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EBR, 279. Which is OP and which is not? My truth with photos.


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chainreact0r #41 Posted 06 January 2020 - 02:17 PM

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While the OP gets his post across in an almost barbaric manner, there is a point to be made here.

I've said this before, the 279 is op but not quite as op as people think it is.

 

While it's true that it can roflstomp lower tiers and people who refuse to shoot gold, there are many situations where you are gonna be locked down into passive play.

 

If there is a high pen TD (E4,foch 155, jageroo etc) sitting somewhere in the back you are forced to hide. There is simply nothing to be done, no way of engaging them since they will autopen you no matter what. The tank can't sidescrape like normal heavies can due to the side weakspot, and there is no way in hell you can angle the upper plate in such a way that TD gold won't chew right through.

There is also the problem of 60TP, E-100, PZ7 and 705A 46% trash who spam HE and there is nothing you can do about that, except hope that you can gold focus them faster than they can drain your hp or run out of HE. FV's also fall in this category, however they are a bit more predictable and you can play around them. There is no way of predicting a heavy is a bot who will drive to the heavy flank with HE preloaded and what feels like infinite HE ammo.

In these situations, if there is one of the mentioned tank on the flank you chose at the start you are basically locked down. You can either play passively and wait patiently for your moves (in which case the tank's unique advantages are nullified and it becomes as good/bad as any other heavium, except you will still get focused), or try to leave the flank which most of the times doesn't work cause you are too slow. You either can't escape due to map design, or if you escape your team melted without your support(which you couldn't offer since your armor was unusable in the first place) and you will just get overrun.

 

Also, due to the tank's own reputation, there will be many jealous people just yoloing you, especially autoloaders which will do at least 1.2k dmg basically for free (at the cost of their own lives, but that doesn't say much) and leave you crippled for the entire battle. The tank is also extremely vulnerable to face hugging especially from the likes of IS-7, 430U etc. The tables have just turned since you can't pen them and they will pen your upper plate with AP with ease.

 

Let's not even mention multiple arties on open maps where you can go f yourself since all arties will focus you (rightfully so since you are clearly the most dangerous target).

 

One of the few viable things you can do in these situations is sit at the 2nd line and play like a hull down support, but even then you are severely limited since you can't sidescrape, the cupolas are a big weakness, the gun has potato handling and velocity, and people will be even more inclined to fire HE. In a situation like this a 277 would probably perform better since it at least has the speed to get in some cleanup damage.

 

Even the greatest argument for the opness of the tank, aka being able to wedge up a rock and become invincible, kinda falls apart when faced with HE spam and high pen TD's. Plus, most of the time when you see a 279 in a perfect position it's because he is forced to sit there cause if he would push he would be easy to pen. Sometimes holding a flank on your own is enough for your team to win the other side and overwhelm the enemy, but sometimes it certainly isn't. 

 

That is not to say the tank is not OP when in the right situation. But then again which tank isn't? A hulldown E3, a double bushed strv crossfiring, a batchat being released on arties etc.

The winrate curves show that people are dumb enough to not know how to pen a 279 or sit in front of it when it's angled perfectly. Apparantly more situations occur where incompetent enemies allow a 279 to have it's way than situations where a 279 can be easily countered. Judging by my ~370 battles in it, i would say it's about 50/50 whether you get pinned down or you roflstomp.

As ranked showed, when faced by decent players, a 279 is a glorified rock that is excelent at delaying a push and making a dent with it's decent dpm but that is pretty much it since it can't push reliably cause of the unreliable armor on flat ground and it's too slow to relocate efficiently.

 



Greek_Jedi_Knight #42 Posted 07 January 2020 - 09:56 PM

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View Postchainreact0r, on 06 January 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:

While the OP gets his post across in an almost barbaric manner, there is a point to be made here.

I've said this before, the 279 is op but not quite as op as people think it is.

 

While it's true that it can roflstomp lower tiers and people who refuse to shoot gold, there are many situations where you are gonna be locked down into passive play.

 

If there is a high pen TD (E4,foch 155, jageroo etc) sitting somewhere in the back you are forced to hide. There is simply nothing to be done, no way of engaging them since they will autopen you no matter what. The tank can't sidescrape like normal heavies can due to the side weakspot, and there is no way in hell you can angle the upper plate in such a way that TD gold won't chew right through.

There is also the problem of 60TP, E-100, PZ7 and 705A 46% trash who spam HE and there is nothing you can do about that, except hope that you can gold focus them faster than they can drain your hp or run out of HE. FV's also fall in this category, however they are a bit more predictable and you can play around them. There is no way of predicting a heavy is a bot who will drive to the heavy flank with HE preloaded and what feels like infinite HE ammo.

