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EBR, 279. Which is OP and which is not? My truth with photos.


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Greek_Jedi_Knight #1 Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:25 PM

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I wanted to give more answers, in my previous post, but that thread went out of the point of discussion.

This time i wont speak at all, conclussions are only yours, images speak better.

I have said that 279e is NOT overpowered, can be penned easily, and with AP rounds, and none believed me.

I wanted also to show a video, which i still have.

 

I also stated that as we speak EBR is the most Overpowered tank/vehicle of this game, and here is the truth.

 

Please have a look at these images. I was with my FOCH 155 in this battle.

 

What we see here?

 

We see an 279 which barely reflect 4 or 5 shots, died easily i would say-based on the block damage-but on the other side, who have an EBR  T10, which spotted the entire team, made spot assistance damage 4,5k, while also scored 4,5 and was the TOP caliber of the battle with the highest damage.

 

Watch now this:

Not only this EBR, spotted, entire enemy team, but also was able to stay alive , scored 4500 damage( approx) spotted damage 4500(approx).

 

Now please tell me.

 

Which was the MVP of the battle?

Which scored most of the damage?

Which spotted entire enemy team?

Which assisted more in damage by spotting?

Which manage to stay alive, despite 0 armor?

 

Have a good day. 

 

Attached Files

  • Attached File   ScreenHunter_119 Jan. 05 17.55.jpg   451.64K
  • Attached File   ScreenHunter_121 Jan. 05 17.55.jpg   439.89K
  • Attached File   ScreenHunter_122 Jan. 05 18.16.jpg   457.52K

Edited by Greek_Jedi_Knight, 05 January 2020 - 05:33 PM.


azakow #2 Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:32 PM

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OMG you again.

:popcorn:



ValkyrionX_TV #3 Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:36 PM

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so the ebr is op because he played better than the others? L   O   L 

 

The 279e in certain conditions can be penetrated like butter if the one who is playing it does not have the slightest idea of how the ground and its inclinations affect the front armor of this vehicle, without forgetting that the cupolas of the turret of the 279e can be penetrated with ease without necessarily having to use a tier X gun + special ammo.

 

Your persistence is almost tender.

 

 

 

 

 



Ratriq #4 Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:37 PM

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Sorry, I can only read in English and Swedish. :hiding:

Also, if you're gonna cherrypick 2 games what about this, these 2 games are the 2 most blocked by armor by these tanks in this current update on wotreplays, I'll let the results speak for themself.
Spoiler
Spoiler
If you can't see what's wrong, what I see here is the most heavily armored tank in the game, the Maus, almost getting out-blocked by the 279, remember these two are the current most blocked games by these two tanks currently on WotReplays. The 279 almost out-performed the MAUS with how much dmg it can block.

 

Edited by Ratriq, 05 January 2020 - 05:53 PM.


LethalWalou #5 Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:48 PM

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Still waiting for that replay of the battle where you penned the 279e with AP, twice, frontally. :) Like I said in PMs I'm not calling you a liar or that it didn't happen but all we know you could have been above the enemy, had lucky pen roll or just managed to snipe some part of the armor luckily. Saying that the tank is not OP because you penned it frontally with AP is not proof, especially when you fail to deliver that proof time and time again.

 

And no, I don't want the replay via whatsapp, fb or anything else you suggested. Just upload it to wotreplays.com so we can download it safely and easily from there. I honestly don't know why the reluctance to upload the replay to wotreplays...?


Edited by LethalWalou, 05 January 2020 - 05:49 PM.


Dava_117 #6 Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:56 PM

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Yeh, 1 battle is totally a statistically relevant sample size. :sceptic:

ChristOfTheAbyss #7 Posted 05 January 2020 - 05:57 PM

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Here's my proof. 279e makes its driver win more than his average would normally. EBR105 does too, but not even close the same amount. Most wheels actually makes you win LESS, proving they are UP, not OP.

JocMeister #8 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:01 PM

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View PostGreek_Jedi_Knight, on 05 January 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

I wanted to give more answers, in my previous post, but that thread went out of the point of discussion.

This time i wont speak at all, conclussions are only yours, images speak better.

I have said that 279e is NOT overpowered, can be penned easily, and with AP rounds, and none believed me.

I wanted also to show a video, which i still have.

 

I also stated that as we speak EBR is the most Overpowered tank/vehicle of this game, and here is the truth.

 

Please have a look at these images. I was with my FOCH 155 in this battle.

 

What we see here?

