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KV-2 firing AP is a literal monster

KV-2

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Ratriq #1 Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:35 AM

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So, I'm trying to increase my average dmg per game on my KV-2 so I've started to try to learn when to use AP shells on what enemies and oh boy, you thought HE KV-2 was powerful, my god it's even worse with AP.

We are talking about being able to deal 700 average dmg on a tier 7 heavy tank, like the Tiger, if you aim at the flat front hull, also dealing around 700 dmg to almost all kinds of mediums cause of their weaker front armour.
I thought I couldn't be in love with this tank any more than I already am, but I've been proven wrong, my god it's powerful knowing when to fire AP at what enemies.

Edited by Ratriq, 03 January 2020 - 08:50 AM.


LordSkyFury #2 Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:55 AM

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People are crying about KV-2 will be dead with ammo changes, but they do not realize that 152mm AP on tier 6 can over match a lot of tanks.

wsatnutter #3 Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:34 AM

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tis a joyous thing to behold

Ratriq #4 Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:06 AM

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View PostLordSkyFury, on 03 January 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

People are crying about KV-2 will be dead with ammo changes, but they do not realize that 152mm AP on tier 6 can over match a lot of tanks.

It can even overmatch some tier 8s so if one thing this change will force a lot of KV-2 players to use AP more often and it might result in the average KV-2 player becoming even more dangerous and aware of how powerful this shell can actually be, especially in t6 matches. Since a shell with 137 penetration and an average dmg with 700, used right can be terrifying at such low tiers.



VarzA #5 Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:33 AM

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View PostRatriq, on 03 January 2020 - 11:06 AM, said:

It can even overmatch some tier 8s so if one thing this change will force a lot of KV-2 players to use AP more often and it might result in the average KV-2 player becoming even more dangerous and aware of how powerful this shell can actually be, especially in t6 matches. Since a shell with 137 penetration and an average dmg with 700, used right can be terrifying at such low tiers.

 

110/136 pen but yeah, this is why i consider the KV-2 to be an abomination and the KV-2 ® a mistake to be introduced into this game.



Suurpolskija #6 Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:38 AM

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I think I saw some streamer, maybe Circon(?) mark KV-2 with the 107mm saying it's much more reliable. 

 

Anyways. I used my blueprints to skip KV-2 to the arty line because I just loathe derps. 



Ratriq #7 Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:43 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 03 January 2020 - 09:33 AM, said:

110/136 pen but yeah, this is why i consider the KV-2 to be an abomination and the KV-2 ® a mistake to be introduced into this game.

To be honest, even with how powerful this tank can be, I still see it as balanced cause of its downsides.

1. Weak armour, can even get one-shotted by another derp gun.
2. It's generally slow, slow turret, slow aim, slow reloading, other words if more than 2 enemies storm this tank it's going to be over for it, sometimes even one is enough if it got enough HP to take one hit.
3. Really bad camo, this won't be sneaking up on you without you noticing and if, for one, you'll notice it before it notices you.
4. A light tank can easily circle this thing and kill it and avoiding a single hit.
5. It learns players that all tanks are unique and some shouldn't be fought against head-on of you got paper armour and you should flank them instead.

Even then, believe it or not, but this tank does require a certain type of skill to make it work. You have to know what ammo to use when, when to fire without getting overrun, when to take a hit and when not to. Where to shoot an enemy to make the most dmg, etc.

09:49 Added after 5 minute

View PostSuurpolskija, on 03 January 2020 - 09:38 AM, said:

I think I saw some streamer, maybe Circon(?) mark KV-2 with the 107mm saying it's much more reliable. 

 

Anyways. I used my blueprints to skip KV-2 to the arty line because I just loathe derps. 

I've heard a couple of people say this but it's certainly a mixed opinion, I for one think the 152 is better considering you'll otherwise lose out on all the one-shots and 700 dmg shots. Also, you will have to poke a lot more with the 107 cause of the worse alpha and faster reload, considering it got bad armour I actually think it can become riskier using it cause you'll risk getting hit a lot more.