In these situations, if there is one of the mentioned tank on the flank you chose at the start you are basically locked down. You can either play passively and wait patiently for your moves (in which case the tank's unique advantages are nullified and it becomes as good/bad as any other heavium, except you will still get focused), or try to leave the flank which most of the times doesn't work cause you are too slow. You either can't escape due to map design, or if you escape your team melted without your support(which you couldn't offer since your armor was unusable in the first place) and you will just get overrun.

 

Also, due to the tank's own reputation, there will be many jealous people just yoloing you, especially autoloaders which will do at least 1.2k dmg basically for free (at the cost of their own lives, but that doesn't say much) and leave you crippled for the entire battle. The tank is also extremely vulnerable to face hugging especially from the likes of IS-7, 430U etc. The tables have just turned since you can't pen them and they will pen your upper plate with AP with ease.

 

Let's not even mention multiple arties on open maps where you can go f yourself since all arties will focus you (rightfully so since you are clearly the most dangerous target).

 

One of the few viable things you can do in these situations is sit at the 2nd line and play like a hull down support, but even then you are severely limited since you can't sidescrape, the cupolas are a big weakness, the gun has potato handling and velocity, and people will be even more inclined to fire HE. In a situation like this a 277 would probably perform better since it at least has the speed to get in some cleanup damage.

 

Even the greatest argument for the opness of the tank, aka being able to wedge up a rock and become invincible, kinda falls apart when faced with HE spam and high pen TD's. Plus, most of the time when you see a 279 in a perfect position it's because he is forced to sit there cause if he would push he would be easy to pen. Sometimes holding a flank on your own is enough for your team to win the other side and overwhelm the enemy, but sometimes it certainly isn't. 

 

That is not to say the tank is not OP when in the right situation. But then again which tank isn't? A hulldown E3, a double bushed strv crossfiring, a batchat being released on arties etc.

The winrate curves show that people are dumb enough to not know how to pen a 279 or sit in front of it when it's angled perfectly. Apparantly more situations occur where incompetent enemies allow a 279 to have it's way than situations where a 279 can be easily countered. Judging by my ~370 battles in it, i would say it's about 50/50 whether you get pinned down or you roflstomp.

As ranked showed, when faced by decent players, a 279 is a glorified rock that is excelent at delaying a push and making a dent with it's decent dpm but that is pretty much it since it can't push reliably cause of the unreliable armor on flat ground and it's too slow to relocate efficiently.

 

 

Bless your mouth!!!!!

 

Finally!

A guy with common sense and logic.

Well said my friend.

 I have been penned even from SCORPION (T8)with gold ammo frontally.!!!!

 

The majority of people denied what i ve said. I could also upload photos, videos, how easily this 279 is penned. Again, they wouldn't believe me.

Its real weapon if you want my opinion, is the terror that is OP. Same just like my T-22. They rely on auto aim and just fire snapshots without aim, hope to pen it, but thats not the way it goes, not for this, but for any tank ( i have bounced many shells EVEN on arty by firing snapshots without aim). Thats my 96.000 games experience gave me.

If people (lot) had guts to face it in equal terms, they would see is just a myth and nothing else.

All tds penn me easily and without exceptions, even lower tiers tds. 

What i wanted to show to all people which is against me, in fact, is to open their eyes and tell them that this tank is not OP at all.

Its side armor is for laughs, the commanders cupola easily penned.

The real problem of these guys is simply they dont have the patience or the skill to finish the missions to get it and they re getting mad, cause, some missions are indeed quite difficult. I was trying for months to complete them.


Edited by Greek_Jedi_Knight, 07 January 2020 - 10:08 PM.


LethalWalou #43 Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:11 PM

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View PostGreek_Jedi_Knight, on 07 January 2020 - 08:56 PM, said:

 

Bless your mouth!!!!!

 

Finally!

A guy with common sense and logic.

Well said my friend.

 I have been penned even from SCORPION (T8)with gold ammo frontally.!!!!

 

No one is saying that you can't be penned. Just that the likelyhood of getting penned is extremely low because the armor is so good with the absence of a lower plate and weakspots. Type 5 armor sometimes gets penned with tier 8 standard ammo, does that mean that the armor is balanced suddenly? No. 430 U cupola gets sometimes sniped and penned, does that mean that 300 effective armor cupolas are balanced? No.

 

Your whole thought process of what is classified as OP or too good is flawed...

 

And where's the replay you continuously keep promising but never deliver...?



