp advantage goes out the window in a +2 tier MM since their armor vs those tier is probably worse than some meds while on the flip side of that when they're top tier vs -2 tier tanks they're often stupidly invulnerable. 

RaxipIx #3 Posted 29 December 2019 - 10:04 PM

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This will be such a massive buff for armored tanks.Maus ,Type 5 ->t95 e3 and plenty of other are pretty dam hard to deal with even with premium ammo. Not to mention the rusky MT's HT's  Chinese HT's. American non turreted line.

 

I really don't like the changes that were on the  sandbox, i think WG should have looked at individual tanks and balance them accordingly, not a global rework on ammo.T-54 is a good example, 200 pen but 330 Heat? That's a massive increase.



Bulldog_Drummond #4 Posted 29 December 2019 - 10:09 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 29 December 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

Oh btw just to clarify I was referring to top tier heavily armored tanks. I would be of the opinion that all lower tier tanks of about tier8 and less should actually be limited to +-1 tier battles with a tiny few potentially needed an adjustment. Problem with lower tier tanks is their armor and hp advantage goes out the window in a +2 tier MM since their armor vs those tier is probably worse than some meds while on the flip side of that when they're top tier vs -2 tier tanks they're often stupidly invulnerable. 

 

Something to bear in mind is that Tier 2 and 3 only see +1 MM, and Tier 4 Heavies also see only +1

Armour at low tiers is also important, e.g. in lower tier games there are plenty of Pz IC tanks and being able to block their machine guns will ruin their day

At Tier 5, armour also rules the day, or else I wouldn't get 60% wins in KV220 or T1 Heavy.



NipplesTheClown #5 Posted 29 December 2019 - 10:25 PM

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cool story, bro.

24doom24 #6 Posted 29 December 2019 - 10:52 PM

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Well right now armour only works against those that A. Don't know how to fire gold , or B. Don't know how to fire HE.  Even a hull down Chieftain can be whittled down slowly by HE. 

 

If the proposed changes go through then hull down tanks will become absolute monsters. 



Bulldog_Drummond #7 Posted 29 December 2019 - 10:59 PM

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View Post24doom24, on 29 December 2019 - 09:52 PM, said:

Well right now armour only works against those that A. Don't know how to fire gold , or B. Don't know how to fire HE.  Even a hull down Chieftain can be whittled down slowly by HE. 

 

If the proposed changes go through then hull down tanks will become absolute monsters. 

 

The encouraging thing for me is that most of WG's dumb ideas based on dumb high tier player whines only affect high tiers.

While 357 MM was in place I stopped playing anything above Tier V

If they screw up HE I can always amuse myself at lower tiers

Which is less money for WG



Zylon0 #8 Posted 29 December 2019 - 11:04 PM

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Premium ammo has no place in this game.

It is an old relic from a P2W time where this was still somewhat acceptable. (they could get away with it)

 

WG finally realizes this no longer works and will rebalance the premium and HE ammo probably this year.

 

The whole point of armor is to deflect shells.

If simply pressing number 2 defeats the whole point of armor, then why have armor at all?

 

I have the opinion that premium ammo is still P2W and for that reason i do not fire it.



Balc0ra #9 Posted 29 December 2019 - 11:05 PM

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90% of the gold ammo that hit me, would pen me if they aimed well. Or regardless of where they hit me with normal ammo. 

 

And tbh, it's why we are where we are now. Topics did rise on the issue of armor. Then WG made new guns with more pen. Then suddenly armor was useless due to all the gold etc. So they added more armor and buffed the old stuff. So people complained about needing gold ammo due to the armor... It's just a silly circle. And WG seems to focus on one of them at the time, making one worse, vs both to make a balance.

 

Part of the issue is also that most expect their meds and lights to pen +2 HT armor head-on. Thus they complain about armor destroying the game. Sure flanking is not always a luxury you have. But still.



Negativvv #10 Posted 29 December 2019 - 11:09 PM

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Well it is a tank game so armour has to be usable for some vehicles at least? :trollface:

 

I prefer mobility though, speed is life... And speed means I can get out of the dumb situations I often find myself in rather than just dying slowly in a HT :child:



TungstenHitman #11 Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:31 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 29 December 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

90% of the gold ammo that hit me, would pen me if they aimed well they're accuracy allowed them to hit where they were ACTUALLY aiming. Or regardless of where they hit me with normal ammo if they reliably posses the standard pen, don't happen to have a premium shell not meant for you already loaded or when I'm playing non heavily armored tanks separate to this topic

 

And tbh, it's why we are where we are now. Topics did rise on the issue of armor. Then WG made new guns with more pen and then added tanks with more armor to fall back to the same problem while older unchanged tanks became completely obsolete since they both lacked the pen, accuracy and armor. Then suddenly armor was useless due to all the gold etc Then the heavily armored tanks that only had to point their tanks frontally at targets to be totally immune were suddenly punished for exposing their small weak spots and/or drooling thoughtlessly towards the enemy with zero tactics whatsoever thus rightfully get punished SOME of the time rather than NONE of the time . So they added more armor and buffed the old stuff thus returning the old immunity for playing like an a-hole like the good old days of Type5 and Bobject only now with super accurate guns too. So people complained about needing gold ammo due to the armor... It's just a silly circle but sadly the silly part of the circle always wins out because there are more useless " I don't want to learn to play!" players playing so majority rules in favor of an actually challenging game of skill. And WG seems to focus on one of them at the time, making one worse, vs both to make a balance.