 

We see an 279 which barely reflect 4 or 5 shots, died easily i would say-based on the block damage-but on the other side, who have an EBR  T10, which spotted the entire team, made spot assistance damage 4,5k, while also scored 4,5 and was the TOP caliber of the battle with the highest damage.

 

Watch now this:

Not only this EBR, spotted, entire enemy team, but also was able to stay alive , scored 4500 damage( approx) spotted damage 4500(approx).

 

Now please tell me.

 

Which was the MVP of the battle?

Which scored most of the damage?

Which spotted entire enemy team?

Which assisted more in damage by spotting?

Which manage to stay alive, despite 0 armor?

 

Have a good day. 

 

 

I don´t understand? Are you mad that the Nerva guy played well and had a good game or are you mad you only did 1900 damage in your Foch?

 

Or is this about you failing in your broken and OPed 279?

 

*Confused*



Sweaty_Pants #9 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:03 PM

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People like you are so annoying and actually detrimental to the legitimate reasons people state for buffing/nerfing tanks x,y or z. 

 

They are BOTH massively overpowered.

The difference (the big hugely important difference) is that a numpty in an EBR is most likely to be achieving results far in excess of what they usually would due to the WV's having the dumbest and literally impossible tracking mechanics, the assisted autoaim which is far too powerful (I've had them hit me from over 400m, travelling full speed, whilst I have also been travelling fast (60kph in batchat) and trying to dodge, this is literally impossible for a human to do reliably but these tanks can) and they have exactly zero weaknesses. Lack of armour isn't a weakness as every other light and half the mediums also have no armour; it's a zero argument.

A bad player in the 279e can be easily outplayed by a good player in pretty much anything, but in the hands of a good player it's unpennable and unbeatable. 

 

So what does that mean for the game?

With EBR's It means that those players who are truly, truly terrible will be a genuine threat and danger in battle because even the dumbest of players can spot the entire team and potentially cause huge damage both directly (thanks superaim!) and indirectly because they're keeping everyone spotted whilst avoiding death thanks to the insane speed and impossible tracking mechanics. 

The 279e means that on the rare occasion you see them, the chances are you'll get trashed but you have at least a chance to outplay them but 9/10 they'll be good players anyway; in my opinion this can be good in some ways as it forces you to improve but they're still so rare compared to EBR's as to not worry about it. 

Herein lies the crux, any muppet can get an EBR 105, 90% of the player base will never get a 279e without paying someone to win it for them.

 

What really pisses me off is that WV's can be fixed in ultra easy and simple ways:

- same tracking mechanics as anything else

- standard autoaim

Keep the speed and agility, its their niche, but make sure they cannot just rush into an enemy base, shred 3 arty and 2 lights without ever losing a single hit point and getting away scott free. Due to their massive potential I'd even suggest increasing the activation time of 6th sense for them to 50% so they can rush in but it's a bigger risk and requires more skill and awareness to make the most of it.

 

This is why you make things worse OP, no analysis, no suggestions, just whining and bitching. Be constructive and maybe everyone wont treat you with disdain and contempt.


Edited by Rustybum, 05 January 2020 - 06:04 PM.


LethalWalou #10 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:06 PM

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View PostJocMeister, on 05 January 2020 - 05:01 PM, said:

 

I don´t understand? Are you mad that the Nerva guy played well and had a good game or are you mad you only did 1900 damage in your Foch?

 

Or is this about you failing in your broken and OPed 279?

 

*Confused*

 

Pretty much yes to every one of those.

 

Also noticed that he sorted the post game results so that the EBR was on top and the 279 in the middle, as to give an impression that the 279 played badly and that it's a bad tank, but in reality the 279 was 3rd on exp, only behind the EBR and 705A. I wonder how many minutes he tried to make it look like this and then figured he can sort the names on reverse order to get the EBR on top without having to sort by exp :P


Edited by LethalWalou, 05 January 2020 - 06:07 PM.


ChristOfTheAbyss #11 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:09 PM

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View PostRustybum, on 05 January 2020 - 06:03 PM, said:

People like you are so annoying and actually detrimental to the legitimate reasons people state for buffing/nerfing tanks x,y or z. 

 

They are BOTH massively overpowered.