24doom24 #44 Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:50 PM

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View PostGreek_Jedi_Knight, on 07 January 2020 - 08:56 PM, said:

 

Bless your mouth!!!!!

 

Finally!

A guy with common sense and logic.

Well said my friend.

 I have been penned even from SCORPION (T8)with gold ammo frontally.!!!!

 

The majority of people denied what i ve said. I could also upload photos, videos, how easily this 279 is penned. Again, they wouldn't believe me.

Its real weapon if you want my opinion, is the terror that is OP. Same just like my T-22. They rely on auto aim and just fire snapshots without aim, hope to pen it, but thats not the way it goes, not for this, but for any tank ( i have bounced many shells EVEN on arty by firing snapshots without aim). Thats my 96.000 games experience gave me.

If people (lot) had guts to face it in equal terms, they would see is just a myth and nothing else.

All tds penn me easily and without exceptions, even lower tiers tds. 

What i wanted to show to all people which is against me, in fact, is to open their eyes and tell them that this tank is not OP at all.

Its side armor is for laughs, the commanders cupola easily penned.

The real problem of these guys is simply they dont have the patience or the skill to finish the missions to get it and they re getting mad, cause, some missions are indeed quite difficult. I was trying for months to complete them.

If he was above you then of course he was going to pen. Even frontally with 311mm of pen from the Skorp there is 50/50 chance of penning. 

Then again, if there is only a 50% chance of penning through the hull with 311mm gold that says a lot about the tank...


Edited by 24doom24, 07 January 2020 - 10:55 PM.


LethalWalou #45 Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:58 PM

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View PostGreek_Jedi_Knight, on 07 January 2020 - 08:56 PM, said:

 I could also upload photos, videos

 

You keep saying this but you're not delivering... I could also upload photos and videos of real aliens from another galaxy but I'm not gonna bother cause you don't promise to say ''you were right'' when I post them.



_Signal_ #46 Posted 07 January 2020 - 11:43 PM

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tbh you see a lot of these tanks, yes they aren't as OP as people make out especially the 279 but the very fact they are usually like with the 430U/Super Conq/chieftain 4 or 5% higher for the win rates of the bad player than any other tank they own does say something about the "balance" of the tank. 

LZ_Mordan #47 Posted 10 January 2020 - 12:07 AM

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View PostRustybum, on 05 January 2020 - 05:03 PM, said:

People like you are so annoying and actually detrimental to the legitimate reasons people state for buffing/nerfing tanks x,y or z. 

 

They are BOTH massively overpowered.

The difference (the big hugely important difference) is that a numpty in an EBR is most likely to be achieving results far in excess of what they usually would due to the WV's having the dumbest and literally impossible tracking mechanics, the assisted autoaim which is far too powerful (I've had them hit me from over 400m, travelling full speed, whilst I have also been travelling fast (60kph in batchat) and trying to dodge, this is literally impossible for a human to do reliably but these tanks can) and they have exactly zero weaknesses. Lack of armour isn't a weakness as every other light and half the mediums also have no armour; it's a zero argument.

A bad player in the 279e can be easily outplayed by a good player in pretty much anything, but in the hands of a good player it's unpennable and unbeatable. 

 

So what does that mean for the game?

With EBR's It means that those players who are truly, truly terrible will be a genuine threat and danger in battle because even the dumbest of players can spot the entire team and potentially cause huge damage both directly (thanks superaim!) and indirectly because they're keeping everyone spotted whilst avoiding death thanks to the insane speed and impossible tracking mechanics. 

The 279e means that on the rare occasion you see them, the chances are you'll get trashed but you have at least a chance to outplay them but 9/10 they'll be good players anyway; in my opinion this can be good in some ways as it forces you to improve but they're still so rare compared to EBR's as to not worry about it. 

Herein lies the crux, any muppet can get an EBR 105, 90% of the player base will never get a 279e without paying someone to win it for them.

 

What really pisses me off is that WV's can be fixed in ultra easy and simple ways:

- same tracking mechanics as anything else

- standard autoaim

Keep the speed and agility, its their niche, but make sure they cannot just rush into an enemy base, shred 3 arty and 2 lights without ever losing a single hit point and getting away scott free. Due to their massive potential I'd even suggest increasing the activation time of 6th sense for them to 50% so they can rush in but it's a bigger risk and requires more skill and awareness to make the most of it.

 

This is why you make things worse OP, no analysis, no suggestions, just whining and bitching. Be constructive and maybe everyone wont treat you with disdain and contempt.

 all very good points.

 

great post!






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