Also, the KV-2 R which can't change into the 107 and only got the 152 actually got a higher average dmg. It's estimated that if you want to 3 mark it, you have to do an average dmg of 2k, compare that to the 1,5k of the KV-2. Obviously this doesn't mean the 152 is better since it can only more hardcore players play the KV-2 R but it's still something to consider.



LordSkyFury #8 Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:56 AM

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View PostRatriq, on 03 January 2020 - 10:06 AM, said:

It can even overmatch some tier 8s so if one thing this change will force a lot of KV-2 players to use AP more often and it might result in the average KV-2 player becoming even more dangerous and aware of how powerful this shell can actually be, especially in t6 matches. Since a shell with 137 penetration and an average dmg with 700, used right can be terrifying at such low tiers.

With ammo rebalance it has even more damage on its standard round. I think it was 910? I am not sure right now.



Shacou #9 Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:11 AM

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I do the same in my O-1. Both KV2 and japanese counterpart are very powerful when you choose the right ammo. My ammo ratios are 50/50 AP/HE. I think it is also a secret to 3marking those vehicles.

VarzA #10 Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:16 AM

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View PostRatriq, on 03 January 2020 - 11:43 AM, said:

To be honest, even with how powerful this tank can be, I still see it as balanced cause of its downsides.

1. Weak armour, can even get one-shotted by another derp gun.

So is the FV4005, and that one can 1 shot a medium of same tier only with a very high roll and with gold ammo.
2. It's generally slow, slow turret, slow aim, slow reloading, other words if more than 2 enemies storm this tank it's going to be over for it, sometimes even one is enough if it got enough HP to take one hit.

Same as FV4005.
3. Really bad camo, this won't be sneaking up on you without you noticing and if, for one, you'll notice it before it notices you.

Same playstyle as FV4005.
4. A light tank can easily circle this thing and kill it and avoiding a single hit.

This game is filled with hard counters, and FV4005 cannot traverse full turret.
5. It learns players that all tanks are unique and some shouldn't be fought against head-on of you got paper armour and you should flank them instead.

Are we playing the same game with the same maps ?

Even then, believe it or not, but this tank does require a certain type of skill to make it work. You have to know what ammo to use when, when to fire without getting overrun, when to take a hit and when not to. Where to shoot an enemy to make the most dmg, etc.

Just fire your 910 HE damage with 86mm of pen and you are ok, for most of the times.

09:49 Added after 5 minute

I've heard a couple of people say this but it's certainly a mixed opinion, I for one think the 152 is better considering you'll otherwise lose out on all the one-shots and 700 dmg shots. Also, you will have to poke a lot more with the 107 cause of the worse alpha and faster reload, considering it got bad armour I actually think it can become riskier using it cause you'll risk getting hit a lot more.

Also, the KV-2 R which can't change into the 107 and only got the 152 actually got a higher average dmg. It's estimated that if you want to 3 mark it, you have to do an average dmg of 2k, compare that to the 1,5k of the KV-2. Obviously this doesn't mean the 152 is better since it can only more hardcore players play the KV-2 R but it's still something to consider.

That's because you have to grind the mods on the regular KV-2.

 

Don't compare KV-2 with regular heavy tanks, compare it with the FV4005.



Ratriq #11 Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:44 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 03 January 2020 - 10:16 AM, said:

Don't compare KV-2 with regular heavy tanks, compare it with the FV4005.

That tank is a completely different story though for many reasons, cause that tank is simply broken.
First of the FV4005 is a tier 10, t10 is where everything more serious and it is supposed to be very competitive, which means there shouldn't be meme tanks like this and it will never meet tanks more powerful than t10 which makes it's deathstar gun oh so much more powerful. It got also got better accuracy and is supposed to be more of a sniper rather than a close-combat tank, which makes it a lot harder to deal with it cause you won't even spot it until it has fired its laser and it's too late and even if you have spotted it, it will be far, far away from you.

