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Game design lesson 6 - money calculations are in the WRONG order + no templates/automisation


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FizzlePopBerryTwist #1 Posted 01 January 2020 - 07:49 AM

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After a battle the game will try to maintain your tank and refill your consumables etc.

Now... it will at first try to do all of this... and only then take into account how much credits you just earned.

 

And this is why it's bad game design. 

It doesn't matter if you just earned half a million for an outstanding game if you lack 1 credit in founds your tank remains a wreck.

 

This case is quite a similar problem:

v8leFnm.jpg

This is the last battle. No other vehicle came into the garage after this fight and yet... despite having the funds it doesn't work.

 

Even more impressive is this: 

QaM1STG.png

I ran a profit, after the attempt of repairs, ammo and all that... and still, the tank is not touched.

 

Apparently the system works like this:

1> it tries to repair the tank. 

2> it checks if you earned enough

3> it checks your bank

 

In this case, it didn't even manage to do step 2 or 3, DESPITE (as seen above!) clearly doing the math and confirming there IS ENOUGH (for 2 repairs!)

I saw a lot of bad math but this takes the cake. (... perhaps its time to call CCP Games. Seriously, they are pretty darn good with numbers...)

 

Please fix your formula:
1> CHECK BANK

2> CHECK RESULT

3> Repair tank

 

This is how you do it right.

 

+++++++++

 

Another problem which ties into this fiasco: There is no way to save 'Ammo/Consumable-Templates' and Menu's do not remember your choices!

 

In my case (as you see above) i got two small kits (repair+heal) and 1 auto fire ex.

I use this pretty often so..... why can't i save this as default?

 

Why do we have to [X] CHECK-  REFILL CONSUMABLES every time!? Why can't the game remember? It does that for ammo and repairs too. Right now it's just tedious for no reason.

And if you misclick/ forget it... => you will NOT get another kit during the round. You will run dry like in 'the old days'. 15 Minutes = 1 consumable per slot.

 

All of these things are quality of life improvements that were never bothered to be improved upon.

Relics from the wot beta. They should be overhauled and made fit for 2020. 

 

HNY. 

May the reworks come sooner than later... 


Edited by FizzlePopBerryTwist, 01 January 2020 - 07:59 AM.


Spurtung #2 Posted 01 January 2020 - 08:04 AM

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Apparently your system works like this:

1> you have low credits

2> you play tier 10

3> you must make some profit or else you get a tank blocked

 

Please fix your formula:

1> farm credits

2> play tier 10 without going into the credit redline

3> happy little potato

 

This is how you do it right.



Homer_J #3 Posted 01 January 2020 - 09:09 AM

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Credits?  Who is short of credits these days?

 

View PostFizzlePopBerryTwist, on 01 January 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

 

And this is why it's bad game design.

After all your many posts on what you consider to be bad game design I am looking forward to the release of the game you have been working on.



malachi6 #4 Posted 01 January 2020 - 09:15 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 01 January 2020 - 09:09 AM, said:

Credits?  Who is short of credits these days?

 

After all your many posts on what you consider to be bad game design I am looking forward to the release of the game you have been working on.

 

This is known as shifting the burden and is not relevant to the admittedly faulty opening argument.



wremise #5 Posted 01 January 2020 - 10:11 AM

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He doesnt have any consumables in the depot.... no wonder he is short on credits, then you will buy them after any battle too, then they arent discounted...

(He doesnt even use the easiest way to get ~4k credits every match!)



Negativvv #6 Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:14 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 01 January 2020 - 09:09 AM, said:

Credits?  Who is short of credits these days?

 

After all your many posts on what you consider to be bad game design I am looking forward to the release of the game you have been working on.

I'm always short on credits... Although right now I've got 12 million and counting in case of a Black Market event. Trying to stockpile consumables means I'm always poor.



Wintermute_1 #7 Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:27 AM

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View PostNegativvv, on 01 January 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

Trying to stockpile consumables means I'm always poor.

 

It shouldn't really, they only sell them at the optimal price a couple of times per year.



Bora_BOOM #8 Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:46 AM

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I used to have around 600-700 small consumables per type in the depot which would be enough until next discount. Since WG changed the usual 50% discount to half of that, and I feel like that the discounts are not offered as often as they used to be, I gather around 1.5k per type now. We just had a 50% discount on them (dunno if it is still on) so the amount of credits you can save is huge. 

Edited by Bora_BOOM, 01 January 2020 - 11:47 AM.


