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Cobra6 #21 Posted 02 January 2020 - 08:57 PM

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View PostBrinklyWollox, on 02 January 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

 

Interesting. You've rephrased your argument from one of "WG are deliberately destroying their game" to a more mellow one that closely resembles the points I've been making without conceding that you agree. We're now at a point where we're saying more or less the same thing, except I have a bit more faith in WG having a concrete long term plan.

 

Funny how you're able to support your argument once you abandon the wilder "nobody listens to me!" claims, isn't it.

 

Well they are not listening, that has been the whole problem :)

 

I've never said they are deliberately destroying their game though, my case was that due to short sighted greed they've made very bad decisions for the longevity of WoT which is illustrated by the graph.

It shows that in the years 2010 to 2013 they were doing a great job with this game, attracting tons of new players and then suddenly as they switched from creating a "good game" to "milking every last penny" mode, the playerbase recognised this and left while new players stopped coming in.

 

The first few years the emphasis was on "free" content that was being supported by premium accounts and the occasional new premium tank once every 6 months. Premiums that were competitive but not as good as regular tanks of the same tier, since their main function is training crews and making credits.

Wargaming made tons of money which was evident from when they shortly entered the Cyprus stock exchange but they didn't want to show how much they earned regularly so they were removed from the exchange.

Source:

Spoiler

 

Then more and more decisions started to be made that would directly or indirectly incentivise players to spend money, things I've lined out in earlier posts, which unfortunately sped up the already starting decline. And this bit can still be construed as "deliberately destroying their game" *OR* as gross inexperience. As I don't think that the original core staff of WG that was still calling the shots by then is/was stupid, I'd say the former is the more likely choice.

Then, when World of Warplanes and World of Warships failed to materialise as catalysts for more growth, and every other project that WG attempted crashed and burned, they had a bit of a panic and started actually listening to the player base instead of ignoring them. Nothing else to do since WoT is the main cash cow still and the rest is not shaping up.

 

As you point out, they have recognised their mistakes and this is also visible in the graph as the decline is slowing down, which is good. But they are still not rectifying the fundamental problems that made so many players leave in the first place and they are still spamming premium tanks every single day instead of reigning in the money grubbing.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 02 January 2020 - 09:02 PM.


1ucky #22 Posted 02 January 2020 - 09:02 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 02 January 2020 - 08:57 PM, said:

 

Well they are not listening, that has been the whole problem :)

 

I've never said they are deliberately destroying their game though, my case was that due to short sighted greed they've made very bad decisions for the longevity of WoT which is illustrated by the graph.

It shows that in the years 2010 to 2013 they were doing a great job with this game, attracting tons of new players and then suddenly as they switched from creating a "good game" to "milking every last penny" mode, the playerbase recognised this and left while new players stopped coming in.

 

The first few years the emphasis was on "free" content that was being supported by premium accounts and the occasional new premium tank once every 6 months. Premiums that were competitive but not as good as regular tanks of the same tier, since their main function is training crews and making credits.

 

Then more and more decisions started to be made that would directly or indirectly incentivise players to spend money, things I've lined out in earlier posts, which unfortunately sped up the already starting decline. And this bit can still be construed as "deliberately destroying their game" *OR* as gross inexperience. As I don't think that the original core staff of WG that was still calling the shots by then is/was stupid, I'd say the former is the more likely choice.

Then, when World of Warplanes and World of Warships failed to materialise as catalysts for more growth, and every other project that WG attempted crashed and burned, they had a bit of a panic and started actually listening to the player base instead of ignoring them. Nothing else to do since WoT is the main cash cow still and the rest is not shaping up.

 

As you point out, they have recognised their mistakes and this is also visible in the graph as the decline is slowing down, which is good. But they are still not rectifying the fundamental problems that made so many players leave in the first place and they are still spamming premium tanks every single day instead of reigning in the money grubbing.

 

Cobra 6

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Cobra6 #23 Posted 02 January 2020 - 09:04 PM

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I don't know why you are posting my battle count as I never said I was leaving :D

 

At the moment I just vote with my wallet having cut my spending to a low percentage compared to other years until they get their act together.