The difference (the big hugely important difference) is that a numpty in an EBR is most likely to be achieving results far in excess of what they usually would due to the WV's having the dumbest and literally impossible tracking mechanics, the assisted autoaim which is far too powerful (I've had them hit me from over 400m, travelling full speed, whilst I have also been travelling fast (60kph in batchat) and trying to dodge, this is literally impossible for a human to do reliably but these tanks can) and they have exactly zero weaknesses. Lack of armour isn't a weakness as every other light and half the mediums also have no armour; it's a zero argument.

A bad player in the 279e can be easily outplayed by a good player in pretty much anything, but in the hands of a good player it's unpennable and unbeatable. 

 

So what does that mean for the game?

With EBR's It means that those players who are truly, truly terrible will be a genuine threat and danger in battle because even the dumbest of players can spot the entire team and potentially cause huge damage both directly (thanks superaim!) and indirectly because they're keeping everyone spotted whilst avoiding death thanks to the insane speed and impossible tracking mechanics. 

The 279e means that on the rare occasion you see them, the chances are you'll get trashed but you have at least a chance to outplay them but 9/10 they'll be good players anyway; in my opinion this can be good in some ways as it forces you to improve but they're still so rare compared to EBR's as to not worry about it. 

Herein lies the crux, any muppet can get an EBR 105, 90% of the player base will never get a 279e without paying someone to win it for them.

 

What really pisses me off is that WV's can be fixed in ultra easy and simple ways:

- same tracking mechanics as anything else

- standard autoaim

Keep the speed and agility, its their niche, but make sure they cannot just rush into an enemy base, shred 3 arty and 2 lights without ever losing a single hit point and getting away scott free. Due to their massive potential I'd even suggest increasing the activation time of 6th sense for them to 50% so they can rush in but it's a bigger risk and requires more skill and awareness to make the most of it.

 

This is why you make things worse OP, no analysis, no suggestions, just whining and bitching. Be constructive and maybe everyone wont treat you with disdain and contempt.

 

EBR isnt OP, like I said earlier. It does not increase the winrate of the player enough, to be called OP. Simple as that. 

 

// Also, the locking does not help to hit you any more than autoaim helps any other tank... Learn how the game works before you complain about it. 


Edited by ChristOfTheAbyss, 05 January 2020 - 06:11 PM.


BR33K1_PAWAH #12 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:14 PM

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View PostGreek_Jedi_Knight, on 05 January 2020 - 07:25 PM, said:

Please have a look at these images. I was with my FOCH 155 in this battle.

 

The fact that you think that result of ONE battle can be used to make a judgement on a balance issue already shows how shallow is your understanding of this subject.

To make assessment of a tank being unbalanced or not normal people use server-wide statistics, which reflect tank performance across hundreds and hundres of players in thousands of battles.

And you show us a singular event as basis of your argument.

Don't you see how this is laughable?

 

 



Sweaty_Pants #13 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:19 PM

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View PostChristOfTheAbyss, on 05 January 2020 - 06:09 PM, said:

 

EBR isnt OP, like I said earlier. It does not increase the winrate of the player enough, to be called OP. Simple as that. 

 

// Also, the locking does not help to hit you any more than autoaim helps any other tank... Learn how the game works before you complain about it. 

 

Win rate isn't everything and you simply cannot base everything on it. If read what I said, it massively increases the impact of a very bad player whereas no other tank does so to this extent. 

Also, if what you say about the autoaim being identical, it's not at all when they vastly superior aimtimes and also better soft stats on gun handling. Combine the lot and it makes a significant difference. 

What is it with people like you who are utterly incapable of looking past the one obvious thing and including all mitigating factors? :confused:



BR33K1_PAWAH #14 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:24 PM

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View PostRustybum, on 05 January 2020 - 08:19 PM, said:

 

Win rate isn't everything and you simply cannot base everything on it. If read what I said, it massively increases the impact of a very bad player whereas no other tank does so to this extent. 

 

What you talk about people usually call "game-breaking", as it doesn't line-up with overall gameplay flow.

But when we talk about a tank being "overpowered" we usually mean that this tank inflates winrate of players which are using it - meaning that across the board players have more wins with that tank than they have on average.

The concept of a tank being overpowered is in fact tied to winrate.



ChristOfTheAbyss #15 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:34 PM

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View PostRustybum, on 05 January 2020 - 06:19 PM, said:

 

Win rate isn't everything and you simply cannot base everything on it. If read what I said, it massively increases the impact of a very bad player whereas no other tank does so to this extent. 

Also, if what you say about the autoaim being identical, it's not at all when they vastly superior aimtimes and also better soft stats on gun handling. Combine the lot and it makes a significant difference. 