BrinklyWollox #9 Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:59 AM

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I'm also short of credits. Got up to 5m yesterday, then I needed to buy some equipment for the unexpected heavies that dropped from my loot boxes and came down to 1.5m. I need a day or two of running boosters and only playing prem tanks to increase my balance before the Christmas credit bonus expires.

wsatnutter #10 Posted 01 January 2020 - 12:16 PM

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I have 2000 of each  consumable 100 million credits and if I have that then why cant you the above is good advice

Negativvv #11 Posted 01 January 2020 - 12:27 PM

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View PostWintermute_1, on 01 January 2020 - 11:27 AM, said:

 

It shouldn't really, they only sell them at the optimal price a couple of times per year.

Firing gold and buying tech tree tanks drain the bank account too... The last time I 3 marked something probably cost me millions of credits for that final push :hiding:

Still my grinds are essentially done now and I plan to stockpile credits. Trying to save up 50mil+ as a nice reserve.



Wintermute_1 #12 Posted 01 January 2020 - 12:53 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 01 January 2020 - 12:27 PM, said:

Firing gold and buying tech tree tanks drain the bank account too... The last time I 3 marked something probably cost me millions of credits for that final push :hiding:

Still my grinds are essentially done now and I plan to stockpile credits. Trying to save up 50mil+ as a nice reserve.

 

I don't know why but I always like to keep credits over 30m and free XP over 200k (probably some OCDlike disorder there) but when they have the 50% off consumables I bite the bullet and spend 20 or 30m just to set myself up with a years supply, when you play alot of games I think it's more than worthwhile doing. Having said that, I probably don't go through the tech trees as fast as some players like to and although I don't pay for premium I do play the Lowe alot so credits do tend to come in quickly.

In an emergency blackmarket situation I have stockpiles of gold medkits, fire extinguishers and repair kits (none of which I've bought or use) which I could sell off for 100m or so.

I only ever put effort into 3 marking the Jackson and the gold ammo did take a toll as I remember.

 

Edit: If you can live without the Gold consumables I think it pretty much sorts out and credit problems outside tiers 9 & 10.


Edited by Wintermute_1, 01 January 2020 - 12:56 PM.


unhappy_bunny #13 Posted 01 January 2020 - 12:57 PM

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View PostFizzlePopBerryTwist, on 01 January 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

After a battle the game will try to maintain your tank and refill your consumables etc.

Now... it will at first try to do all of this... and only then take into account how much credits you just earned.

 

And this is why it's bad game design. 

It doesn't matter if you just earned half a million for an outstanding game if you lack 1 credit in founds your tank remains a wreck.

 

This case is quite a similar problem:

v8leFnm.jpg

This is the last battle. No other vehicle came into the garage after this fight and yet... despite having the funds it doesn't work.

 

Even more impressive is this: 

QaM1STG.png

I ran a profit, after the attempt of repairs, ammo and all that... and still, the tank is not touched.

 

Apparently the system works like this:

1> it tries to repair the tank. 

2> it checks if you earned enough

3> it checks your bank

 

In this case, it didn't even manage to do step 2 or 3, DESPITE (as seen above!) clearly doing the math and confirming there IS ENOUGH (for 2 repairs!)

I saw a lot of bad math but this takes the cake. (... perhaps its time to call CCP Games. Seriously, they are pretty darn good with numbers...)

 

Please fix your formula:
1> CHECK BANK

2> CHECK RESULT

3> Repair tank

 

This is how you do it right.

 

+++++++++

 

Another problem which ties into this fiasco: There is no way to save 'Ammo/Consumable-Templates' and Menu's do not remember your choices!

 

In my case (as you see above) i got two small kits (repair+heal) and 1 auto fire ex.

I use this pretty often so..... why can't i save this as default?

 

Why do we have to [X] CHECK-  REFILL CONSUMABLES every time!? Why can't the game remember? It does that for ammo and repairs too. Right now it's just tedious for no reason.

And if you misclick/ forget it... => you will NOT get another kit during the round. You will run dry like in 'the old days'. 15 Minutes = 1 consumable per slot.

 

All of these things are quality of life improvements that were never bothered to be improved upon.

Relics from the wot beta. They should be overhauled and made fit for 2020. 

 

HNY. 

May the reworks come sooner than later... 

 

Looking at the screenshot I assume it wants you press the accept (annehmen) button to complete the repairs. Is that right?

That would explain why the tank still shows as waiting for repairs. 

Are there any settings elsewhere that would allow you to avoid such actions? 