 

cobra 6



Negativvv #24 Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:32 PM

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Seriously WoT is nothing like the storm that is WoWS right now.

 

That is a game that is potentially in trouble.

 

WoT still sitting on over 100k players online on EU right now.



Schepel #25 Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:52 PM

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@ Cobra:

 

Despite the fact you made a number of solid observations, your argument does suffer from a correlation fallacy. There are a number of alternative explanations for the decline in user numbers. For example, the game has become steadily more demanding. This means that a huge number of mainly Eastern European players with bad (outdated) hardware and software has had to quit or upgrade. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that for many of them quitting was the only option. This is not necessarily a bad thing for WG: they don't need relatively poor customers as long as a certain critical player mass is retained - which is very much the case. Another explanation is that WG spent a lot of effort on recruiting new players. This always tends to result in short term growth followed by a huge drop.

 

This isn't to say I disagree with you with regards to WG's poor design choices, rather on the contrary, I very much agree with you. I just don't believe correletion necessarily equals cause. You could very well be right, but we can't know for certain one way or another.



Nishi_Kinuyo #26 Posted 02 January 2020 - 11:53 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 02 January 2020 - 11:32 PM, said:

Seriously WoT is nothing like the storm that is WoWS right now.

 

That is a game that is potentially in trouble.

 

WoT still sitting on over 100k players online on EU right now.

Well, WoWS did just do like the worst PR stunt in recent MMO history, afaik.

Puerto Rico...

 

Also, I prefer to watch premium reviews from players who are actually decent at the game and know the game mechanics.

Players like SirFoch, Skill4ltu or DezGamez.



snowlywhite #27 Posted 03 January 2020 - 12:21 AM

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View PostSchepel, on 02 January 2020 - 11:52 PM, said:

@ Cobra:

 

Despite the fact you made a number of solid observations, your argument does suffer from a correlation fallacy. There are a number of alternative explanations for the decline in user numbers. For example, the game has become steadily more demanding. This means that a huge number of mainly Eastern European players with bad (outdated) hardware and software has had to quit or upgrade. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that for many of them quitting was the only option. This is not necessarily a bad thing for WG: they don't need relatively poor customers as long as a certain critical player mass is retained - which is very much the case. Another explanation is that WG spent a lot of effort on recruiting new players. This always tends to result in short term growth followed by a huge drop.

 

This isn't to say I disagree with you with regards to WG's poor design choices, rather on the contrary, I very much agree with you. I just don't believe correletion necessarily equals cause. You could very well be right, but we can't know for certain one way or another.

 

really; a game like this needs a 4-500 eur comp. Majority of the time I'm playing it on a laptop bought in '13. Obviously, not with max graph settings. But who cares about graphics anyway.

 

I seriously doubt there are many EE players with outdated hardware. If anything, ppl around seem to obsess much more about this than in western Europe. I'm the only guy I know that doesn't change his computer and phone every ~2 years. And that's because I'm developing stuff for 20+ years so I can afford not to give a f about the latest fad.

 

but even I had to fork some 2.5k for my wife's last gaming rig...

 

also, graphics update came in '18, trend started to go down in '15; so not much in common.



Verbal_kint_742 #28 Posted 03 January 2020 - 01:02 AM

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Heard that Skodas are broke down easily so i bought a CRF 1000 for new year.


Edited by Verbal_kint_742, 03 January 2020 - 01:02 AM.


Negativvv #29 Posted 03 January 2020 - 01:44 AM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 02 January 2020 - 11:53 PM, said:

Well, WoWS did just do like the worst PR stunt in recent MMO history, afaik.

Puerto Rico...

 

Also, I prefer to watch premium reviews from players who are actually decent at the game and know the game mechanics.

Players like SirFoch, Skill4ltu or DezGamez.

I played WoWS for years and gave up a year ago now with the CV rework.

 

From what friends who still play it are saying, I probably made the right choice.

 

For all the scaremongering here I don't think WoT is in that bad a condition, it seems fine from here. 