What is it with people like you who are utterly incapable of looking past the one obvious thing and including all mitigating factors? :confused:

 

Winrate defines performance. Tank cannot be OP if it doesnt enhance performance. 

 

If YOU read what I said, playing EBR does NOT increase the impact of a very bad player, if it did, it would show in increase of a that players winrate. 

 

A lot of OP tanks does that far better than EBR/wheels does, to name some, 279e, 430U, 268-4 etc. 

 

What is with these people completely ignoring facts, as in winrate and tanks affect on it, and going with just calling it OP just because they cant hit it and get shot by it?

 

// Thanks Breeks.


Edited by ChristOfTheAbyss, 05 January 2020 - 06:35 PM.


Sweaty_Pants #16 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:42 PM

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View PostChristOfTheAbyss, on 05 January 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

 

Winrate defines performance. Tank cannot be OP if it doesnt enhance performance. 

 

If YOU read what I said, playing EBR does NOT increase the impact of a very bad player, if it did, it would show in increase of a that players winrate. 

 

A lot of OP tanks does that far better than EBR/wheels does, to name some, 279e, 430U, 268-4 etc. 

 

What is with these people completely ignoring facts, as in winrate and tanks affect on it, and going with just calling it OP just because they cant hit it and get shot by it?

 

// Thanks Breeks.

It clearly does. Just because they dont go on to win doesn't negate an increased impact of that player. I guarantee if you looked at the average dmg, assistance and xp of very bad players using it they would have a significant increase. And you're still ignoring the other facts that in the hands of a good players they literally are gamebreaking which the OP has shown in his usual, not very helpful way. 



ChristOfTheAbyss #17 Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:58 PM

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View PostRustybum, on 05 January 2020 - 06:42 PM, said:

It clearly does. Just because they dont go on to win doesn't negate an increased impact of that player. I guarantee if you looked at the average dmg, assistance and xp of very bad players using it they would have a significant increase. And you're still ignoring the other facts that in the hands of a good players they literally are gamebreaking which the OP has shown in his usual, not very helpful way. 

 

If impact increases, winrate increases. Simple as that. If winrate does NOT increase, what they did was not impactful for the outcome of the game. 

 

Gamebreaking does not mean the same as OP. Arty is gamebreaking, is not OP. British 183 guns are gamebreaking, are not OP. And so on and so on. 

 

Checked one random persons, who was reading this thread, EBR stats and they were faaar worse than their average around 50% WR performance. 



tajj7 #18 Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:13 PM

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Let's leave aside they did the same damage for a minute, the EBR player is a 3k overall WN8 player, who has 4k wn8 recents.

 

That guy literally averages 4,8k DPG from 100 games in the Leo PTA.

 

He has 9 tier 10 tanks in which he averages over 4k damage per game in, this is his last 1k battles - 

 

Posted Image

 

I don't think the EBR 105 stands out particularly there at all, if anything he's a little underperforming if you look at his WRs in the likes of the 260 and PTA. 

 

What you have shown is NOT that the EBR is OP, but that you had a very good player on your team and that very good player surprisingly had a good game. Actually not just a good player, based on those recents probably one of the best performing players on the server currently, I mean that PTA performance is just out of this world. 


Edited by tajj7, 05 January 2020 - 08:14 PM.


JocMeister #19 Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:32 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 05 January 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Let's leave aside they did the same damage for a minute, the EBR player is a 3k overall WN8 player, who has 4k wn8 recents.

 

That guy literally averages 4,8k DPG from 100 games in the Leo PTA.

 

He has 9 tier 10 tanks in which he averages over 4k damage per game in, this is his last 1k battles - 

 

Posted Image

 

I don't think the EBR 105 stands out particularly there at all, if anything he's a little underperforming if you look at his WRs in the likes of the 260 and PTA. 

 

What you have shown is NOT that the EBR is OP, but that you had a very good player on your team and that very good player surprisingly had a good game. Actually not just a good player, based on those recents probably one of the best performing players on the server currently, I mean that PTA performance is just out of this world. 

 

4,8k DPG in the PTA. :amazed:



tajj7 #20 Posted 05 January 2020 - 08:34 PM

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View PostJocMeister, on 05 January 2020 - 07:32 PM, said:

 

4,8k DPG in the PTA. :amazed:

 

Forget that, nearly 2.7k in the Panther 88 is the real achievement there, probably one of the worst tier for tier tanks in the game right now. 






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