 

Part of the issue is also that most expect their meds and lights to pen +2 HT armor head-on. Thus they complain about armor destroying the game. Sure flanking is not always a luxury you have. But still, at least by adding a small area of frontal weakspot at least a -2 tier tank can actually register a little bit of damage for actually aiming and also actually managing to hit the small weak spot and thus register and be rewarded/acknowledged for implementing his weak spot knowledge against a massively HP and firepower superior +2 tier tank he was always unlikely to defeat but at least shows some damage to differentiate himself from what appear to be a zero damage clueless dork that did nothing when in reality he simple couldn't pen a small frontal weak spot and thusly on some small level wasn't given a complete middle finger and just a slight middle finger instead for having to face an unassailable task when handed a team of melt fast. 

 

There I made a few sensible adjustments I'm sure you as an experienced player would totally have put in if they had more time. 



shikaka9 #12 Posted 30 December 2019 - 07:31 AM

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Gold spammers blames armor for destroying the game ... Better Armored tank players blame gold spammers for destroying the game ... seems balanced, but nooo :popcorn:

 



WindSplitter1 #13 Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:22 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 29 December 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

90% of the gold ammo that hit me, would pen me if they aimed well. Or regardless of where they hit me with normal ammo. 

 

And tbh, it's why we are where we are now. Topics did rise on the issue of armor. Then WG made new guns with more pen. Then suddenly armor was useless due to all the gold etc. So they added more armor and buffed the old stuff. So people complained about needing gold ammo due to the armor... It's just a silly circle. And WG seems to focus on one of them at the time, making one worse, vs both to make a balance.

 

Part of the issue is also that most expect their meds and lights to pen +2 HT armor head-on. Thus they complain about armor destroying the game. Sure flanking is not always a luxury you have. But still.

 

HTs can have 1 meter of armour for all I care.

 

Just make maps where flaking is actually possible and not suicidal and LT drivers will stop trying to pen +2 HT head on or MTs spamming gold.



Dex022 #14 Posted 31 December 2019 - 12:26 AM

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View PostZylon0, on 29 December 2019 - 11:04 PM, said:

Premium ammo has no place in this game.

It is an old relic from a P2W time where this was still somewhat acceptable. (they could get away with it)

 

WG finally realizes this no longer works and will rebalance the premium and HE ammo probably this year.

 

The whole point of armor is to deflect shells.

If simply pressing number 2 defeats the whole point of armor, then why have armor at all?

 

I have the opinion that premium ammo is still P2W and for that reason i do not fire it.

I don't have problems with armor BUT if armor is there,then i have problems with miki maus,tunnel bot,corridor maps where i can engage armor only frontally.



Stevies_Team #15 Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:18 AM

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At the end of the day, armor is still King in WoT

 

At the end of the day, Russia is still King in WoT

 

fixed it for ya



Cobra6 #16 Posted 31 December 2019 - 10:05 AM

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Only if it's Russian, otherwise you'll have a very hard time.

 

E-100 will still work, as long as it's one gold-spammer from one single direction.

 

Cobra 6



Sarvuotis #17 Posted 31 December 2019 - 10:19 AM

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View PostDex022, on 30 December 2019 - 11:26 PM, said:

I don't have problems with armor BUT if armor is there,then i have problems with miki maus,tunnel bot,corridor maps where i can engage armor only frontally.


Maps do need rework and improving, but please show me a single map where there is only one way to engage the enemy? or do you want free unrestricted access with no resistance to HT flank? You have to fight through to get to flank them

Gold is a problem but not game-breaker, WG are now on the right path to rebalancing it



Flicka #18 Posted 31 December 2019 - 03:47 PM

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View PostSarvuotis, on 31 December 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:


Maps do need rework and improving, but please show me a single map where there is only one way to engage the enemy? or do you want free unrestricted access with no resistance to HT flank? You have to fight through to get to flank them

Gold is a problem but not game-breaker, WG are now on the right path to rebalancing it


Empires border, there, that is your 1 map.

And WG are not on the right path to anything, from my perspective the imbalance we have now will be even more obvious.

You will just as time goes by have more tanks without weaknesses and more premm ammo fired.

Imagine a scenario where you have to aim at a weakspot to hit it and do your +25% dmg, while your opponent just peeks and poops a premm round in you.

How you win at that situation?



HanZi #19 Posted 06 January 2020 - 04:27 PM

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View Post24doom24, on 29 December 2019 - 10:52 PM, said:

Well right now armour only works against those that A. Don't know how to fire gold , or B. Don't know how to fire HE.  Even a hull down Chieftain can be whittled down slowly by HE. 

 

If the proposed changes go through then hull down tanks will become absolute monsters. 

I dont WANT to fire gold ammo (for dummies) and HE ammo is way to buggy, atleast when im using it. What you dont say here is that MANY players also use Weakspot/hitbox MODs, so for my consern im stop playing high tier slow heavyes, coz they are gunned down fast. Fair play is WGs biggest joke.



tajj7 #20 Posted 06 January 2020 - 04:36 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 29 December 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

 Sure flanking is not always a luxury

 

It's not even a luxury, most of the time its flat out impossible or close to suicide. 

 

The most common flanking (unless we are talking mid to end game with way less tanks so there is actual room on the maps) occurs because one team deploys ineptly, if both teams deploy normally then good luck flanking, you either literally do not have shots because you are physically blocked off from doing it (i.e corridor) OR you get punished for it by people camping in base who have better positions than you do in the middle of the map, because reasons. 

 

When I play no armour mobile tanks on many maps I spend most of my time going through the options I don't have.  Which is why I tend to go for armour and if needed plenty of premium ammo because if makes the most of the one option I do have, which is engage the enemy front on in a corridor. 

 


Edited by tajj7, 06 January 2020 - 04:39 PM.





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