1ucky #30 Posted 03 January 2020 - 02:21 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 02 January 2020 - 09:04 PM, said:

I don't know why you are posting my battle count as I never said I was leaving :D

 

At the moment I just vote with my wallet having cut my spending to a low percentage compared to other years until they get their act together.

 

cobra 6

I can respect that. :)

 

Btw, back on topic: Škoda T 27. :P

 

It's a good tank, got me 100% WR.

=^.^=

 



kaneloon #31 Posted 03 January 2020 - 02:37 AM

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This tank is ok, yet it doesn't really shine amongst the other t8 autoloaders. I feel I have more impact on a battle in the only other one I have, the Emil 1 than with this tank.

 

But it gave me the will to get the skoda T-50 with the blue prints, and this t-50 is very nice.


Edited by kaneloon, 03 January 2020 - 02:38 AM.


Gardar7 #32 Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:25 AM

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View PostVerbal_kint_742, on 02 January 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

Heard that Skodas are broke down easily so i bought a CRF 1000 for new year.

 

Motorbike for wintertime? You must live far down there where the sun is shining.



Humansland #33 Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:29 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 02 January 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:

 

Indeed yet Wargaming is failing to do that since 2015 as we learned from the latest interview.

So to see why WoT has quite rapidly began shedding players, it's important to see what changes they made between 2013 and 2015 that apparently, the community didn't like since they began to leave en-masse. Consequent changes since 2016 have done nothing to slow down or stem this exodus.

 

One of those is letting go of the "premiums should be inferior to fully upgraded same tier tanks".

 

And the issue is, the more players this game sheds, the less forgiving the remainder of the players (and those who left but are thinking of coming back) will be of new mistakes. So implementing "free XP sinks" and making the premiums blatantly better (definition of Pay-2-Win) will not help this game in trying to retain player numbers. It will only piss off the players remaining even further.

Thing is, the sudden reverse in the player number was not a natural gradual start of a decline, it was a rather swift reversal. This should tell people who are paying attention that changes that WG made to the WoT were not liked by the player base at large.

 

Cobra 6




It is always a pleasure to read your comments, Cobra. They tend to be insightful and someone who speaks from experience. But I must warn you, if you keep up speaking against WG you will find yourself banned sooner or later. I think the forum does not tolerate 'negative' or 'not PC' (you are not imho) speech pointed at the company.

I wish you best of luck



Cobra6 #34 Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:40 AM

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View PostSchepel, on 02 January 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

@ Cobra:

 

Despite the fact you made a number of solid observations, your argument does suffer from a correlation fallacy. There are a number of alternative explanations for the decline in user numbers. For example, the game has become steadily more demanding. This means that a huge number of mainly Eastern European players with bad (outdated) hardware and software has had to quit or upgrade. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that for many of them quitting was the only option. This is not necessarily a bad thing for WG: they don't need relatively poor customers as long as a certain critical player mass is retained - which is very much the case. Another explanation is that WG spent a lot of effort on recruiting new players. This always tends to result in short term growth followed by a huge drop.

 

This isn't to say I disagree with you with regards to WG's poor design choices, rather on the contrary, I very much agree with you. I just don't believe correletion necessarily equals cause. You could very well be right, but we can't know for certain one way or another.

 

Since I was playing WoT on my 2009 Dell M6300 workstation laptop fine, I sincerely doubt it's because of the increasing demand on the hardware. You can always lower graphics settings.

Also, the drop happened pretty much before HD graphics were introduced.

 

But as you say, we will never know for certain :) I just went with what seemed the most logical explanation looking at all the time-lines of changes and occurrences in this game vs. the player numbers.

 

View PostHumansland, on 03 January 2020 - 07:29 AM, said:




It is always a pleasure to read your comments, Cobra. They tend to be insightful and someone who speaks from experience. But I must warn you, if you keep up speaking against WG you will find yourself banned sooner or later. I think the forum does not tolerate 'negative' or 'not PC' (you are not imho) speech pointed at the company.

I wish you best of luck


Well, apart from a moderator position going past me because of some warning points, I've not really had any issues yet.

The only times I did get banned was when I directly called out dumb players, which you can't do. :D

 

Cobra 6







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