 

Secondary question, why did you not ask this in the German forum? Wouldn't they be in a better position to answer you?



Cobra6 #14 Posted 01 January 2020 - 01:04 PM

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Didn't you know? Wargaming wants you to buy a premium account or tank if you want to play the best tanks in the game.

If you won't pay, you'll have to suffer lower tier tanks and be bottom tier 3 matches out of 4.

 

If you play lower tiers as bottom tier 3 matches out of 4 however, you'll need premium ammo to viably engage all the over-armored tanks in the game nowadays, so you'll still not make enough money so you'll have to suffer longer.

Also, soon they will be taking away your HE ammo at lower tiers so doing damage for average/bad players will become even harder. Remember, suffering or paying, your choice....

 

Have I made clear yet that Wargaming would like you to buy a premium account or tank? I don't know if their point came across.....

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 01 January 2020 - 01:05 PM.


xJTB #15 Posted 01 January 2020 - 01:09 PM

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This is clearly a bug, not a game design issue.

As you can see from the battle result page, the intention was to take the profit from the battle into account, but somewhere the software failed.



LethalWalou #16 Posted 01 January 2020 - 01:28 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 01 January 2020 - 12:04 PM, said:

Didn't you know? Wargaming wants you to buy a premium account or tank if you want to play the best tanks in the game.

If you won't pay, you'll have to suffer lower tier tanks and be bottom tier 3 matches out of 4.

 

Yeah, that's why they have never ever given free premium tanks in marathons and players have to pay for everything like that... Oh wait.

 

Of course they seek to make money but they are also giving us huge amount of marathons for tier 8 premium tanks, some harder, so easier. On top of that we get credit boosters pretty damn easily. Credit making as a whole is just so much easier than it used to be that you don't even need a premium account to grind them properly, just one of the free tier 8 premiums. If you don't want to pay or grind a marathon, you still get a good part of the game available for you, completely for free. It's only the tier 9 and 10 that cost a lot to play at. They are the end game content after all so it's more than understandable that they want to incentive people to spend money to easily play those tiers. But at the same time you can play tiers 1-8 completely for free... Cobra please, again.



Homer_J #17 Posted 01 January 2020 - 01:40 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 01 January 2020 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm always short on credits... Although right now I've got 12 million and counting in case of a Black Market event. Trying to stockpile consumables means I'm always poor.

 

So you have credits tied up in consumables which you bought half price and can sell at half price.  It's like a 0% interest savings account.



kaneloon #18 Posted 01 January 2020 - 02:00 PM

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 Lesson of this thread : don't try 2nd degree meanings the 1rst of january ;)

As a proof, see if you understand this : 

:



Cobra6 #19 Posted 01 January 2020 - 05:07 PM

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View PostLethalWalou, on 01 January 2020 - 12:28 PM, said:

 

Yeah, that's why they have never ever given free premium tanks in marathons and players have to pay for everything like that... Oh wait.

 

Of course they seek to make money but they are also giving us huge amount of marathons for tier 8 premium tanks, some harder, so easier. On top of that we get credit boosters pretty damn easily. Credit making as a whole is just so much easier than it used to be that you don't even need a premium account to grind them properly, just one of the free tier 8 premiums. If you don't want to pay or grind a marathon, you still get a good part of the game available for you, completely for free. It's only the tier 9 and 10 that cost a lot to play at. They are the end game content after all so it's more than understandable that they want to incentive people to spend money to easily play those tiers. But at the same time you can play tiers 1-8 completely for free... Cobra please, again.

 

The ultimate goal of the game for them is that you want to play the highest tiers, the tiers below that are there to incentivise you to spend money.

I'm not saying we don't get premiums for free although free is not entirely true, time is money after all, and for those "free" tier 8 premiums you will need to invest a *LOT* of your time.

The boosters are a good thing, makes it easier to earn credits indeed but you also need a lot more credits nowadays then you did in 2012 since you'll be firing a lot of premium ammo, especially in the mid-tiers, so that evens itself out pretty much.

 

We get more but we also pay more due to changes in the game.

 

Cobra 6



gunslingerXXX #20 Posted 01 January 2020 - 05:21 PM

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View Postkaneloon, on 01 January 2020 - 02:00 PM, said:

 Lesson of this thread : don't try 2nd degree meanings the 1rst of january ;)

As a proof, see if you understand this : 

:

:D

Took me waaaayyyy to long to understand. Spot on 1st of January issue :trollface:






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