The KV-2 is supposed to fight close to its enemies which means when it's reloading you will most of the time be able to attack it, the FV4005 will just go into cover from the other side of the map behind its bushes and you most likely won't be able to shoot back.

Also about flanking, you can either flank it or just go to another spot and don't bother with it. When it's moving out of cover it's accuracy will be horrendous and even if you are right in front of it, point-blank, it got a high chance of missing which means you can start unloading your shells on it. Even if you just are 15 meters away.
Also sure, you can just load HE, but with all the time I've seen people play the KV-2 many still can't get it to work, either they shoot too quickly and get impatient without thinking of the consequences or will play it like a heavy and take try to block a bunch of shots, etc.
 

10:44 Added after 0 minute

View PostLordSkyFury, on 03 January 2020 - 09:56 AM, said:

With ammo rebalance it has even more damage on its standard round. I think it was 910? I am not sure right now.

Wait really? Do we have any news if this will be the same for the KV-2 Rs AP?



Balc0ra #12 Posted 03 January 2020 - 12:05 PM

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AP can be a sure way to do damage, as vs weaker targets you also get ovematch etc.

 

But... it can troll you badly as the AP pen is not high even for a tier 6. And a 25% low roll vs even a Tiger or a sudden angle change even fully aimed. You can do nothing vs something. So it's a gamble to use in a 1 vs 1. But it can reward you well too. I've won a few late game fiights even using non gold AP late game vs Tigers, as a low HE roll would be as bad as bouncing with AP once his DPM gets in your face.



psychobear #13 Posted 03 January 2020 - 12:25 PM

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View PostSuurpolskija, on 03 January 2020 - 11:38 AM, said:

 I used my blueprints to skip KV-2 to the arty line because I just loathe derps. 

 

:amazed::amazed::amazed::facepalm::D:D:D



TungstenHitman #14 Posted 03 January 2020 - 12:49 PM

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I used much the same gun on an SU-152 yesterday but with HE and blind fired two different bushes where tanks were last seen going towards. One shot killed a JP4 for 600 hp and one shot a B-C-12t for 1000 hp. I then face hugged a KV-3. who's remaining hp fell within my HEAT dmg spectrum and... missed from 4 inches away and got killed by the same KV-3. Well, you take the good with the bad with that gun I guess lol.

24doom24 #15 Posted 03 January 2020 - 02:37 PM

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I don't really like firing AP in my KV-2. It either bounces everything or it's absorbed into the tracks. If I know I'm going to overmatch someones armour I'll just fire HE instead. 

CmdRaZorLight #16 Posted 03 January 2020 - 03:34 PM

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View PostRatriq, on 03 January 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:

 

Wait really? Do we have any news if this will be the same for the KV-2 Rs AP?

 

KV-2 R is a premium and therefore shouldn't be touched. Even ammowise..

 

Edit: I mean, it can only be buffed, never gets nerfed as it is premium


Edited by CmdRaZorLight, 03 January 2020 - 03:40 PM.


Ratriq #17 Posted 03 January 2020 - 04:11 PM

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View PostCmdRaZorLight, on 03 January 2020 - 02:34 PM, said:

 

KV-2 R is a premium and therefore shouldn't be touched. Even ammowise..

 

Edit: I mean, it can only be buffed, never gets nerfed as it is premium

Yeah which is why I wonder if it gets the AP buff to as the KV-2 gets.

15:16 Added after 4 minute

View Post24doom24, on 03 January 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

I don't really like firing AP in my KV-2. It either bounces everything or it's absorbed into the tracks. If I know I'm going to overmatch someones armour I'll just fire HE instead. 

Problem is, HEAT can't almost pen anything but the AP can pen a lot of tanks frontally. Trust me, it's really worth trying to learn what tanks you can pen and where you can pen them with AP.  You can always open tanks.gg and look at tanks you commonly meet just to be sure where you can pen them.

Again, to show you how much you can actually pen with AP, you can literally pen a Tiger 1, frontally with AP and deal an average dmg of 700 to it. Much better than that 200-350 dmg.<

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